Need powersteering.

[bill van snorkle]

This thread is getting a bit old, but I have been away for a couple of months and haven't been able to reply up til now.

Yes my vehicle is fitted with a Toyota LandCruiser FJ/HJ 60 power steering box that fits to the outside of the chassis rail and does away with the need to butcher the chassis in any way. Aside from my own truck I have performed similar conversions on 3 other rigs. Vehicles with standard width series 2 or 3 axles require wheel rims with greater positive offset such as forward control or 1 ton rims to provide clearance between the tyre and steering box on full articulation at full lock. The way I mount the box to the chassis is to cut a piece of 1/2'' thick steel plate to the same profile as the chassis dumb iron but 2'' deeper. I drill four 1/2'' diameter holes at each corner of the mounting plate and clamp the plate to the dumb iron with a 1/2''unf x 4''long bolt and nut through each hole above and below the top and bottom of the box section and through 2 pieces of 2''x1''structural steel channel on the inside of the dumb iron. The bolts pass through 3'' long anticrush tubes between the steering box mounting plate and the channel pieces. This method does away with the need to drill holes and weld crush tubes in the dumb iron itself, and spreads the steering loads over a much larger area of the chassis rail . To attach the steering box to the mounting plate I drill the 4 steering box mounting flange holes into the plate and then plunge a countersinking drill into the backside (chassis side) of the holes and fasten the box to the plate with 4 1/2'' UNC countersunk Unbrako bolts and nuts. The steering column and shaft is a hybrid of series column and wheel, cut away series steering box, to retain the column/firewall support, and a combination of RangeRover and LandCruiser steering shaft universal joints.

As it happens, one of the vehicles ,a series3 swb I converted has been left with me for a couple of weeks to have some other work done. This truck also has a coil spring front suspension conversion with RangeRover axles using the same '' clamp on'' mounting system that has just gone through engineering approval. The engineer stated that in light of Rovers usage of thin steel for chassis construction, and after studying this mounting system he will never entertain the more common weld on conversions again.

If I get an opportunity I will take some photos of the power steering and coil conversion and post it here if anyone is interested.

Bill.

[Lewis]

If I get an opportunity I will take some photos of the power steering and coil conversion and post it here if anyone is interested.

Bill.

I'm interested in seeing the pictures Bill, its always good to see some of your work with your unconventional approach to problems - it gives me new ideas

Lewis

[Gareth Dickens]

Thank you all

I think I have found my sollution. I have aquired a Nissan p/s pump with it's own reservoir and a Mercedes 123 p/s box. I am mounting it on the R/H side of my chasis using a 10mm plate (3/8") I am not removing the transfer box in the front R/H of the chasis. I am installing it in place of the steering box at the back, but a little more fwd. So I should have rotary motion into the p/s box and linear motion from it into the front xfer box. I only need to shorten the shaft between the p/s box and the xfer box. I will adjust the amount of wheel travel by shortening the p/s box output arm to aprox 2/3 the length of the current steering box output arm.

Now, questions. Does anybody see any problem with this setup? If my p/s box is so close to my steering wheel, will I still need a slider type shaft setup?

Thanks

Gareth

[Gareth Dickens]

Using this setup I will have longitudenal loads on the rhs of my chasis.There shouldn't be any side loads.

Please tell me that this could work.

Gareth

[bill van snorkle]

Using this setup I will have longitudenal loads on the rhs of my chasis.There shouldn't be any side loads.

Please tell me that this could work.

Gareth

Make sure your Merc steering box rotates in the correct direction. I know of a couple of people who have attempted similar conversions in the past only to find on completion that when they turn the steering left or right, the vehicle turns in the opposite direction.

Personally I have seen far too many broken and twisted Landrover relay shafts to contemplate mounting a powered box before the relay unit. Compare the diameter of the relay shaft at its thinnest section (between the friction cones) with the diameter of the Pitman shaft of a LandCruiser, Nissan or LandRover power steering box and you will see what I mean. If I was to do it the way you propose, at the very least I would use a LandRover 101 forward control relay box which has a much thicker shaft.

