TRANSFER BOX!

[Jason2]

Hi Chaps

I have some very good friends out here in France who are experiencing a loud rumbling between 58 & 62mph only during acceleration with a 1994 300tdi.

Local Land Rover Dealer said that it was a wheel bearing another garage after taking front prop off,noise still there,taking rear prop off no noise has deduced that it's the transfer box that's knacked 3000euro ( £2000) including a new clutch.

So the questions are does this sound right?,what would the consequences be of doing nothing and carrying on using it with the radio turned up?How much can you get a transfer box for and what kind of a job is it to change?

Thanks in advance

Jason

[BogMonster]

Sounds more like a wheel bearing or rear diff pinion bearing to me - hard to say without listening to it first hand though. As long as they have oil in, transfer boxes usually don't go wrong unless abused and all they get is a bit (or a lot) of backlash with age/mileage.

Out of interest how did they drive it with no propshafts on...?!

If you meant they drove it on just the front then that is consistent with rear diff pinion bearing which will rumble but usually only under load which is obviously removed if there is no propshaft connected.

It really needs to go up on a wheels free ramp and be driven against the brakes with somebody underneath it IMHO. Grabbing the propshaft near the diff and giving it a good shake in every direction may show up some play in which case it definitely needs investigating.

[Jason2]

Sounds more like a wheel bearing or rear diff pinion bearing to me - hard to say without listening to it first hand though. As long as they have oil in, transfer boxes usually don't go wrong unless abused and all they get is a bit (or a lot) of backlash with age/mileage.

Out of interest how did they drive it with no propshafts on...?!

If you meant they drove it on just the front then that is consistent with rear diff pinion bearing which will rumble but usually only under load which is obviously removed if there is no propshaft connected.

It really needs to go up on a wheels free ramp and be driven against the brakes with somebody underneath it IMHO. Grabbing the propshaft near the diff and giving it a good shake in every direction may show up some play in which case it definitely needs investigating.

Thanks a lot BogMonster for your rapid reply

I dont have a clue how they tested anything as I was not there but what you say does seem to comfirm my doubts that it's not the transfer box but oddly enough the noise seems to be coming from the gearbox/transfer box area?

Can I just also add that the Land Rover dealer seid that is was a wheel bearing with out actualy looking at the vehicle!!!!

[Orgasmic Farmer]

To me it sounds like a rear prop UJ. Front prop off = noise, rear prop off = no noise. QED its in the rear prop! I certainly had the same symtoms and thats what it was in my case. You need to get underneath on flat ground, wheels chocked and handbrake off in neutral. Then shake the props. If its in gear or handbrake on then unlikely to dind any play in the UJs. Tell your mate to try this before taking it any further with the workshop.

[steve b]

Hi Jason2, try what orgasmic farmer said make sure its chocked and in neutral & hand brake off, sounds like the rear axle pinion nut may be loose( this takes preload off pinion bearing. I have a friend 20 km east of Ruffec who is a old hand at landies if you need his no ping me.

Cheers

Steveb B)

[Jason2]

B)-->

QUOTE(steve b @ Apr 12 2007, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Jason2, try what orgasmic farmer said make sure its chocked and in neutral & hand brake off, sounds like the rear axle pinion nut may be loose( this takes preload off pinion bearing. I have a friend 20 km east of Ruffec who is a old hand at landies if you need his no ping me.

Cheers

Steveb B)

Cheers Chaps!!

I havn't even had a look myself, hopefully they will be getting it back tomorrow as putting £2k into a 94 disco is out of the question especialy if it's not the transfer box.

I will keep you posted.

Thanks once again for the offer steve will see how we get on once they get it back.

[Ivan]

but oddly enough the noise seems to be coming from the gearbox/transfer box area?

Had a similar thing in my 90 a year ago. I was convinced the clutch was shot due to the noise it kept making when I changed gear. The noise sounded just like it was coming from the belhousing. Turned out to be a duff front UJ. Changed both front UJ's and no more strange noises.

HTH

Ivan

[Abe]

Hiya Jason

Go with the propshaft option initially

order yourself two new ones (source them out of paddocks and they will be delivered out to you in working days) in most cases post-free

my exp was I had problems with the main box ordered our a re-con box from ashcrofts (much better than sourcing locally) delivery out to Belgium came in at about 50GBP for delivery and the shipping on the returned box about Eur100 (still worked out much cheaper

I was getting problems with the front shaft (although before the transmission change there was no problem) rather than P*ss around with new joints etc - a new one was about (hold-on) 45-55 GBP put it on (bought the expansion gaiter as well - problem sorted clunk & clicking gone

For the transfer box I also ordered from Parkers one of their rear splash-plates - cst about GBP20 installed in about 30mins and ensures that the mainshaft into the transfer box it always oiled (I have a later transfer box on which apparently had already got around the mainshaft problems but for the little investment it ensures that all it kept over-lubed

PS the reason I write is that in my Series III i have the 300tdi motor & full disco transmission

happy trails

Abe

[Jason2]

Got the old girl back from the garage,Test drive:This is a speed related bearing noise starts at approx 55mph to about 65mph as soon as you back off the throttle the rumble noise stops.Tried it in low box,diff lock sound as a pound.Dived underneath all oil levels are good yanked around on all the props,UJ's no movement.Then I put a grease gun on rear UJ's and as usual couldn't get any greese in there not having a pressure grease gun and that but however the front UJ on to the diff spat grease out all over the place!!!Although I can't find any play in it I would like to think that the fact that grease is coming out of all four needle bearing caps it's not healthy as for the other UJ on the front prop couldn't get grease gun on nipple.

