2dextas Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) Done some looking around and this seems to be a common problem but with various causes and cures none of which have worked for me so thought i would try a new thread that might benefit all. 200tdi 110 CSW was i belive an earlier 110 retained by factory and sold on with 200 TDI (its got a factory plate fitted) so might be a bit wierd - started having problems with low fuel light coming on - i put this down to sender although i could sometimes cure it by turning ignition off starting again. bought new sender -assured it was the right one - Britpart one PRC8463 has float in line / parralell with pick up pipe with electonic casing fixed to pipe that sits in the tank, two spade connections red & black with a centre stud wich i fixed a wire to use as an earth in case needed but it doesnt seem to make anydifference if connected or not.. The old one got damaged in removal so no good to fiddle with but just had 2 wires (although there was provision for a third connection. again float/pickup pipe but had three little copper fingers at fixing end running on copper "tracks" presumably these provide resistance/ signal back Heres what i have found checked daisey chain earth to guage seems OK, ran direct earth to battery as suggested somewhere - no difference. Turning on ignition fuel guage reads around three quaters with fuel warning light on, start engine fuel guage moves to full and light stays on - why would that happen? Tried swapping wires over at sender end but only works one way Fiddling with the guage pulling wires on off i noticed if discconected as the guage needle drops at about half way the fuel warning light goes out, in reverse if you let needle go to empty connect wire again as it climbs the fuel warning light comes on as it gets near to full. Taking the sender out seems just as confusing, generally it reads 3/4 or full regardless of float position with light on. sometimes i can get it to read empty but fuel waring is on still. There seems little correlation between float position and reading. I read somewhere to test a guage you use a temp guage if you have one same connections so did this and that goes straight to far right - hot - not sure if this helps. I have seen various mentions saying they are direct wired others saying they have a relay in the dash somewhere ??? where ?what does it look like? clues would be good. Also read somewhere aftermarket tank (with poor positioned baffles) can be a cause but old unit/system used to work and new sender does not look that different plus light was on before change over What triggers the warning light? Is it worth running a cable from other side of the guage back to the other terminal on the sender which i guess is the low level wire?? or is this just an earth? Have not tried a new guage yet but it previously seemed to function OK and needle moves both ways - just in an extraordinary way!!. Could this be the source of the warning light although as i say it used to read OK prior to replacement sender. I did fit a replacement durite temp guage recently - coould that have changed anything disconnecting it didnt seem to have any impact on fuel guage/warning light Any suggestions gratefully received i am not electrical in anyway but its got to be something simple - he says! Edited December 7, 2016 by 2dextas error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 PRC8463 is correct for a 110, looks like this http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/89989/5497/fuel_tank_sender_unit_110_ja915357_defender on the note which came with my new sender [same as yours] it says the black /forward terminal connects to fuel gauge green/black trace wire the red/rear terminal connects to low fuel light white/slate wire swapping the wires over at sender should put the low fuel light on when ignition is turned on, the ridged stud in centre is the earth connection. there maybe a low fuel metal case relay [ecu] behind the instrument pack, screwed to the top of the binacle cover with a white/slate, plain green & a green/black & plain black earth wire to it, maybe that is causing the incorrect operation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dextas Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 thanks for that - no note in my box that i can find - but will give it a go and or have a look for the relay thingy. I am guesing from your comments that after swapping over the sender wires light will go on with ignition then off as fuel guage picks up "signal" assuming its not empty! Will report back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dextas Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 hi swapped them over result is low warning light on but needle right at bottom below empty - so no action at all even if engine running. As i said above if you turn ignition on needle swings up to just over 3/4 then if you bstart engine it goes up more to just touching full - light on all the time. But pull off the none feed side from the guage the needle slowley drops and at just about halfway light goes out - almost as thoiugh its sort of acting backwards? Had a look wires at tank end are black & green/black In binnicle slate gray wire from light just dissapears into the loom, cant find any realys other than two multi wired units (one yellow one red )with loads of wires in each. That being said i might not be looking in the right place. The two i found were towards bottom right of binnicle space fixed by usual tab type connection to bulkhead this was just with binnicle /instrument cluster removed - do i need to delve deeper/look elsewhere Guage has no slate wire running from it? just a thought given that it seems to be something of a known issue - would it cure it if i just ran a new pair of cables from sender?? if so what would need to connect to what at guage/ warning light end of things?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 the 2 relay you've found are the yellow voltage sensitive switch & rear scrren heater, these have no influence on the fuel gauge part of the wiring, white/slate wire for low fuel light doesn't go to the gauge, it runs from sender unit to low fuel light location on the warning light cluster, make sure the fuel gauge U clamp is NOT ouching the gauge elect terminals, it should have a earth wire from the central long stud under the knurled nut that holds the U clamp on, if no white/slate wire at tank, it's probably broken off or been cut off, with only 2 wires the tank sender connections should be as my previous reply. just ignore the white/slate part. if no change in operation, suspect a duff gauge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dextas Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 hi i think its time to go for a new guage and see if that works. Guage is earthed as you suggest and i have tried other direct earths as well. On the guage theres the power supply in common with temp guage on the LH side ( looking forward) so the other wire on the right goes where? as i say it seems to go into the loom - is this the direct link back to sender? The wires at sender end have been modded by proper connector that joins main loom near rear crossmember - quite possibly is slate from there back to light but from connector to sender is just two black wires. why would guage move more when starting engine? is that just a Landrover fairy item not explainable it just does that its a landrover approach? or does it indicate anything about the guage/supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dextas Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 just looked at vdo guages - best part of £60!! Durite guages are half that - any reason why i should not use a Durite? - i can get a guage and sender ( adjustable it says? for what i dont know!) for £25 on one site Is it safe to assume guages will work with most senders or is there some need for special compatability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 the plain green on