Bill.

[FridgeFreezer]

^^^ What Bill said, I was all set to use a G-Wagen box on the 109 (they're massive, even DirtyDiesel can't break them!) only to find it turned the wrong way bally gerry engineering

[Jon White]

I Would be inclined to loose the relay unit entirely and to have as few linkages in the system as possible, as it all helps to reduce the vagueness of the steering.

I'm running a 6 bolt 90 box on my series and it drives so much better! No more sawing at the wheel just to keep it going in a straight line!

Jon

[bill van snorkle]

I'm interested in seeing the pictures Bill, its always good to see some of your work with your unconventional approach to problems - it gives me new ideas

Lewis

Ok I'll be starting work on that vehicle in a few days and will take some photos then.

Strange! All the time I was away on holidays I was itching to get stuck in and get my hands dirty. Now that I am back I can't be arsed for a while.

Bill.

[Gareth Dickens]

I will turn the p/s box arm through 180 deg to make it turn correctly. You say these fwd relay box shafts tend to bend? How easily does this happen? Is it with normal steering setup or a p/s box set up the way I want to do it?

[Gareth Dickens]

And would I need a slider?

[FridgeFreezer]

I will turn the p/s box arm through 180 deg to make it turn correctly. You say these fwd relay box shafts tend to bend? How easily does this happen? Is it with normal steering setup or a p/s box set up the way I want to do it?

At a guess, any setup that keeps the relay but boosts the force going into it will bend the shaft, it's only designed to have a person hanging on the end. I also think you're barking up the wrong horse without a paddle trying to fit a steering box that turns the wrong way.

[bill van snorkle]

I will turn the p/s box arm through 180 deg to make it turn correctly. You say these fwd relay box shafts tend to bend? How easily does this happen? Is it with normal steering setup or a p/s box set up the way I want to do it?

I did a 1 month stint a few years ago just rebuilding relay boxes. It is common enough that I wouldn't want to risk it on a vehicle that may find itself in remote locations far from civilization and help. The latest incidence I heard of was on a group outing far out in the high mountain regions.

The truck without PS on 35 simex ET's snapped the relay shaft in 2. the bottom half dropped down attached to the relay arm and drag link,2 of the 4 split cones fell out and were lost in the bushes. the truck with its occupants was lucky to not have ended up going off a precipice.

Apparently by joining 3 12volt batteries together the group was able to weld the broken shaft. By pressing one of the split cones into the mud they made a casting mould, and by pouring molten lead

(melted down wheel balance weights) into the mould they were able to cast 2 more cones to effect a good enough repair to get back to civilization.

Do you have the capabilities to do the above ? And if you do, Would you really want to be put to the test?

[Gremlin]

I broke 1 relay shaft and twisted another, no power steering! I am still running with it but someday it will make way for a real power steering box. I cannot see how it will hold up with more force transmitted into it by the PS.

Grem

[bill van snorkle]

And would I need a slider?

Sorry I missed this earlier.

Sliders or slip joints are only really required on vehicles such as Rangerovers and Disco's, where the vehicle body is attached to the chassis frame via flexible rubber mountings. Series LandRovers and Defender bodies are hard bolted to the chassis and dont require slip joints although I do use one to minimise the risk of the steering column spearing me in the chest in the event of a heavy front end shunt.

Bill.

[bill van snorkle]

I also think you're barking up the wrong horse without a paddle

We once had a State (Queensland) Premier, an absolute tyrant who spoke like that. The sad thing is that he wasn't joking. The happy thing is that he is no longer alive. The sad thing is that I had nothing to do with his passing.

Bill.

[Gareth Dickens]

OK, back to the drawing board but still using the same p/s box. This is going to involve a lot of stripping again. Would it be easier to use a 110 Defender steering column than modifying my existing steering column and removing the steering box.

