Isuzu 2.8 in Defender

[Steve H]

Suitably admonished by Les B for hijacking his thread , I'll repeat my request for Simon P to give us some details on the engine in the 90 he's just bought. B4 the purists flame me ( on this forum,NEVER, surely ), the Isuzu motor is a hell of a lot easier to come by in this part of the world, & I suspect most parts other than the UK, also a heap cheaper & has a very good reputation for reliability. Isuzu make good diesels in general, the 3.0 4jx1 with the Cat type injectors being the exception, The 2.8 4jb1 has been in production since 1988 & still going strong for some markets so there're a few around & most of their bugs have been found by now It would be good to get input from any others who've been down this road, details re adaptors, mods etc, I fancy one with gear driven timing & variable inlet turbo like the International 2.8 TGV developemnt of the 300 TDi that they make in South America. The pump is very similar to the Bosch on the LR motors & just as adjustable.

Cheers, Steve.

[white90]

Jez AKA dollythelw fitted one to his Rangie for the Russia trip he will be in good position to advise you.

[dollythelw]

Jez AKA dollythelw fitted one to his Rangie for the Russia trip he will be in good position to advise you.

Ive done a few now, easy to fit, bombproof, good on fuel and work well with a intercooler, on a 5 speed LT77 or R380 they work well, not so good on an auto unless its running an early 4 speed box as the shift patterns suit it. you can use a 3.1 turbo and injectors for more wallop but a slight pump tweek works well on a standard 2.8. the cambelt takes 5 mins to swap

Heres one I knocked up earlier

[Steve H]

Hi Jez,Thanks for the reply, I PMd you just after your Lake Ladoga trip & meant to follow that up but figured you were busy with your new horse. Some specific questions if I may, if I can remember them,

Does the 3.1 turbo fit straight on the the 2.8 manifold ?

Does this installation use a flat adaptor plate or a modified LR clutch housing?

Do you use a Land Rover clutch or heavier? if so which?

Is the standard ex Trooper sump OK or is some other source advisable?

I'm sure other questions will occur to me as I go but that covers most for now. I would like to see some pics of someones installtions too if there're any available.

Thanks & Cheers, Steve.

[SimonPearson]

Hi Steve,

The Isuzu engine was in my car when I bought it a month ago... but I got the car from the mechanic who installed it, and talked to him extensively about the installation, which looks extremely straightforward.

Mine is a 1989 2.8TD from an Isuzu Trooper LWB. It's mated to a standard LT77 via a Conversion & Precision adapter kit. A C&P kit includes literally everything you need and simply bolts straight on.

Use an Isuzu clutch cover, but a Land Rover clutch plate.

The Isuzu sump is fine and gives plenty of clearance. In fact, one of the benefits of the Isuzu 2.8 is its extremely small size - it's tiny relative to a Tdi and sits waaaaaaaay back in the engine bay.

Use an electric fan.

Downpipe is Isuzu I think, from there back it's a hotch potch of welded together bits n' bobs.... just like most Challenge 90's.

The whole thing looks extremely easy to fit and having driven it on road and off for a month now I can thoroughly recommend the Isuzu 2.8TD. It is, as you say, dirt cheap in comparison with a genuine Tdi, but is far smoother, is noticeably more powerful/faster at mid-range revs and quieter overall. I haven't tested fuel economy yet.

One downside - although very minor, is that there doesn't seem as much low-down grunt as a Tdi. The troque seems to come in a little higher up the rev range, so off-road a slight blip on the throttle is required to get the revs up to say 2,500 rpm before committing to steep slopes. Mind you, now I think of it, most Tdi's I've had you need to rev the nuts off to get up steep slopes too!

What would I ideally like? A V8 with Auto that does 30mpg. Guess I'll be sticking with the Isusu 2.8 for now then! Certainly better than a Tdi, in my opinion.

Also, here in UK on eBlag these Isuzu 2.8's can be bought for between £200-£600 for the complete engine.

Will take photos at the weekend and post.

[dollythelw]

Hi Steve,

I used a whole 3.1 manifold and turbo as I had one kicking around, I'll check the differences at the weekend for you though,

two types of adapter available, the old type is a 10mm plate (good for bullnosing but a pain to fit) or the newer 25mm alli adapter ring

Clutch is landy, Isuzu sump clears the axle nicely, the conversion suits RHD really well as the throtle cable fits, with RHD you need a universal throttle cable and make a bracket to reposition it at the pump end, the isuzu fuel filter is a goodun and easy to site, I'll try and dig out pics of the original "Dolly" she was pretty standardish with a 'suzu lunp

SAAB intercoolers and Rads work best!!!!

