Jump to content

defender 200tdi fuel gauage and warning light


Recommended Posts

Done some looking around and this seems to be a common problem but with various causes and cures none of which have worked for me so thought i would try a new thread that might benefit all.

200tdi 110 CSW was i belive an earlier 110 retained by factory and sold on with 200 TDI (its got a factory plate fitted) so might be a bit wierd - started having problems with low fuel light coming on - i put this down to sender although i could sometimes cure it by turning ignition off starting again.

bought new sender -assured it was the right one - Britpart one PRC8463 has float in line / parralell with pick up pipe with electonic casing fixed to pipe that sits in the tank, two spade connections red & black with a centre stud wich i fixed a wire to use as an earth in case needed but it doesnt seem to make anydifference if connected or not..

The old one got damaged in removal so no good to fiddle with but just had 2 wires (although there was provision for a third connection. again float/pickup pipe but had three little copper fingers at fixing end running on copper "tracks" presumably these provide resistance/ signal back

Heres what i have found

  1. checked daisey chain earth to guage seems OK, ran direct earth to battery as suggested somewhere - no difference.
  2. Turning on ignition fuel guage reads around three quaters with fuel warning light on, start engine fuel guage moves to full and light stays on - why would that happen?
  3. Tried swapping wires over at sender end but only works one way
  4. Fiddling with the guage pulling wires on off i noticed if discconected as the guage needle drops at about half way the fuel warning light goes out, in reverse if you let needle go to empty connect wire again as it climbs the fuel warning light comes on as it gets near to full.
  5. Taking the sender out seems just as confusing, generally it reads 3/4 or full regardless of float position with light on. sometimes i can get it to read empty but fuel waring is on still. There seems little correlation between float position and reading.
  6. I read somewhere to test a guage you use a temp guage if you have one same connections so did this and that goes straight to far right - hot - not sure if this helps.
  7. I have seen various mentions saying they are direct wired others saying they have a relay in the dash somewhere ??? where ?what does it look like? clues would be good.
  8. Also read somewhere aftermarket tank (with poor positioned baffles) can be a cause but old unit/system used to work and new sender does not look that different plus light was on before change over
  9. What triggers the warning light? Is it worth running a cable from other side of the guage back to the other terminal on the sender which i guess is the low level wire?? or is this just an earth?

 

Have not tried a new guage yet but it previously seemed to function OK and needle moves both ways - just in an extraordinary way!!. Could this be the source of the warning light although as i say it used to read OK prior to replacement sender.

I did fit a replacement durite temp guage recently - coould that have changed anything disconnecting it didnt seem to have any impact on fuel guage/warning light

Any suggestions gratefully received i am not electrical in anyway but its got to be something simple - he says!

Edited by 2dextas
error
Link to comment
Share on other sites

PRC8463 is correct for a 110, looks like this http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/89989/5497/fuel_tank_sender_unit_110_ja915357_defender

on the note which came with my new sender [same as yours] 

it says 

the black /forward terminal connects to fuel gauge green/black trace wire

the red/rear terminal connects to low fuel light white/slate wire

swapping the wires over at sender should put the low fuel light on when ignition is turned on, 

the ridged stud in centre is the earth connection. 

there maybe a low fuel metal case relay [ecu] behind the instrument pack, screwed to the top of the binacle cover with a white/slate, plain green & a green/black & plain black earth wire to it, maybe that is causing the incorrect operation

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks for that - no note in my box that i can find - but will give it a go and or have a look for the relay thingy.

I am guesing from your comments that after swapping over the sender wires light will go on with ignition then off as fuel guage picks up "signal" assuming its not empty!

Will report back!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hi

 swapped them over result is low warning light on but needle right at bottom below empty - so no action at all even if engine running.

As i said above  if you turn ignition on needle swings up to just over 3/4 then if you bstart engine it goes up more to just touching full - light on all the time. But pull off the none feed side from the guage the needle slowley drops and at just about halfway light goes out - almost as thoiugh its sort of acting backwards?

Had a look wires at tank end are black & green/black

In binnicle slate gray wire from light just dissapears into the loom, cant find any realys other than two multi wired units (one yellow one red )with loads of wires in each. That being said i might not be looking in the right place. The two i found were towards bottom right of binnicle space fixed by usual tab type connection to bulkhead this was just with binnicle /instrument cluster removed - do i need to delve deeper/look elsewhere

Guage has no slate wire running from it?

just a thought given that it seems to be something of a known  issue - would it cure it if i just ran a new pair of cables from sender?? if so what would need to connect to what at guage/ warning light end of things?? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the 2 relay you've found are the yellow voltage sensitive switch & rear scrren heater, these have no influence on the fuel gauge part of the wiring, white/slate wire for low fuel light doesn't go to the gauge, it runs from sender unit to low fuel light location on the warning light cluster, 

make sure the fuel gauge U clamp is NOT ouching the gauge elect terminals, it should have a earth wire from the central long stud under the knurled nut that holds the U clamp on, 

 

if no white/slate wire at tank, it's probably broken off or been cut off, 

with only 2 wires the tank sender connections should be as my previous reply. just ignore the white/slate part.

if no change in operation, suspect a duff gauge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hi

 i think its time to go for a new guage and see if that works.

Guage is earthed as you suggest and i have tried other direct earths as well.

On the guage theres the power supply in common with  temp guage on the LH side ( looking forward) so the other wire on the right goes where? as i say it seems to go into the loom - is this the direct link back to sender?

The wires at sender end have been modded by proper connector that joins main loom near rear crossmember - quite possibly is slate from there back to light but from connector to sender is just two black wires.

why would guage move more when starting engine? is that just a Landrover fairy item not explainable it just does that its a landrover approach? or does it indicate anything about the guage/supply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just looked at vdo guages - best part of £60!!

