IVA - vehicles over 10 years exempt

[Rightfoot]

I have already checked this with Admin as I know IVA is a contentious issue.

According to the latest update on 10th October on the Government website all vehicles over 10 years old are exempt from any IVA:

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exemptions-from-vehicle-approval

2. Exemptions from vehicle approval

You don’t need vehicle approval for:

• heavy goods vehicles (more than 3,500kg maximum weight) over 25 years old
• light goods vehicles (3,500kg maximum weight or less) over 10 years old
• cars and minibuses with 8 passenger seats or less (not including the driver) over 10 years old

At this point I shall step back, but I hope this is a useful for some folks!

[Bowie69]

That... is marvellous news.

I have read it, and followed all the links off out and it does seem to check out, nice find Rightfoot!

Will make my life a lot easier with my old Morris Traveller

[L19MUD]

I shall stop all the sleepless nights I was having re my bobtailed Rangie...!!

[Bowie69]

Have mailed VOSA to absolutely confirm BTW, but as usual they aren't as clear they could be

[Tetsu0san]

19 minutes ago, L19MUD said:

I shall stop all the sleepless nights I was having re my bobtailed Rangie...!!

Sorry to be a bit of a knob, but an IVA was for a vehicle that had been modified in some way? So if you made a trayback and chopped off the chassis at the back you would have had to have an IVA test before? This ruling, if true, would negate this?

[CwazyWabbit]

That's amazing, but I can't help wondering what the motivation is for them

 

[Tal]

When I spoke to DVLA about my disco 1 conversion they said as long as I was only changing the body work I just needed MOT it and then send them a picture  or two so they could check and make sure it wasnt subject to change of use. I don't think I told them how old it was though.

[Red8eard]

Been this way for a while i believe, Still believe you need a report done for major mods but least no hassle.

[WesBrooks]

Is this vehicles that were modified over 10 years ago won't need IVA, or vehicles older than 10 years old won't need an IVA if modified? Guess there must be some limits such as the points system? i.e. if you loose to many points to retain the old registration you need IVA?

[Tal]

they said mine was ok because i wasnt changing the chassis or engine

[WesBrooks]

That's my current understanding too. Additions to the chassis is a grey area as there was something on the now defunct ACE site that indicate that you could add to the chassis, but not remove. I had heard of a modifications older than clause, but it wasn't relevant to me so didn't read into it further.

[WesBrooks]

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/overview

This indicates that a major changes vehicles should be registered. If you can't show you've used an unmodified or new replacement chassis and 2 other major parts then there is a significant chance you would need type approval test which is the IVA.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

9 minutes ago, WesBrooks said:

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/overview

This indicates that a major changes vehicles should be registered. If you can't show you've used an unmodified or new replacement chassis and 2 other major parts then there is a significant chance you would need type approval test which is the IVA.

 

Yet it still doesn't say when section 5 or 8 applies, if either.

 

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/rebuilt-vehicles

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles

 

What is the difference between 'rebuilt' and 'radically altered'?

[Bowie69]

Yup, hence my email to vosa.

[GW8IZR]

As with all these changes it will take some interpretation to be sure. 

On the basis that the requirement doesn't seem to have changed I read it as: if your vehicle doesn't need an IVA you don't need to IVA it to prove it.

It shouldn't make much difference as something like a modified chassis ( shortened or not to OEM spec etc ) still seems to need IVA no matter how old the vehicle is.

Reason for change, I suspect its similar to the now removed VIC .. it wasn't having any effect, just an admin burden. Crooks were not being caught as they never presented the ringers for checking.

It will be interesting to see how this develops.

[twodoorgaz]

On 17 October 2016 at 4:45 PM, WesBrooks said:

That's my current understanding too. Additions to the chassis is a grey area as there was something on the now defunct ACE site that indicate that you could add to the chassis, but not remove. I had heard of a modifications older than clause, but it wasn't relevant to me so didn't read into it further.

Yes the Q&A that the ACE did with the VOSA policy team was absolutely brilliant. You never seem to see anyone referencing it, when it is pretty damn clear when applied to a LR chassis re: what you can do and what you can't. I hope I'm not in breach of any forum rules here - I've always avoided discussing SVA/IVA.

 

If only someone copied it before the ACE site went down...

 

Oh wait - someone did. All of the following is information gained by ACE when questioning VOSA on what constitutes a 'modified chassis':

 

"Quote

Chassis and Monocoque Modification

VOSA Clarification on Body/Chassis points rules

Some of you will have taken the time to find the rules that govern how much you are allowed to modify your vehicle before its identity is called into question.

Whilst the 8 points system has been in place for at least 27 years (in its current form) DVLA have been sadly remiss in making the guidelines relating to car modifying known to those that it affects.

We will shortly be adding articles to show how the system works in relation to various vehicles but this is the description as published by DVLA.

Rebuilt vehicle 8 points system: -

An existing vehicle uses a similar system: -

The guidelines shown above are not specific about their application.

ACE have attempted to clarify certain areas that go to the very root of a car's identity, and how much you are allowed to modify the chassis or monococque, before you lose the 5 points it represents.

We have been liasing with both DVLA and VOSA to clarify this area.

Initially we received this reply from DVLA:

"When assessing a modified/rebuilt vehicle, DVLA's main interest is to establish whether the original identity has been compromised by the changes made. If a vehicle has been modified from the original manufacturer's specification or if not enough of the original components have been retained in the build, the vehicle identity will change and IVA will be required to register with an alternative registration number.

Due to the very nature of rebuilding or modifying vehicles from their original manufacturer's specification, DVLA assesses each vehicle on its own merits based on the documentary evidence provided and a physical inspection of the vehicle.

The INF 26 information leaflet, and the information given on the website, is issued as a guideline to the registration of rebuilt, radically altered or kit converted vehicles. They are not meant as technical guides. However, both clearly indicate that if modifications are made to the chassis or monocoque bodyshell, or if the build does not include enough original, major components (as listed) the identity of the vehicle will change.
The information on www.direct.gov.uk is regularly reviewed to reflect changes in legislation

VOSA have provided the following response to your questions;

Chassis.

Q) What is classed as chassis? Is it purely the outer longitudinal rails or are the crossmembers between these also a part of the chassis?

A) Chassis should be taken to include crossmembers.

Q) We know that cutting or shortening a chassis is classed as modification but is this relative to the vehicle wheelbase i.e. the chassis must remain uncut between the 2 axles but anything forward of front or aft of rear suspension mounts can be removed?

A) Chassis includes the full original length of the longitudinal members including to the front of the front axle and to the rear of the rear axle.

Q) Is it acceptable to remove bodymounts, which contribute no strength to the chassis when changing a body to a different style /make?

A) Yes, providing they are additional to and are not an integral part of the chassis structure.

Q) Is it acceptable to strengthen a chassis by the addition of boxing plates a process that involves turning a 3-sided open chassis rail into a fully enclosed 'box' chassis?

A) Yes, providing the original structure remains unchanged.

Monococque.

Q) What is the definition of a monococque ?

A) A design in which body and chassis are all one unit.

Q) Why does cutting into a monococque affect the vehicle identity if it retains the same shape /profile as before.

A) Cutting is considered to be modifying the vehicle from its original specification. Any modification to the chassis/monocoque body is considered to render the vehicle no longer original specification or of original identity.

Q) Is it acceptable to modify a vehicle bulkhead and/or transmission tunnel when performing an engine change or fitting another make?

A) No, Assuming this is in relation to a monocoque structure. This would be considered a modification to the structure.

Q) Is it acceptable to fully weld sections that are spot-welded as part of the original construction methods, to increase the strength of the body?

A) Yes, providing the original structure is retained.

ACE felt that further clarification was needed from VOSA so we sent more questions.

The following responses are from the VOSA Press Office:-

The answers to our chassied vehicle rules queries seem mainly straightforward, However, we have further questions based on the answers supplied.

Q) As chassis strengthening is allowed, are we correct in assuming that additional crossmembers would also be allowed?

A) It is important that the original chassis structure is retained unmodified, and while it is acceptable to strengthen areas and include additional brackets or crossmembers, It would be limited to additions within the existing chassis frame structure. Additional chassis structures, i.e. extending the outward parameters of the original chassis structure would be considered a modification.

Q) It is the monococque rules that need the most clarification.
Your reply states that any cutting of the monococque" is considered to render the vehicle identity no longer original specification or of original identity ". This would suggest that any crash repairs necessitating cutting and removal of panels or chassis sections, or restoration work would call the vehicle's identity into question?

We presume that the point should really be that any cutting... other than in factory designed joining areas...would be the actual criteria?

A) In this respect it is necessary to differentiate between modification and repair. Any repair process that is in line with manufacturer's recommendations and that returns the structure to its original specification would not be considered to be a modification.

Q) Would the modification of wings to allow clearance for larger wheels fall foul of the regulations?

We presume not as the common fitment of sunroofs does not create issues as this is a non stressed item of the monococque, the same as wings?"

A) When considering a monocoque structure, it is necessary to consider what constitutes cosmetic panels that do not significantly add to the structural strength and which panels provide structural integrity. In general front wings modified in this way would not constitute a modification to the monocoque structure.

With reference to the further query, VOSA have advised that they would prefer the following statement:

What constitutes a monocoque is that of how an OEM manufacturer would view it. The chassis or `cage` assembly and all components that form it, less any cosmetic panels or infills that make no structural consideration to the monocoque or its component parts.
However, we must emphasis that this information is given for general guidance and each case will be judged on its merits.

Whilst none of this is definitive, and it contains the usual 'Judged on it's own merits' criteria, it does answer a lot of questions where the modifier has only been able to speculate in the past.

It means we are aware of what we can or cannot do and still retain the 5 points from the start of any modification process.

So, to summarise the above information:

Chassis

It is acceptable to box original chassis and also to add additional crossmembers but not to alter the existing chassis in any way to allow for their installation.

It is acceptable to remove NON STRUCTURAL body mounts and engine / gearbox mounts.

It is NOT acceptable to shorten, or lengthen the chassis, either in between standard suspension points or fore and aft of these.

Any additional items welded creating a longer overall chassis are classed as modifications. It would however be acceptable to bolt a reasonably sized additional subframe to existing mounting holes.

Any outriggers (as opposed to continuous chassis frame) fore or aft from the chassis would need clarification from VOSA as to their purpose before removal or alteration was accepted. This would be based on their purpose and whether they formed part of the vehicles original Type Approval.

Monococques

It is NOT acceptable for the bulkhead, or transmission tunnel area, to be modified.

The specification for a monococque will vary with each manufacturer and the decision on what are acceptable modifications will be based on those criteria for each vehicle.

It is acceptable for additional seam welding to be carried out.

Should there be any further questions relating the above information on specific vehicles ACE would be willing to assist in further clarification on an individual basis.

The above information relates to only 5 points (awarded for original unmodified chassis / monococque) of the 8 points system for retaining vehicle identity and we will be clarifying other sections in the future."

 

 

 

[Bowie69]

Still waiting from vosa btw, will let you know when I hear.

[WesBrooks]

Nice catch in getting that data before it disappeared. One day the site was open, then when I looked back a few months later to review some stuff it links through to a domain name hosting page.

So it appears you can add additional brackets, and remove those that are unneeded. This would seem to suggest that while an engine change would need to be registered with them it would not necessarily force an IVA potentially even if it did require new brackets. I'm tempted to get further clarification on that and get them to confirm they are still happy with that transcript as we currently don't have any access to the original communication to rely on if it did get questioned.