Cheers

Jez

[Fishd]

Jez, do you have a site detailing the build of that yellow beastie?

I'm not sure why... but I'm mesmerized! This is meant as a compliment, it's one of the most beautiful ugly things I've ever seen!

[dollythelw]

it aint called pig for nothin

I havent got round to doing a site for it, I didnt think it would be of interest, Ive got hundreds of pics of it through the build so if you want some I can mail them over?

[geoffbeaumont]

I havent got round to doing a site for it, I didnt think it would be of interest, Ive got hundreds of pics of it through the build so if you want some I can mail them over?

Jez, I suspect there's a good deal of interest in the build, even from those of us without the time or resources to contemplate anything on that scale ourselves.

Anyone else think Jez should put those photos up on the web?

[white90]

I'd love to see the build up pics/action stuff

[LR90]

I'd love to see the build up pics/action stuff

Yeh, post em up Jez. its a great piece of work and would be an inspiration for the lot of us.

[bishbosh]

Yep, come on Jez, give us some inspiration!!

[dollythelw]

Im not sure about being able to provide inspiration but I'll knock a website together over the weekend if I can find a copy of frontpage

this is how it started anyway

Pooh brown LHD rotten as hell 3.5 V8, went to Saudi and then ended up in France and then I bought it from Auntie Wainwright aka RRDoctor, it was a mess, the rear bumper came off in my hand an the rear end of the chassis had collapsed

[white90]

[geoffbeaumont]

So how much of that original car actually finished up in Pig?

[Steve H]

Jez, I surely think a build log would be great to see, apart from my obvious interest in the engine install , I thought your Dolly looks awesome & I like to see what went into the entire build, more inspiration for my project.

Cheers, Steve.

[dollythelw]

All of the body work was reused, the bonnet cut down by 4" and rewelded, the shell was reused, the chassis, the axles, brakes, doors, glass, tailgate, rear view mirror (the only think that wasnt butchered in the frenzy), the roof lining was reused.......... erm the rest was mostly made from scratch,

Build log will be built over the weekend, web address to be confirmed..

If you like this one just wait a few months - theres three more cars on the way and they will be much much much groovier

if only I could make a living doing it

[DSN]

Hi there.

I would certainly be interested in some more info about the engine conversion. The TD in my 90 has become ill but rather than spend money on it, I would prefer to upgrade to something with a bit more go.

I have done a little research for tdi's but they do seem to go for a lot of money so the Isuzu route does seem interesting.

Main queries are just how much work it takes to fit and work as this can make them unreliable if so much work required. Main items are:

engine mounts

bellhousing/clutch adaption plate to an LT77. Where from?

Clutch actuation (hydraulic as well? Fit to existing pipework?

Starter and alternator. Any fouling etc.

Fuel pipes. Can they connect and use current fuel filter system?

Vacuum pump useable with current brake servo?

Think these are the main items I can think of. Obviously there may be some of these answers in the build log you are creating so will look at that when you supply the link.

Thanks for any info.

Cheers,

Dan

[dollythelw]

Ive only taken V8s out to fit Isuzus so the CPE conversion kit may be slightly different with a TDI but the clutch and clutch actuator stays Landy (no work needed - but put a new plate, clutch release bearing and pressure plate in - its not worth reusing old ones), the exhaust pipe on an Isuzu is on the drivers side and CPE do a down pipe to mate up to your stock pipe.

CPE (conversion with precision engineering) are on 01246 855520 - tell them Jez sent ya

No issues with fouling of starter or alternator, the Isuzu 2.8 && 3.1 are compact lumps (24" long from backplate to front pulley)

Fuel piping is straightforward (feed and return) it matches straight up to V8 plumbing so TDI plumbing will be no issue.

Engine mounts are included in the kit - piece of cake to fit

Vacuum pump works well - if anything the brakes will sharpen up.

Pick up a rotten 2.8 turbo with a good engine for £250 ish, Fit a new cam belt (takes 5mins with the engine out) the conversion kit is about £300 if memory serves me well, I run SAAB intercoolers and Rads (Intercooler £20 from a breakers and Rad £90 new) eleccy fan from a SAAB for a tenner, couple of sillicone elbows and you are off and running.

