landroversforever Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I've been doing some work on the Southdown removable towpack/tank guard. I'm now looking at the rear winch mount in more detail and try to get the design tied up and off to the laser cutters! Firstly a few points: Mounting on the SD as its solid and in the right place Winch position in relation to the chassis is fixed as the letterbox is pre cut. The mount needs to be strong in the design.... not because its made of thicker steel than the Titanic! The winch is a Husky (Not going to change unless someone gives me a Gigglepin or Saley for free ) Designing my own as the Standard Husky mounting plate weighs about 10Kg As it is currently, the design weighs 3.3Kg Apologies for the awful pictures of a screen for the models! The following are for information and to show you what I've come up with so far. The following has all be designed in 3mm... It may seem thin to start with but, I'm making some other bits from 700MC Domex. Material recommeded by SimonR for the X-Deflex arms that have received a redesign. It's yeild strength is nearly 3x that of normal mild steel. Yellow line is roughly the centre of the drum. RH edge of the square is the centre of the slot. (Wood is not structural ) Sloping edge is to make winch level on the slope of the SD. The two smaller brackets are to fit between the fairlead mounting holes on the winch and the back of the rear crossmember. The idea is that they are suitably strong in compression to mean that the base of the winch is only really needing to support the weight of the winch and not much in the way of winching forces. hence the reinforcing on the back which will be fully welded along the length. Having thought about this more while writing the thread, I've had another idea I'll model tomorrow before work.... basic gist being to make the two braces into more of a channel by removing the reinforcing and replacing it with a top and bottom side. More thoughts to be added... possibly needs some form of diagonal where the two sides are welded to the southdown? And possibly shrink the side of the main mount, so the mounting bolts for the Near side are the same distance from their side as the opposite ones are to theirs. Should be noted that the width of the slot in the fairlead will be about 2" narrower than the winch drum, and that the Front face of the winch with the original fairlead mounting holes is about 170mm from the inner face of the rear crossmember. Which I should also add is 4mm thick C section. I welcome everyone's input.... except Hybrid_From_Hell... as he will want it made from boiler plate and weigh as much as the moon! . Seriously, I welcome all ideas and criticism. There are a few chosen ones who I would realllllly like their input: SimonR, Steve200tdi, Bishbosh & Cwazywabbit. (I'm sure there were more but my mind has gone blank.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Another thing I forgot to mention or build into the assembly... Strips about 30mm wide with matching holes joining the Winch mount holes over the shorter distance. Again, these would be from 3mm domex. Looking for further weight reduction, I was wondering about an array of maybe ~25mm diameter, dimple died, holes across the main mount top, sides and bracing triangles. However, dimpling 3mm 700MC might prove difficult. Time to make some Dimple dies I think.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Will you be mounting it feet down? You shouldn't need a huge amount of structure in it. On Escape's P38, we just mounted it on a plate between the chassis, and welded some angle iron on the bottom to keep it from twisting. I think it was made from 4mm regular steel. Worked pretty damn well, and also very light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Yeah feet down for the oil level, and then utilising the fairlead mounts for bracing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Yeah feet down for the oil level, and then utilising the fairlead mounts for bracing. From a bracing point of view, I assume Filips was pulling straight from its location? Mine has the disadvantage of leverage as the mount needs to be about 110mm tall at the back edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 A few changes I'd make to improve strength and reduce weight. Add return edges to front and rear of main plate, double up thickness around bolt holes and cut majority in the middle of tray. High quality CAD drawing below should explain it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 I mentioned thickening the material around the bolt holes above, as I'd forgotten to model it. Lips on the front and rear edges I had thought about previously, but missed off the model. I wonder how if chopping the middle out will loose any strength? Ooooo.... Getting fancy now I know, but what about Having the cut-out in the centre, and a folded lip along each edge of the hole? Guess that might just put all the weight back in that the hole would loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 would photo's of my front mounted Husky bumper help ?? winch sits feet down & bolted through bumper to the roller fairlead frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thanks for the kind offer Western . I'm not sure they would as its a complete new fabrication. I had originally planned on using one of the Superwinch mounting plates, but that's far too bit and heavy for my liking so it will be sold on. Still got it for reference if I need it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 just thought I'd ask, no problems, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 From a bracing point of view, I assume Filips was pulling straight from its location? Mine has the disadvantage of leverage