[CwazyWabbit]

The-ACE seems to have disappeared between april and august this year, any idea why they shutdown?

You can still access important parts of their website via archive.org for example http://web.archive.org/web/20160227222858/http://www.the-ace.org.uk/chassis-and-monocoque-modification/ is the page twodoorgaz quoted.

[Bowie69]

OK, here, finally, goes:

Quote

Hi There 
  
Hope you can help, was browsing gov.uk, and saw this page: 
  
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exemptions-from-vehicle-approval 
  
Now, I was under the impression on a vehicle that was radically altered (e.g. a bobtailed off roader, where the chassis was shortened at the rear, or a car converted into a pickup), that an IVA was a requirement if the points system was breached in any way, which includes needing the 5 points from an original or new unmodified chassis. 
  
The link above however puts this in some doubt, (and indeed the nidirect site here:https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/individual-vehicle-approval-iva) which states that if the vehicle is more than 10 years old, the IVA is not required, as a blanket regulation, appearing to cover even radically altered vehicles. 
  
Would you be able to clarify either way, please? 
  
Many thanks! 

Quote

Good afternoon Mr.Bowater, 

Thank you for your enquiry which has now been passed to me, due to its technical nature. This has caused an extended delay in you receiving a reply, for which I apologise. 

 There is a common misconception that once a vehicle is over ten years old it can be modified without the need for further approvals. Unfortunately, this is not the case. For a modified vehicle, the date of manufacture is taken as the date the vehicle achieves its new approval, following modification. The original date of manufacture becomes invalid once a vehicle is radically altered. Therefore, the "ten year rule" only applies to vehicles that have not been modified. If a vehicle is radically altered, then it will require IVA regardless of its age. 

I do hope that you have found this information to be of use. However, if you feel that I can be of further assistance in this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. 

Best regards, 

Mark 

Mark Vickers Eng Tech MSOE MIRTE | Technical Officer IVA M1 N1 O1 
Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency | Ellipse, Padley Road, Swansea, SA1 8AN 
Phone: 0300 123 9000  

       

 

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

Thanks for posting that up. Still somewhat of a cryptic answer though...

 

Because if you don't apply for approval... then surely the 'original' date of manufacture would still apply? i.e. not needing an IVA.

I'm guessing that they maybe didn't mean that. But that is what they have said.

Also if a car is radically altered and does retain it's age status (there are a number of examples) Then surely it would still be considered over 10 years since the date of manufacture.

[CwazyWabbit]

I read that as if you do a modification and don't go for an IVA then after 10 years of 'getting away with it' you become exempt. A bit like some of the planning permission rules.

[Daan]

On 17/10/2016 at 4:45 PM, WesBrooks said:

That's my current understanding too. Additions to the chassis is a grey area as there was something on the now defunct ACE site that indicate that you could add to the chassis, but not remove. I had heard of a modifications older than clause, but it wasn't relevant to me so didn't read into it further.

So whats actually new? If you cut a chassis, you need an IVA, that has not changed. Or am i not reading the whole thing?

 

Daan

[WesBrooks]

As far as I can see, not much.

If you modify your car and don't change axles, steering, engine or engine capacity, axles, gearbox, or substantially change the apperance - such as station wagon to crew cab then there appears to be no need to tell them.

If you start modifying the components which they list as major components then you should look over in detail the requirements.

If you loose enough points to require a new number plate then the IVA will be required, but you get an age related plate.

If you have fewer still points then still IVA, but you'll most likely be on a Q plate.

The 10 year reg might be for registering things like ex mod or forien imports that are mass produced factory spec cars that would not otherwise pass an IVA dues to external projections or such.

[Bowie69]

Dana, youre right, taken in the context of my question, nothing has changed.

Alter, rather than repair, a chassis and IVA. Though I understand adding to it is not a problem, just moving cross members, outriggers, shortening rails etc. As these all are used to create the structure of the vehicle.