rekab69 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Hi Guys, I want to run a 3 phase ring roller on singe phase, the motor is 1.5kw, it's a 2003 machine... There are rotary converters £££'s, home built ones that run an idler motor...???, £79.00 electronic ones on eBay.. just want a plug & play set up, the machine runs forward & reverse pedals. I did think about changing the motor but it goes into a gearbox type set up and looks like a tin of worms waiting to be opened.. Any advice...? Cheers, db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Electronic inverters work well, but you get what you pay for. For 79 quid you take your chances, the ebay chinese stuff can be rubbish or acceptable.. You would be looking at about 500 quid up for a professional quality 1.5kW (2hp) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supaimpy Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I bought one of the 'chinese' inverters, so far not been able to get a tune out of it, so I've gone down the route of changing the motor to 1ph., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superpants Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I know it's not quite plug and play, but I have had good luck buying a used inverter from ebay and wiring it up in an enclosure. I paid less than £50 for an almost new Omron unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondjeremy Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I've got one on my 4 post lift which has worked nicely for 6 or 7 years. I bought mine of a specialist on e-bay - and apparently the thing has to be matched to the motor to get the best. Use on 4 post lifts is quite common so that wasn't a problem. What happens if its not carefully matched - I don't know. I think mine is Taco or something which may have been Siemens in a former life. The instructions were terrible and we had to speak to the supplier to get it set correctly - great fun when you can't get a phone signal!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I have a 3hp mill and 2 inverters. One is a Hong long (or something like that) £90 jobbie. it ran the motor at a fixed 50hz ok but you had to have it a mile away from the cnc electronics otherwise the machine went haywire. The radio didn't always like it either. I also have a drives direct taco £500 jobbie and it sits in the cabinet with the electronics no problem. For what you want the Hong long would probably do the job fine. I kept it incase I ever bought a 3ph saw or lathe or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 We run a few inverters (VFD's) on the lathe / mill. All made by Teco and no complaints. We don't have an amazing power supply due to where our workshop is but they work fine. Drives direct in Nottingham is where i've bought from before (via phone / ebay). G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekab69 Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 Thanks for all your replies guys, all good advice... Drives Direct have good feed back I'll give them a bell in the week.. Thanks again... db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Check if the motor is wound with both star and delta windings brought out to the terminal box before buying an inverter. If it's 400v star/230v delta you're in luck. If it's 400v only, you'll either need a vfd with a step-up transformer or will be in field weakening above 29Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 You do get 415v VFD's (I have one!). The best bet is buy a used one from a known brand - Siemens, Omron, Hitachi etc. You can pretty much guarantee it will do what it says on the tin. My current one is Siemens, 5Hp but I had a Hitachi one before that was 230v out and it was very good! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Is that 5hp single phase in 3 phase out? We have big vfds at work to control the 3ph motors but obviously they're on a 3ph supply, I didn't realise you could get a 5hp 3ph motor to run on single phase... no wonder you've had to go to LED lighting otherwise you'd be working in the dark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 It's 5Hp (which is only 16A @ 230V) in at 230v and 415v 3 Phase out. The trip on the front is fused at 30A - so I guess it peaks at closer to 10Hp Most 3ph VFDs just rectify the 3 phase into DC then chop it up into 3 phase - thus you can feed 230V into two of the phase inputs. (this applies to a lot of 3 Phase kit, including my Plasma Cutter) I have a 100A Single phase supply to my workshop and a 180A house fuse. When I bought my Interact Mill, it said it was 4.7Hp - so I bought a chunky phase converter. The motor is rated at 4Hp though most of the time it draws under 1Hp - until you hit the big red 'OF' button - then it draws everything it's got to stop the spindle including applying the brake. I tuned it down a bit because it was tripping the VFD - but it still stops alarmingly quickly. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I set mine to come to a stop naturally because I though it might overload something as well as come upto speed quite slowly, it's only 3HP but somehow running 3ph on 1ph didn't sit right, the shed is on a 32a supply for everything, obviously I was just being not man enough I hated power electronics at college, looking at wiggly graphs with your hand in an arthritic pose working out what happens when something behind something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I've got an Allen Bradley inverter - bought from Drives Direct. Had it for 9 years? Still works fine and does what is says on the tin. 230V single phase in, 3 phase 415V out. 7.5 HP. I'd use Drives Direct again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekab69 Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 Spoke to Drives Direct today, very helpful, went ahead and ordered a unit from them... Played around with my motor for fun yesterday changed it's wiring from star to delta and had it running on 230v with just the aid of an old capacitor out of a florescent light fitting.. Felt I needed a little bit more control though.. db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I would also vote for drivesdirect. I spoke to them about powering a 3hp Harrison lathe and it has worked fine for several years. One point for anyone else considering this: If you can wire direct to the motor then a 3HP converter will run a 3HP motor (a bit extra capacity might be god though), motor have a start up surge but wiring direct allows the motor to be started gently over long time, speed and direction can then be controlled from the converters control panel or remote station. The down side is the origional machine controls no longer function, if you are good with electronics you can probable wire them back to the controller and make things work, unfortuanetly I am not!. The converters also have what they cal plug and play mode, in this mode you can wire up to the origional wiring of the machine and even set up a ring main if you have several machines to power, sounds good but there is a but. In this mode the converter must be capable of provifing the start up surge, in my case for a 3 HP motor I was adviced a 10HP converter, as you can guess this cost a lot more!. I went with his advice and everything has worked fine, did get a profesional electrician in to wire everything up (make sure they know about 3 phase!) who made a good job of it all. I am currently looking at upgrading the Harrison 300 to a Colchester Triumph 2000 this is a 7.5HP motor but is a clutched lathe, with the 300 to stop or reverse the lathe the motor is stopped and reversed each time resulting in a high start up load, with the Triumph the motor runs all the time steadily and clutches are used to stop and reverse direction, this means I will be able to use the same converter but wire direct to the motor and utilise the soft start function to start the motor with no load on it then use the clutches to contol the lathe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I removed the wiring on my colchester student and have wired in the VFD through the original switches (the vfd uses 24v to switch), so have the normal on / off and forward / reverse functions. On the mill it can be done using a lot of contactors, but instead i've just gone for a couple additional toggle switches. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 My teco (drives direct) 3hp is wired direct to the motor. It has soft start and stop and I put remote controls on instead of using the standard as it gave more control. It has forward and reverse via a toggle switch, variable speed via a pot and and E stop (i assume its soft) all very easy to wire back to the inverter, I just pinched a couple of meters of shielded multi core cable from work. Theres a sensor on the motor which picks up RPM and feeds it back to mach3 which at some point I will move to the spindle so it gives spindle rpm rather than motor. I'm sure you could get the same thing for a manual lathe and pickup somewhere off the output shaft but with a display otherwise the variable speed becomes a bit awkward to use. I have the orrible hong long 3hp inverter setup to output at a constant 50Hz with a 3ph socket attached to it incase I ever want to run anything. We have a Colchester Triumph 2000 at work, it's a fair sized machine I'd be impressed if it ran ok on single phase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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