What do reckon Chaps? Try a new prop shaft? Got to start somewhere eh!

[nickm]

someone i know recently had a really strange rumbling noise on his mota

really sounded as tho it was the T box finally tracked the noise down to a bent

rear axle which was putting loadsa stress on the diff , replacement axle all sorted

would check the rear end b4 paying out that sort of money

[Les Henson]

Grease coming out of all 4 bearing caps on a U/J is good. The grease gun just pushes the grease past the seals. The idea when greasing a U/J is to push the old grease (which is normally black), out with the new. Ideally you should check for play before re-greasing, as doing this first can mask any play for a short while. U/J's can sieze up, although this is rare. Checking for this is best done with the prop disconnected from the drive flange. I would check also the prop sliding joint as wear sometimes becomes evident initially at certain speed ranges, where it begins to oscillate. Having said that, it's usually accompanied by vibration which is detected throuhg the gearstick. If you have the props disconnected, then you can jack each individual wheel off the ground (chock opposite end wheel of the vehicle in front and behind to prevent it rolling, you will have no handbrake or 'in gear' lock while the rear prop is off). Try to rock the wheel while grasping it in the 9 and 3 o clock position, any play is likely to be wheel bearings. Spin the wheel and listen to the centre of the wheel for any rumbling noises. While the transmission is slack, push/pull the hand brake drum/disc up and down, there should be no play at all. If the transfer rear bearing is shot it's usually accompanied by a leak down the back of the handbrake backplate. There is an acceptable amount of play in the front transfer case output bearing (a couple of mm is ok).Pull down hard on the flange and twist it, it should remain smooth. Diff nose bearings are tested in the same way, there should be no play, and rotation should be smooth with some mild resistance due to the internals of the axle turning at the same time. By disconnecting the drive train into it's component parts without getting silly with the tool box usually identifies the problem.

Les.

[Jason2]

Grease coming out of all 4 bearing caps on a U/J is good. The grease gun just pushes the grease past the seals. The idea when greasing a U/J is to push the old grease (which is normally black), out with the new. Ideally you should check for play before re-greasing, as doing this first can mask any play for a short while. U/J's can sieze up, although this is rare. Checking for this is best done with the prop disconnected from the drive flange. I would check also the prop sliding joint as wear sometimes becomes evident initially at certain speed ranges, where it begins to oscillate. Having said that, it's usually accompanied by vibration which is detected throuhg the gearstick. If you have the props disconnected, then you can jack each individual wheel off the ground (chock opposite end wheel of the vehicle in front and behind to prevent it rolling, you will have no handbrake or 'in gear' lock while the rear prop is off). Try to rock the wheel while grasping it in the 9 and 3 o clock position, any play is likely to be wheel bearings. Spin the wheel and listen to the centre of the wheel for any rumbling noises. While the transmission is slack, push/pull the hand brake drum/disc up and down, there should be no play at all. If the transfer rear bearing is shot it's usually accompanied by a leak down the back of the handbrake backplate. There is an acceptable amount of play in the front transfer case output bearing (a couple of mm is ok).Pull down hard on the flange and twist it, it should remain smooth. Diff nose bearings are tested in the same way, there should be no play, and rotation should be smooth with some mild resistance due to the internals of the axle turning at the same time. By disconnecting the drive train into it's component parts without getting silly with the tool box usually identifies the problem.

Les.

Thanks a lot Les, that's got me thinking again,the front props sliding joint is a little weird!The rubber seal looks melted and sombody has put a plastic tie jobby on it to hold it in place.

Will have to try and get the props off to have a closer look.

[Jason2]

There is no knocking,clanking,farting or any other noise for that matter except for when you get up to 55mph there is wheerrrrring,rumbly bearing noise coming from underneath the centre console and forward a bit kind of area.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if I take each prop off in turn the only way I'm going to get drive is to lock the diff-yeh? and driving up to 55mph to test with the diff lock on is a bit bloody stupid-yeh?

So?

[Les Henson]

I didn't suggest you drive it, the tests I mention are static.

Les.

[BogMonster]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if I take each prop off in turn the only way I'm going to get drive is to lock the diff-yeh? and driving up to 55mph to test with the diff lock on is a bit bloody stupid-yeh?

Not stupid if you have got a propshaft off - it will do no damage. All I would say is avoid wide throttle openings in low gears because all the torque is going through one axle.

[Jason2]

It's just come to light that the rubber damper on the rear prop was well knackered and has just been changed,I'm guessing here but is it possible that because of realy excessive wear in the damper the prop or the rear out put bearing on the Transfer box has taken a hammering-Does also comfirm what the garage seid about noise not being apparent with rear prop off.