[Tonk]

a defender steering column will fit in a series, also that gives you the right splines to use the knuckles and link bar from a defender/rangie or disco

[FridgeFreezer]

We once had a State (Queensland) Premier, an absolute tyrant who spoke like that.

America have a president like that, and they re-elected him and everything

[Gareth Dickens]

I have looked at building the merc p/s box into the front but it would take a lot of modification. My relay box shaft is about 20 mm (13/16") thick. Are you sure I will break or bend that shaft. Bill mentioned a 101 has a thicker relay box shaft. Do you perhaps know how thick it is? How thick were the shafts that were broken by others?

[FridgeFreezer]

I'm not sure how much more evidence you need that you will break the shaft? Lots of people also snap sector shafts in LR PAS boxes (which is the same thing) which is why I went for Disco-II PAS box on the 109 as they don't have the design "flaw" (an undercut in the shaft) that the other boxes do. The D2 shaft is actually not far off the G-Wagen one, which is nice

A 101 relay may be stronger but I would imagine the price will offset any benefit.

From another point of view, why have the extra moving parts in the system when you can have a "normal" defender steering column & shaft down to a single steering box that is then connected to the wheels?

You will go round in circles trying to find a way round getting the angle-grinder out, there are a few basic choices:

- A Chris Perfect PAS setup (bolt on but pricey)

- Fit defender PAS (Oh noes, it am teh welding! )

- Fit an electric PAS column (still need a Defender steering box or to do a LOT of engineering of the Series one)

- Bolt something on like Bill has (no welding)

And a defender column will bolt straight onto a Series bulkhead, you just need to make a small bracket to bolt the bottom of the defender column to the Series bulkhead support bracket that used to hold the drop-box.

[Gareth Dickens]

I'm just really trying to get past the hard work and trying to simplify. I am a bit disapointed that my very simple idea has a flaw, but if it weren't so more people would be doing it. What are the risks of cutting my chassis crossmember, and how do I gain the strength back on the chassis. Do you have pictures?

[bill van snorkle]

America have a president like that, and they re-elected him and everything

Yeah, the bible bashing scoundrel I was referring to kept getting voted back in time after time as well.

The 101 relay shaft is considerably thicker and is more than likely up to the job,They are slightly longer than series units but easily fitted, but where you would get hold of one is anyones guess.

Bill.

[FridgeFreezer]

I'm just really trying to get past the hard work and trying to simplify. I am a bit disapointed that my very simple idea has a flaw, but if it weren't so more people would be doing it. What are the risks of cutting my chassis crossmember, and how do I gain the strength back on the chassis. Do you have pictures?

Just put a narrower x-member back in, I used some 100x50 box (I forget the wall thicknes, either 4, 5 or 6mm) with a tube let in to drive the H14W through, here's a rough buildup:

Side plates cut from ~3mm plate and puddle welded to chassis:

Flitch tubes through chassis and cover the top of the box over:

Disco 2 PAS box mounted:

Make new x-member to replace the old one:

Fit Defender steering column, with defender UJ's and a Disco 2 UJ on the end as the D2 box has different splines:

Depending on where exactly you mount the box, and if you use D2 or "normal" you may have to bend the drop arm down to clear the chassis, or grind the leg of the front spring mount down a bit. Before you chop the x-member out, weld a holding piece across the front of the chassis (I used some old 1" box) to stop the chassis rails from moving. I have to say, having done this on the 109 I don't know why people make such a fuss about it, as long as your welding is OK (or whoever does it for you is OK) then you're fine. For the price of the Chris Perfect kit you can buy a brand new PAS box, a decent welder, mask, gas, wire, a grinder and enough metal!

Looking at the piccies it reminds me how much has gone into this vehicle so far, nearly there now, fingers crossed!

[Jon White]

John is that a LHD box?

Jon

[FridgeFreezer]

Not that I'm aware of, it's Adwest code 690 if that helps