paul mc Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Hi Guys, After neglecting my RRC project vehicle for far too long i want to bring it back into service. During the original build i carried out a compression test which showed the compression to be an OK 140-150psi, but i have since noticed that I am still getting quite lot of pressure in the crankcase so the rings are obviously on the way out. Over the years I have done new 3.9 camshaft (and valves, springs, etc) but have never really given the engine a good rebuild. So, this time while I am changing the rings i plan to carry out any other few jobs I can while i am in the engine. The bodywork is all off (its a Series 3 hybrid so the wings etc pop off in minutes). There is also a lot of oil on the floor wherever i go so I will change sump gaskets, but what other seals or gaskets should be changed as a matter of routine? And can i do these with the engine in the car, albeit with very good access all around? I plan to change rings, head gasket and valley gasket fit ARP head stud kit (as this will be the second time i have head the heads off) Oil sump gasket and sump plug washer Any other recommendations greatly appreciated. Thanks, Paul 1987 RRC 3.5 V8 flapper with Series 3 bodywork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Shells, especially if there's any sign of the copper showing through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mc Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 Shells, especially if there's any sign of the copper showing through Good idea, the big ends will be easy as the pistons are coming out anyway but is there enough clearance to do the crank bearings while it is still in the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Sort of, but not really, the rear one especially is difficult. TBH, if I were doing that amount of disassembly, it's not much more work to pull the lump out! then you can do a proper job, rather than lying on the ground with oil dribbling in your ear hole every few minutes Measure bore wear when rings are out, I forget the limits (3 thou springs to mind though?) If they are worn, then you are wasting your time putting new rings in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash.Witty Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 You say you've done a bit of work, but have the heads ever been off? Are they on pressed tin or composite gaskets? As the tin head gaskets are notorious for blowing into the valley. Have you done a compression test since? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mc Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 You say you've done a bit of work, but have the heads ever been off? Are they on pressed tin or composite gaskets? As the tin head gaskets are notorious for blowing into the valley. Have you done a compression test since? Yes, I have had the heads off once before and replaced the tin gasket with a tin gasket. I just did a compression test on the weekend and the numbers are around the 140-150 mark with a good increase of circa 30psi when oil is added, so along with crankcase pressure i am happy enough the rings are worn (also it is a 170k miles engine!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mc Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 Sort of, but not really, the rear one especially is difficult. TBH, if I were doing that amount of disassembly, it's not much more work to pull the lump out! then you can do a proper job, rather than lying on the ground with oil dribbling in your ear hole every few minutes Measure bore wear when rings are out, I forget the limits (3 thou springs to mind though?) If they are worn, then you are wasting your time putting new rings in. I am not averse to removing the engine if it means i can do things which i can not do with it in the car, but i can let the oil drain for a week with the sump pan off so i'm not worried about a few drops of oil in the ear'ole. But as I do not have an engine stand it will be another £50 for a single use so I would rather avoid it if it does not benefit me except being a bit more comfortable. As it is dripping oil in so many places are there any seals i can only replace with the engine out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
task Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 As Bowie69 says, pull the engine! Chances are the rings are just gunked up so would probably benefit from being removed and the pistons cleaned then re-fitted. If you're going to change the rings you need to glaze bust the bores so the new rings bed correctly. If you're pulling the engine I would do the following; Check core plugs, replace if required rear oil seal - only replaceable with engine out front oil seal mains big ends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Add to the list re-face the oil pump. You don't need an engine stand for this kind of work, the lump only gets really heavy once you have the crank in and heads back on -so do the bottom end, leaves the heads off, and refit block to car, then refit heads. If you have an engine hoist then you can just work on it like that, if you take the heads off first then hang it from the block you can get really good access, granted not as easy as a stand, but perfectly doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Just to say that you can change the big ends with the engine in the car. I did so on my last classic. And my pistons were still in! It's in the thread in the members section somewhere. I will link to it later when I have time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Crack all the bolt's first if you're going to lift it. My engine stand won't take cracking off head bolts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 As said above, pull out the engine, and do the core plugs, oil pump, clutch and other details. If you don't, you'll be back at the engine in a short while kicking yourself for not doing it all when you had the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mc Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 As said above, pull out the engine, and do the core plugs, oil pump, clutch and other details. If you don't, you'll be back at the engine in a short while kicking yourself for not doing it all when you had the chance. Thanks foer all the useful info guys, I will add core plugs to the shopping list and reface the oil pump and replace gear. What should i be checking of the core plugs to see if they need replacing or are they so basic i should just do them anyway? I should have said it is an auto so i dont need to do the clutch but anything inside the auto i should do with the engine out? I serviced it with a new filter screen etc a few hundred miles ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I have only heard that it's important to keep the torque converter from shifting when pulling out the engine so that it doesn't damage a seal behind it - that's only theoretical to me, though. Core plugs should just be replaced because you never know what they look like on the coolant side and you wouldn't want one to let go after you've put the engine back in. There's also a plug at the back of the camshaft that it known to fall out. I peened the metal around the one on mine. No doubt there are weird electrical items that need cleaning up and so on, too. When I did my Rangie, I also went to a lot of effort to put Dynamat Xtreme all over the bulkhead behind the engine, with some heat shields made from ACL heat shield material near the exhaust manifolds. That helped a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mc Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Thanks for all of the advice, I've ordered everything suggested including the Dynamat Xtreme as any sound deadening at all will be welcome. I have removed the engine today and will have it on an engine stand i picked up for £25 on ebay from nearby. Wish me luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Good luck! It will all be worth it for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Just trying to post a photo for you . . . You really need to go nuts with the Dynamat and cover everything possible. You also need to squeeze out every air pocket, which will mean poking some holes in them if need be. I made paper templates first and then cut the Dynamat after, which was much easier than trying to cut and trim the Dynamat. I also wore rubber gloves as the adhesive can get everywhere. In some areas, lots of smaller, overlapping pieces are easier than one big piece. It took me hours and hours of work in awful Wet season conditions, (really hot and really humid), but it has been very worthwhile. In fact, the next hurdle is to get the aircon built and running so I can close the windows and keep all the noise out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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