[Jason2]

It's just come to light that the rubber damper on the rear prop was well knackered and has just been changed,I'm guessing here but is it possible that because of realy excessive wear in the damper the prop or the rear out put bearing on the Transfer box has taken a hammering-Does also comfirm what the garage seid about noise not being apparent with rear prop off.

Hi Chaps

Still on with this bloody rumbling noise at speed.Apparently whilst reversing the rear diff took a knock recently (tyre into wall,blow out) and the diff does'nt look in line with rear prop (as appose to my disco anyway) see attached photo.

Can anyone please tell me if there is any adjustment on the rear diff to line it up straight with prop and how or at least comfirm that this could be the fault of the problem putting excessive load on transfer box.

The rear diff nose bearing has a lot of play in it,can these be changed easily???

Cheers in advance

Jason

[Jason2]

Hi Chaps

Still on with this bloody rumbling noise at speed.Apparently whilst reversing the rear diff took a knock recently (tyre into wall,blow out) and the diff does'nt look in line with rear prop (as appose to my disco anyway) see attached photo.

Can anyone please tell me if there is any adjustment on the rear diff to line it up straight with prop and how or at least comfirm that this could be the fault of the problem putting excessive load on transfer box.

The rear diff nose bearing has a lot of play in it,can these be changed easily???

Cheers in advance

Jason

Just a recap:

Trying to locate loud rumbling noise at 60mph under load on mates 1994 300tdi have discovered that rear diff is not in line with prop (see pics his n mine) Can'nt suss out why???????

Large amount of play in rear diff nose bearing which might be causing rumble????

So Question is can this bearing be changed in situ with out stripping diff and if so how do you get the bloody thing out????

Thanks in advance

Jason

[BogMonster]

Just a recap:

Trying to locate loud rumbling noise at 60mph under load on mates 1994 300tdi have discovered that rear diff is not in line with prop (see pics his n mine) Can'nt suss out why???????

Large amount of play in rear diff nose bearing which might be causing rumble????

So Question is can this bearing be changed in situ with out stripping diff and if so how do you get the bloody thing out????

Thanks in advance

Jason

Play there will definitely be causing major rumble!

I'm afraid it's a diff out job to change the pinion bearings and even then not entirely simple as you need to worry about crownwheel/pinion settings. Easiest option may be an exchange diff from Ashcrofts.

[Jason2]

Play there will definitely be causing major rumble!

I'm afraid it's a diff out job to change the pinion bearings and even then not entirely simple as you need to worry about crownwheel/pinion settings. Easiest option may be an exchange diff from Ashcrofts.

Thanks Bogmonster

You can't just take the slack up by tightening????????

[BogMonster]

If there is play, unless the nut has come loose it will be major wear or partial disintegration (or both!) of the pinion bearings so no it is a stripdown job and reassembly needs to be done carefully.

Hopefully gearboxdave may be along to shed his far greater wisdom on the issue in due course

[Jason2]

If there is play, unless the nut has come loose it will be major wear or partial disintegration (or both!) of the pinion bearings so no it is a stripdown job and reassembly needs to be done carefully.

Hopefully gearboxdave may be along to shed his far greater wisdom on the issue in due course

That makes sense Bogmonster

So the other thing is:

I can't suss out what determines the position of the diff in relation to the prop shaft????

Tried gently jacking at nose end to see if it will line up-wont budge

Forgot to mention that if you load it up (7 seater) noise,rumble is less noticeble

Already thought that it might be engine,gearbox mounts effecting prop angle but keep coming back to the diff as on mine its at a slight angle and on his it's parallel with the ground

Every things well rusty up in the "a frame region",thought that ball job thing might be seized but rubber gaitors intact and I dont realy know how to check with out having it in bit's???

[white90]

mine used to have a clonk when changing direction the pinion nut wasn't fully tightened

[steve b]

Hi Jason , in your picture the rubber drive member looks very distorted for one recently replaced and also looks as though its under endthrust. is the rear prop slider joint free to move? not siezed or at the end of its travel?

If you take the rear prop off to check the slider i'd suggest a run up the road with ctr difflock in to see what change there is.This is ok to do as BM says just bear in mind you'll be in 2wd and there will be clunks from trans cos of slack in the boxs.

cheers steveb

[Jason2]

B)-->

QUOTE(steve b @ May 12 2007, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Jason , in your picture the rubber drive member looks very distorted for one recently replaced and also looks as though its under endthrust. is the rear prop slider joint free to move? not siezed or at the end of its travel?

If you take the rear prop off to check the slider i'd suggest a run up the road with ctr difflock in to see what change there is.This is ok to do as BM says just bear in mind you'll be in 2wd and there will be clunks from trans cos of slack in the boxs.

cheers steveb

Steveb

The rubber drive member is distorted because of the angle of the prop with the rear diff and can't see for the life of me why,nothing seems bent,rotten,bust or buggered,could that ball joint on the a frame be causing this if it was bent,bust or seized???

I took one end of the rear drive shaft off to check UJ's,slider and they are ok,The garage had already taken rear prop off noted that the noise had gone and put it down to the transfer box been stuffed.

Cheers Jason