the guage is the 12v feed from fusebox the green/blue trace is the signal from the sender unit, you could fit a Td5 fuel gauge, connections are the same as your existing fuel gauge, you can get a VDO gauge for less than £60, look here https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s/instruments-gauges/vdo/vdo-cockpit-vision-gauges ifanother gauge doesn't work correctly, then it'll be more investigating the wiring loom connections & routing for any damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dextas Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 thanks for that - i have ordered one so will see how it goes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dextas Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 Got weirder it seems . Bought new VDo guage - its not identical in either rear connctions or read out to original. Wired it up tuirned it on with following results Wires right way - as they were originally Guage works in reverse it seems float at bottom gives full reading. As you raise float it reads empty at the top with low fuel light going out at about 3/4 full. This seems to indicate that the old guage was part of the issue because at least low fuel light & guage work of sorts albeit in reverse! It also seems to confirm low fuel light issue must be caused by the guage as i can get it to go out now Wires reveresed as per your suggestion and britparts occasional comments guage works but goes more or less straight to full It will read empty with float at bottom but even a tiny lift of the floart goes straight to full This seemed to indicate sender was not working as it should although its new as above Any thoughts on these results? I also think that the new britpart sender which is different from the one o took out might be hitting an internal baffle and so in addition/ or because its not at the bottom it simply reads full when in the tank . So i dug out the old sender repaired the damaged fuel pickup pipe ( sort of! for time being) and i got it to work - tank reads about half full with no low fuel light. So as above i think it was cetainly the guage to some extent but also possibly affected by jamming float on replacent - either rubbish part or possible baffle in wrong place in a replacement tank? or possibly is it because the tank is from its pre Tdi days - anyone know if there are differences between 110 CSW and 200 Tdi Defenders? Which then leads top the Britpart sender - why reverse action and /or extreme sensitivity/lack of movement if wired other way?? I have found another type as per link wich is very simelar to my original - hence my question about tank differences between CSW and Defender 110s http://www.lrparts.net/fuel-sender-unit-for-defender-110-up-to-ja915357.html As the original now works it seems - not tested as it got too dark to finish -am i correct in thinking the various senders are actually quite different especially prior to 300tdi it seems and getting the correct one is a must because of baffles and however the thing works electrically (resistance??). So ordered one of the type above will report on findings Any comments gratefully recieved as i said at the beginning it may help some other poor soul - and its such a simple things yet so infuriating to reslove it seems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 (edited) You bought the wrong VDO gauge. You need model 301-105, which has a 240 to 33 Ohm range. You probably got one with the VDO range (10-180 Ohms). You can't reverse the wires. That will damage the gauge. Edited December 14, 2016 by Red90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 don't know about the VDO gauge being the wrong variant, I run a Td5 fuel gauge with a original pre 200tdi tank sender -- this one http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/89989/5497/fuel_tank_sender_unit_110_ja915357_defender which is what you should be using as well. the one in your link is a 300tdi onwards type. in a recently new fuel tank, don't have any problems like your having, AFAIK the pre plastic 200/300 110 fuel tanks are all the same, the 300tdi sender is a different design but still works the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dextas Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 hi Guage seems to work with original ("repaired & leaking) sender. Ordered the correct one but although it had the right ref on box from LRC ltd as they showed pictures it arrived- (Britpart!!) PRC 8463 it said on the box but it was not the one shown in picture - which had straight float arm , dip arm and electricals at tank fixing end as original. see link http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/search/results.html?s=&s=prc8463&sb=Search What came is the one with the wires wrapped around it cranked float which i already have and which is shown in Westerns link above and doesnt work - as above. Dont know if this was a mistake or they Britpart - think it does the job. Well it doesnt on mine!! besides electrics the float fouls a baffle almost certainly giving a full reading all the time So sent it back and waiting on latest version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dextas Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 The mystery deepens!! Got the right sender thank you First Four for your efforts- its the same as the one i removed at least -so got it out of the box removed my various temp wires connections plugged it into the socket and ...... yup it read backwards!!!! After banging my head on the ground cut wires crossed them over as had been suggested by other posts - no joy. getting dark so put it all back with new unit, next day started up still reading backwards - basically nearly full when i knew it was empty - head off putting in a bit of fuel on the way, the guage moved back towards empty again in what seemed to be approx the same increment you would expect if correct so seems to be working. Drove about 10 miles then on the way back i noticed the guage appeared to now be reading correctly !!! and has stayed like that - that was a few days ago so i am now waiting for level to drop to see if low warning light comes on. Anybody got any ideas whats going on? i certainly dont . How can this happen without any change to wiring? As i said at outset of this post i was hoping to establish something like a definitive answer to what seems to bea constant problem i notice there have been several newer posts on the same sort of subject since my initial post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dextas Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 reading was stable for a while and i assumed reading correctly but yesterday watched it swing past its previous reading then after a mile or two slowly dropped back to what i assume is a correct reading. If it works on resistance - which i assume is a constant - how can this be? Is it worth running a new pai of wires from sender back to guage or will this affect resistance/reading? is there a particular sized cable that i should use if i do this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeyhangr Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 You any further forward with this mate? I'm currently having a nightmare with my low fuel lamp always being on. The gauge is working fine but everything seems to be pointing at the little pcb being knackered, just wondered if anybody had any experience for possible causes of the light not going off other than sender being duff or a bad earth on the bulkhead from the sender which have both tested fine (sorry for hijack btw) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I had all of the problems you listed after fitting a britpart sender. I pulled it out and bought an OEM unit and it's now working as it should. I compared the resistances between the Britpart one and the OEM one and they were totally different. The plug was also giving me a very bad connection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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