as the mount needs to be about 110mm tall at the back edge. Yeah, straight forward. Leverage is indeed an issue, can you tie it in somewhere else? I'm still having a little trouble picturing where it'll sit and mount, could you maybe take a picture from the side? Some pictures here, although I'm not too sure if you can see a lot on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Yeah, straight forward. Leverage is indeed an issue, can you tie it in somewhere else? I'm still having a little trouble picturing where it'll sit and mount, could you maybe take a picture from the side? Some pictures here, although I'm not too sure if you can see a lot on them. Well that is the reason I'll be having brackets of some sort between the back of the crossmember (picking up on the fairlead bolts) and the front face of the winch (picking up on the winches original fairlead bolts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Some areas to ponder: 1. Fold a lip down at the front of the mounting plate and up at the back - keeps the unrestrained edge in tension rather than compression. 2. Whilst the Domex steel may be stronger than mild, it is not going to be appreciably stiffer ( similar / same Young's modulus) for the same thickness and flex in a mounting is a killer for winches.So concentrate on getting stiffness into the design. 3. At a guess I would say it is unlikely you will benefit from the extra strength of the Domex due to point 2. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 I wonder then if it's worth making the triangles underneath as part of the folded edges? I can't make the rear fold upwards, as it would foul on the husky's gearbox. I hadn't looked at the Young's modulus to be honest... Just assumed it would be stilffer as the yield strength is much higher? So more force needed for permanent deflection? (Or have I remembered that completely wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Permanent deflection won't be what kills the winch though, if it can flex while winching you'll eat up the gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 I know that, but remember all the husky gearing is self supported, I don't think as critical as a normal low-line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 That said, I still don't want flex of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 Dragging this back up from the depths as I'm working on this bit at the moment! I'm currently experimenting with the braces between the back of the crossmember and the front of the winch. Exploring a couple of options for the braces (one each side bolting with the fairlead bolt each end and the fairlead holes on the winch), either billet aluminium ones or a fabricated steel version. Billet aluminium one is the only one I've modeled so far and is coming out with about 0.6mm of deflection under load. I'm working on a 10T (metric) load. A rough figure I pulled from my derriere, as the winch will be most likely having a Bow2 motor fitted to replace the rather manky standard one. That's modeled without any of the winch mount support so I think that should be OK? Input is always welcome if anyone has any questions or comments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 I was also wondering if adding an array of dimples to the winch mount whether it would stiffen it up all over without weakening it? Bearing in mind the majority, if not all of the winch forces will be taken by the spacers/brace bits to the rear crossmember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 As above, a return along each longer length would increase the stiffness dramatically. I would add the gussets into this as one piece. Cutting out a big square hole in the middle and adding in returns in all 4 edges (using a filler piece to tie the corners together) would add , ore stiffness weight whilst opening up the option to reduce plate thickness (stress concentration permitting) With regards to the fairlead brace brackets, I would consider moving the angle stiffeners to the inside face of the brackets rather than the outside. There is currently nothing stopping the brackets squish at each end where the bends are if that makes sense. How does the bracket mount to the tank guard thing? Looks a neat solution so far. And good to see someone designing in strength rather than using 10 mm plate for everything. Cough, nige, cough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 The braces to the rear cross member won't be anything like the pictures further up.... That was for initial ideas. They'll more than likely end up as billet aluminium blocks, with pockets for access and weight removal. (They're currently about 500g each and 0.6mm max deflection with a 10t compressive load on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 The bracket will be welded to the rank guard, full seam weld down each side. With the hole in the middle of the mount I need to be careful about access underneath for winch removal, I'll have a look at what space I've got. I'm thinking that two folded lips and 1 welded ones might be best rather than arson about with fiddly corner bits. 3mm is my current thought for the material and by dimpling all over the mount I should add significant stiffness to the design (I think my dimples stick out roughly 3-4mm IIRC). Thanks mikey, I hate the mentality that to make something strong it has to be made from crazy thick material! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Nige ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Nige ? Nige 'Boiler plate' Barker! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The man who would make a serving tray out of 10mm plate... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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