IVA - vehicles over 10 years exempt

[L19MUD]

Not the answer I hoped for!

 

My Bobtail is a 1977 2 Door which I have owned for at least 10 years and was Bob'ed before I had it. When did the current rules come into force? I would however find it impossible to prove the date the chop to the rear of the chassis was completed.

 

I know rules are rules (and I understand the reasoning) but it does seem daft that the chopped off tail end of the chassis which only held the bumper on and does not affect body mountings/suspension/engine mounts/wheelbase automatically means an IVA.

[Bowie69]

Affects the safety of the vehicle, in terms of crash structure.

 

Also body mounts to new fabbed rear cross member

Like all these things, if you haven't bodies it, an IVA is nothing to worry about, especially if based on a production vehicle.

[L19MUD]

OK, thinking aloud here. The 'Bob' is not actually that short. I suspect that I could weld a 'repair' section back on in place of the original matching the original spec (like a replacement Defender rear crossmember) and it would only stick out a few inches from the back of the tailgate.

 

If I then used the mounting points on the original chassis points to mount my rear cross member/bumper I would have an unmodified chassis and require no IVA/SVA and just carry on life as normal.

 

Is this a plan?

 

The truck has never been on the road since my ownership if I am honest (bit of a Will Warne build) so no immediate pressing legality issue

 

I know this is not going to help departure angles but it is never going to be a competition winning truck so not of massive concern.

[L19MUD]

Looking at some pictures on the net (and having not had a close look at the truck for months) I think rather more will have been chopped off than I thought so this may not be an option

[Daan]

3 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

Though I understand adding to it is not a problem, just moving cross members, outriggers, shortening rails etc. As these all are used to create the structure of the vehicle.

 

But that is pretty much the same as it was.

[Bowie69]

Exactly, nothing has changed, nothing at all.

Original post was talking about the 10 year limit, which has been clarified now.

[Blanco]

This thread got me thinking about my 130 again (currently sorned while we were moving house , country and seeing a lot of hospital decor) . 

My chassis cab pickup was built (previous owner ) from a 1999 water board 110 that had been rear-ended.  I reckon it's time to find out what the score is so I have copied the invoices that were passed on and filled in form V627/1 dispatched yesterday to DVLA.

Mine is a pretty 'standard ' vehicle in that all the components are in themselves standard just not very comm on to find a single cab pickup.

Any way I hope the 10 year rule will help maybe, I'll report the result . 

I don't mind an inspection if deemed necessary . 

[malcolmcelyn]

Quite hypothetical really, as I don't own a Land Rover (yet!), but suppose I have a Series 3, 88" Station Wagon, complete with V5c.

1. I'd like to make it coil sprung, so I buy a brand new chassis. As its new, do I ask the DVLA for a new chassis number, or take the VIN plate off the old one and attach to the new one? Does it need IVA or will the act of showing 'new replacement chassis' receipt from manufacturer be enough? Straight swap = keep number plate, IVA for 'modified, coil-sprung' chassis = Q-plate? Coil-sprung axles required, so Defender/Discovery items fitted. IVA required as they're so different? Or included with 'new chassis'.

2. Having resolved that with the DVLA, I fit the SIII bodywork. It's all pretty standard stuff, just the odd 'slight' modification to fit the new bodywork or strengthen with chequer plate etc. No DVLA/IVA issues there. Same I guess for fitting winch etc.

3. Now to the running gear. I want a better engine, so fit a second-hand Izusu turbo-diesel. Not a major problem. Let the DVLA know it's number (stamped on block) and type, i.e. Diesel, turbocharged, and age of engine (from internet or manufacturers database) to allow for emissions testing. No IVA required?

4. New engine installed, but now, gearbox, transfer box etc need replacing, as they're not up to the torque of the new engine. So I buy a second-hand gearbox, from a Defender/Discovery. IVA again? It's permanent four wheel drive, but is this enough of a change to require IVA?

5. Lastly, power steering, for comfort and convenience. Again Defender/Discovery parts. Again, is this enough to need IVA?

 

Oh, and Hi. New member from Monmouth, South Wales. As stated, no Landie yet, but from the questions, I'm sure you can make out what sort of vehicle I'd like! I've no issue with doing an IVA, nor with emissions, I'd just prefer to avoid a Q-plate! Vanity I think.....

[miketomcat]

Pretty much every thing you've listed above would trigger the need for an IVA except the chassis swap to coils (that's IVA no matter what). Most of the others could be done on there own but the trouble is if you do each one one at a time you still end up with a truck that needs an IVA once there all done. As for registration basically if you use most of one vehicle you get an age related plate not tax exempt though. If it's a bitsa you get a q interestingly I want my ibex on a q as if it's q plated everyone knows it's been tested at some point.

Mike

[Blanco]

I can confirm straight away from my own researches that starting with a non-identical chassis puts you straight into the IVA arena.

Bit of an update on mine while the thread is warm.....

I have now been given a new chassis No. by DVLA, but I have to go through the IVA, and because I didn't build it myself I can't avail of the 'Basic' IVA; so I would have to launch into a full NIVA! Somewhat expensive!

Simplest cheapest option is therefore to reduce it to component parts and 'build' it myself..... DVSA want photographic evidence that sufficient disassembly is realised before the rebuild, straightforward enough, and a good way to deal with the poorer areas of the original rebuild; it sounds drastic but I could have spent the £5K easily on the parts and at least they are all in one place and I have had the use of the vehicle in the meantime!

Only fly in the ointment is the delay in getting the shed built, but that is finally taking shape,.. when the time comes I'll start a wee build thread.

[Bowie69]

As above, chassis is coil sprung, so not as per original, therefore IVA.

Once IVA'd, if you swap out sufficient components from your pre-IVA build, you will need an IVA. 

If you modify the chassis for power steering, technically this is an IVA issue again, as you have modified the chassis, critical ones at that. 

Lesson to take is, get everything done up front, and get it how you want.

[malcolmcelyn]

Thanks guys. As I surmised, IVA for more or less everything! Not a major issue in itself. Assuming I was correct about the engine age for emissions, that's not a problem either (I would want the engine in good condition obviously. I think what I'm getting at is that what I'm suggesting gets a Q-plate and there's no way of avoiding it? Perhaps I should get a Defender, take the wing arch extensions off, replace the windscreen and fit a SIII grill further back! lol

[Bandog]

What if the camel is rebuild and modified at the same frikkin time??? 

[Bowie69]

Camel?

Chill man, ask in the morning

[Bandog]

It's morning, according to gmt. 

Or do I say that I bought it like that?  Who knows what when? 

[Bowie69]

Which vehicle are you talking about? Details?

[Bandog]

Series 2a,3,109,defender, discovery 88 hybrid 1964 regeneration, no engine number on v5 (as I bought it) 

[malcolmcelyn]

Is this some sort of secret code? Lol

[Bandog]

9 hours ago, malcolmcelyn said:

Is this some sort of secret code? Lol

Its a camel, not a cow but gets called worse 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Bandog

[miketomcat]

8 minutes ago, Bandog said:

Its a camel, not a cow but gets called worse 

Can you start at the beginning as you are not making an sense. What vehicle, what mods and what do you want to do.

Mike

[Bandog]

I want a dumb mute Swedish blonde with huge knockers that runs a pub... 

Besides that, I am not sure if my vehicle, that is rebuilt, AND modified needs one of these poxy iva's. It's registered on a 1964 v5, with no engine number, as I bought it. It's been like that since the engine was swapped for a genuine rover reconditioned unit. (if I had seen this prior to selling the very good engine on eBay, could have got me another 200)

It's now got a 200 tdi in it and lt77 5 speed. 

Do I need an iva, or is it too old to qualify. It's been built by a complete idiot, me 

[WesBrooks]

The points system determines whether a modified vehicle retains the exisiting registration plate, needs a new age related registration plate, or needs a q plate. If the registration plate needs to change then you need an IVA. As your engine is a factory reconditioned unit if it is the same spec as the original for the chassis then it counts as the original. Likewise if you change the chassis like for like with no modifications it counts as original.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles

As others have said if the chassis has been modified within the time limit then an IVA is required regardless of the point score. This time limit will relate to when changes occurred to either the points system or sva/iva. It's unlikely to be a rolling exemption meaning if you stay quiet and it's not spotted for 10 years I don't think it effectively gets rubber stamped.

Have a look at the IVA test guides for M1 and N1 vehicles to see what you'd be up against. Getting a landy through an N1 would be easier, but restrict you to van speed limits and may effect insurance premiums.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/iva-manual-for-vehicle-category-m1

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/iva-manual-for-vehicle-category-n1

Major gotchas are likely to be internal and external projections and if you've raised your suspension then the self centering of the steering maybe a little weak if you've not also had castor corrected arms fitted.

Beyond that if you do go for a test then everything needs to be super neat. They for example are very prescriptive on acceptable securing of wiring, fuel, and brake lines. Fuel lines would need to be marked. With many aspects where you can show the item under test is the same as a type approved vehicle it may pass. These cases are normally highlighted in the guides.

Edit: I've got the 10 year figure wrong. I think for modifications to be exempt from IVA they need to be older than that and there needs to be reasonable evidence of the modifications being that old such as pictures in magazines or show reviews. I'll have a dig around and comment if I do find out the true figure.

Edited February 16, 2017 by WesBrooks

[Bandog]

Excellent answer, very kind, thanks very much 

[WesBrooks]

My comment on the age limit being 10 years is wrong, I'm not sure how long ago the modifications have to be before it passes under grandfather like rights but it's more than 10 I think. I'll add a comment on my original post.

In a nutshell the point system is the way they decide whether a car is the same car or not following modifications. The more you change, the more it is different to the original that passed type approval and more into a grey area where there is complete reliance on competence of the people doing the modifying. They give a little play room but also draw a limit where they are effectively saying the proportion of people that are modifying their cars who are either clueless or just have a far more generous idea of acceptable risk presents too much of a risk to the general public.

[WesBrooks]

According to the following site the date modifications need to be older than to avoid the need for an IVA test is 1998. This is the date the SVA test came in, which has now been replaced by the IVA test.

http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/licensing-legal-section/old-modifications-chassis-368130

Acceptable evidence might be quite tough though!

Edited February 16, 2017 by WesBrooks