Durite guages are half that - any reason why i should not use a Durite? - i can get a guage and sender ( adjustable it says? for what i dont know!) for £25 on one site

Is it safe to assume guages will work with most senders or is there some need for special compatability?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the plain green on the guage is the 12v feed from fusebox 

the green/blue trace is the signal from the sender unit, you could fit a Td5 fuel gauge, connections are the same as your existing fuel gauge, 

you can get a VDO gauge for less than £60, look here https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s/instruments-gauges/vdo/vdo-cockpit-vision-gauges

ifanother gauge doesn't work correctly, then it'll be more investigating the wiring loom connections & routing for any damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got weirder it seems .

Bought new VDo guage - its not identical in either rear connctions or read out to original.

Wired it up tuirned it on with following results

Wires right way - as they were originally

  1. Guage works in reverse it seems float at bottom gives full reading.
  2. As you raise float it reads empty at the top with low fuel light going out at about 3/4 full.

This seems to indicate that the old guage was part of the issue because at least low fuel light & guage work of sorts albeit in reverse! It also seems to confirm low fuel light issue must be caused by the guage as i can get it to go out now

Wires reveresed as per your suggestion and britparts occasional comments

  1. guage works but goes more or less straight to full
  2. It will read empty with float at bottom but even a tiny lift of the floart goes straight to full

This seemed to indicate sender was not working as it should although its new as above

Any thoughts on these results?

I also think that the new britpart sender which is different from the one o took out might be hitting an internal baffle and so in addition/ or because its not at the bottom it simply reads full when in the tank .

So i dug out the old sender repaired the damaged fuel pickup pipe ( sort of! for time being) and i got it to work - tank reads about half full with no low fuel light.

So as above i think it was cetainly the guage to some extent but also possibly affected by jamming float on replacent - either rubbish part or possible baffle in wrong place in a replacement tank? or possibly is it because the tank is from its pre Tdi days - anyone know if there are differences between 110 CSW and 200 Tdi Defenders?

Which then leads top the Britpart sender - why reverse action and /or extreme sensitivity/lack of movement if wired other way??

I have found another type as per link wich is very simelar to my original - hence my question about tank differences between CSW and Defender 110s

http://www.lrparts.net/fuel-sender-unit-for-defender-110-up-to-ja915357.html

As the original now works it seems - not tested as it got too dark to finish -am i correct in thinking the various senders are actually quite different especially prior to 300tdi it seems and getting the correct one is a must because of baffles and however the thing works electrically (resistance??).

So ordered one of the type above will report on findings

Any comments gratefully recieved as i said at the beginning it may help some other poor soul - and its such a simple things yet so infuriating to reslove it seems

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

don't know about the VDO gauge being the wrong variant, I run a Td5 fuel gauge with a original pre 200tdi tank sender -- this one http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/89989/5497/fuel_tank_sender_unit_110_ja915357_defender which is what you should be using as well. the one in your link is a 300tdi onwards type.

 in a recently new fuel tank, don't have any problems like your having, AFAIK the pre plastic 200/300 110 fuel tanks are all the same, the 300tdi sender is a different design but still works the same way. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hi

 Guage seems to work with original ("repaired & leaking) sender.

Ordered the correct one but although it had the right ref on box  from  LRC ltd as they showed pictures it arrived- (Britpart!!) PRC 8463 it said on the box but it was not the one shown in picture - which had straight float arm , dip arm and electricals at tank fixing end as original. see link

http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/search/results.html?s=&s=prc8463&sb=Search

What came is the one with the wires wrapped around it cranked float which i already have and which is shown in Westerns link above and doesnt work - as above. Dont know if this was a mistake or they Britpart - think it does the job. Well it doesnt on mine!! besides electrics the float fouls a baffle almost certainly giving a full reading all the time

So sent it back and waiting on latest version

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

The mystery deepens!!

Got the right sender  thank you First Four for your efforts- its the same as the one i removed at least  -so got it out of the box removed my various temp wires connections plugged it into the socket and ...... yup it read backwards!!!!

After banging my head on the ground cut wires crossed them over as had been suggested by other posts - no joy.

getting dark so put it all back with new unit, next day started up still reading backwards - basically nearly full when i knew it was empty - head off putting in a bit of fuel on the way, the guage moved back towards empty again in what seemed to be approx the same increment you would expect if correct so seems to be working.

 Drove about 10 miles then on the way back i noticed the guage appeared to now be reading correctly !!! and has stayed like that - that was a few days ago so i am now waiting for level to drop to see if low warning light comes on.

Anybody got any ideas whats going on? i certainly dont . How can this happen without any change to wiring?

As i said at outset of this post i was hoping to establish something like a definitive answer to what seems to bea constant problem i notice there have been several newer posts on the same sort of subject since my initial post 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

reading was stable for a while and i assumed reading correctly but yesterday watched it swing past its previous reading then after a mile or two slowly dropped back to what i assume is a correct reading.

If it works on resistance - which i assume is a constant  - how can this be?

Is it worth running a new pai of wires from sender back to guage or will this affect resistance/reading? is there a particular sized cable that i should use if i do this

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

You any further forward with this mate? I'm currently having a nightmare with my low fuel lamp always being on. The gauge is working fine but everything seems to be pointing at the little pcb being knackered, just wondered if anybody had any experience for possible causes of the light not going off other than sender being duff or a bad earth on the bulkhead from the sender which have both tested fine (sorry for hijack btw)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had all of the problems you listed after fitting a britpart sender. I pulled it out and bought an OEM unit and it's now working as it should. I compared the resistances between the Britpart one and the OEM one and they were totally different. The plug was also giving me a very bad connection

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy