Is my I.R.D a gonner ? ?

[Dezzie]

Hi all. I've got a Freelander Series 1, year 2000 L series Diesel.

Coming home from work the other night, when I was moving along slowly in traffic, I could hear a funny noise, which sounded like it was coming from the near side front.  It was a 'rotational noise' (like a hum - but not constant - so hum - hum - hum as the wheel went round) but did not stop when I pressed the brake.  As I sped up, the noise seemed to disappear.  This morning, the noise is much louder and sounds like a rusty bicycle being pushed along. So, like a creak - creak - creak.

I'm hoping it may just be a wheel bearing, or a failed CV joint.

Could this be a failed IRD unit? How would I know if the IRD had failed?  I'm currently running it in two wheel drive, due to lack of funds.

Thanks for any help. ........ Cheers .. ............Matt.

[ian gilbey]

Hi Matt. 

Try and check the bearings on the vcu ( middle of prop shaft ) you will need to drop shaft and spin the bearing. I bought a freelander and it sounded like wheel bearing or grinding brakes but it was the shaft bearings. Ian. 

[FridgeFreezer]

If you're running it in 2WD (presumably prop & VCU removed) then it won't be VCU bearings as Ian suggests.

I'd fault-find the cheap and easily replaced things before assuming the worst - so check brakes (sticking calliper?) wheel bearings, driveshafts & CV joints. You can also fill in the blanks of clutch up/down, in different gears / coasting to narrow it a bit.

[garrycol]

First question is why are you running in 2wd - to save funds you normally do this when there ha been an issue?

I would follow Fridge Freezers advice - when the IRD fails, it is the bearings in the pto unit that takes the drive to the rear - when these go it allows the pto crown and pinion to unmeash which causes a lot of banging and crashing - but when the rear drive is removed there is no load on these damaged components and they turn no problem not causing an issue until you connect the rear drive up again.

So as the front drive diff etc in the IRD are pretty robust I would look for the easy things as suggested.  A Cv that has gone sounds like any other vehicle CV - so will click a lot on lock and if it has collapsed when a lot of grinding. bashing and crashing etc.

 

Garry

 

[Dezzie]

Hi guys, thanks for all the help with this. Your ideas make interesting reading.

My apologies, I should have gone into more detail.  About 12 months ago, my rear diff failed. (oil leaked out unbeknown to me whilst coming home from Wales). Firstly humming, then squealing, then banging clunking, grinding. To put it right, was going to be getting on for what the car was worth. My Freelander, although tidy, is nearly 17 years old so my mechanic and I made the decision to remove the prop and VCU, and run it in 2 wheel drive until such time as I could find a good 2nd hand diff, or had the money for a replacement. The diff and VCU were replaced before in 2011. I believe the VCU is OK, as it's only done about 30k since being fitted. So it's run it 2wd since end of 2015. I will have it all put back together, when funds allow.

I've not noticed any 'clicking' on lock. The vehicle seems to be running quite well, apart from the noise.  It's definitely a rotational metallic noise. Almost sounds as though something needs lubricating.  I pressed the brake pedal, but the noise didn't alter. Fingers crossed it'll be a wheel bearing.  Although I guess it could be a drive shaft.  I'm frightened it's the IRD, as it might mean "Game Over" for the Freelander.

Thanks for all your help and replies............................ Matt.

[FridgeFreezer]

If your rear diff has actually exploded that suggests damage caused by a (previously) seized VCU, which will stress the whole drivetrain and usually kill the diff and/or the IRD, so it's entirely possible the IRD has suffered at the same time as the diff. With no load on it to drive the rear it shouldn't deteriorate as much, but if bearings or gears have been damaged they can still wear out over time just by being spun round for thousands of miles.

Nevertheless, still check the cheap & easy stuff 1st. Used parts are turning up more & more and a brand new IRD is ~£1100 from Land Rover, maybe more than the car's worth on paper but that depends on the alternative. I put a gen parts IRD in my ropey old TD4 at 210k and put a further ~55k on it, rather than chop it in for a replacement vehicle of unknown heritage.

[Tal]

It could be as simple as a siezed brake piston and a worn brake pad. metal on metal with the brake seat touching the disc.

if it is, check the opposite rear one as well

Edited December 6, 2016 by Tal

[garrycol]

Ok - when people say running in 2wd this normally means that the driveshaft from the IRD through the VCU to the rear diff is taken out. The rear axle driveshafts are normally left in so the axle still turns with movement.

From what you described the rear axles have been removed so the diff does not turn - and I assume the last section of the center driveshaft and then maybe the rear diff.  If this is the case the VCU is still turning and being stressed with drive at one end only - means the bearing could be gone.

As clear as mud - you need to tell us what components in the drive drain are still in place.

Eg is the drive shaft from the IRD to the VCU still in place, is the VCU still in place, is the drive shaft from the VCU to the diff still in place, is the diff still in place, are the rear axles still in place.

 

Saying you are runnning in 2wd means different things to different people - it generally means the fore and aft drives shafts are removed along with the VCU but diff and rear axles are still in place.

 

[Dezzie]

Hi guys, thanks for all your help with this one. This is a strange one, and a problem you can't really predict.

It turns out that a roundish piece of rust had broken away from the plate behind the disc, and wedged itself in between the plate and disc.  This was what was causing the noise !

Phew ! Thought it was going to cost me a fortune, but as it turned out, it cost me 10 quid as labour to my mechanic.

For the record, (not that it matters now).  My propshaft is completely removed, front and rear, including obviously the VCU.  The rear diff is still in place along with the driveshafts. Eventually, the plan is to have the diff replaced / reconditioned and have the Freelander put back to four wheel drive when my bank balance allows ! I think I may need the IRD reconning too, as it does whine a little.

Thanks again for all your help............................... Matt

[garrycol]

As I previously indicated the reason the drive system is removed is generally because the IRD PTO pinion.Crownwheel bearings have failed due to high loads caused by transmission windup due to VCU failure.  In most circumstances when driving you will not know the VCU has failed until the IRD also fails.  You can still drive on a failed IRD in 2wd with the tailshafts and VCU removed - as me how I know :-(

So you should plan on a IRD rebuild, a new VCU and new VCU bearings - maybe the front tailshaft CV and universal jloints. - also new rear diff mounts - in particular the front one that takes all the weight.

 

Garry

 

[FridgeFreezer]

When I looked into IRD's I found you can buy a new one from Land Rover for not much more than the price of a recon or aftermarket unit. If you're keeping the car I'd consider it worthwhile.

[davidat19]

I'm glad Dessies problem was only carp in a disc. I have a problem with the ird, its spat its oil out and got noisy. I have removed the prop and the noise reduced substantially. Obviuosly its becauase there is no oil....the pinion is fubbared. So I put some more oil in......it fell out at the front of the housing soon after it went in. Can't see whats up there.....is it likely that there is something like a cover or a switch that could be leaking (I have never seen a IRD on the floor, hoping that someone who has willsay "its the spraggle lever..tighten it up" or something similar!

 

Its a 2001 td4 manual btw.

 

HELLLLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

[Bowie69]

If the bearing has collapsed in the pinion, the seal will no longer be able to do its job, either that or the seal has melted and failed.

Either way it sounds like it needs to come out to me.

[FridgeFreezer]

The IRD pinions and carriers can be removed and either blanked or replaced as a unit without dropping the IRD. BUT if the pinion is dead, it's dead for a reason and there's a high chance the internals are also damaged. A new pinion might hold the oil in for a while but you could be on borrowed time.