Isuzus can take a fair amount of tweeking with no adverse affect to reliability, Dolly (my old combat coloured Rangie) has sat at 80mph to Slovakia and back god knows how many times, competed in Hungary, toured Croatia, Bosnia and most of Eastern Europe never missing a beat - the current owner is hammering off to Siberia in her..

hope that helps

Cheers

Jez

[Steve H]

One thing that has occurred to me over the weekend that Simon or Jez may be able to answer, is that my project when it happens, is most likely to be based on a V8 Rangie or Discovery. Not being that familar with this generation of LRs I have a slight concern re bell housing length. Jez I imagine has gone the same route but put it in a Rangie body, albeit much modded so had more room to begin with, Simons installation presumably used a Defender length bell housing to his LT77. Has anyone got any idea how much longer a Rangie /Discovery V8 bell housing is & is this likely to give me grief? The compactness of the engine is comforting.

Another query that you raised Jez , you said you'd fitted, as I understood it , 3.1 injectors in a 2.8 head. I'd thought that they would be different, the 2.8 being direct injected & the 3.1 indirect, this sounds like a simple way to get more grunt.

& another for Jez, what size is a Saab intercooler? Saabs are like rocking horse pooh out here but there're plenty of Rice burners run intercoolers to source one from. A rough idea of the size would be good.

Many thanks, Steve.

[Bush65]

... I have a slight concern re bell housing length... Has anyone got any idea how much longer a Rangie /Discovery V8 bell housing is...

I just measured 2 bellhousing that I have here.

Rangie V8 LT77 bellhousing is 305mm long

Disco 300 Tdi R380 bellhousing is 246mm long

So the rangie V8 bellhousing is 59mm longer.

[Bush65]

I have an Isuzu 4BD1-T (3.9 litre direct injection turbo) in my bushie (started as a rangie).

These may be a little less civilised than the 2.8, and they are larger/heavier overall, but they are a great engine - IMHO the best engine ever fitted stock (Aus only) to a rover. Great torque from idle. The cruise well enough and are very economical. They will typically do half a million trouble free km before needing an overhaul.

The 4BD1 to LT95 bellhousings are getting hard to find now.

I doubt any LT77 would be able to survive behind a 4BD1-T. The LT85 does not last too long without the maxi-drive bearing mods. I have heard of a few using the R380, but these would have to be the later models with stronger mainshaft and larger bearings.

[Steve H]

I just measured 2 bellhousing that I have here.

Rangie V8 LT77 bellhousing is 305mm long

Disco 300 Tdi R380 bellhousing is 246mm long

So the rangie V8 bellhousing is 59mm longer.

That doesn't sound too extreme, I wonder how that compares to the length of a defender bell housing?

Thanks for the info, Steve.

[dollythelw]

a 2.8 fits nicely into a Rangie on a V8 bellhousing, the only tightspot is the acoustic camcover which is about 10mm short of banging into the firewall, I remove the butterfly from the inlet manifold (tap the brass inserts and slap in a couple of M8's to fill the void) this leaves a sufficient clearance under the bonnet.

The early 3.1 was an overbored 2.8, still mechanical direct injection just a bit more umph for your pennies

Thats a SAAB cooler in the original Pig spec - to be honest I should have stuck using this instead of getting to clever for my own good

Pig website still in build - should have a lash up ready for Thursday night

[Nick H]

Ive done a few now, easy to fit, bombproof, good on fuel and work well with a intercooler, on a 5 speed LT77 or R380 they work well, not so good on an auto unless its running an early 4 speed box as the shift patterns suit it. you can use a 3.1 turbo and injectors for more wallop but a slight pump tweek works well on a standard 2.8. the cambelt takes 5 mins to swap

Heres one I knocked up earlier

Hi Dollythelw

I am thinking of fitting a 2.8 in a LWB safari SIII, ( It is running with a 4182 Perkins at the moment). Have you any info on this? I'd like to know what you think about leaving the 4 speed box in - will it survive? Or would you put a 5 speed box in and change the axels - to stage I, maybe.

I have been to a local Isuzu dealer to ask some advice, and he said parts would be really difficult to identify without the chassis number of the original vehical ( I'm talking about starter motors, alternaters etc). I found someone who says he is selling new imported 2.8's from Japan, the local dealer says it would be very risky because of tracing parts (he says Isuzu do not stamp a part number on them).

Do you know what the BHP and torque of these engines is? What sort of MPG would you expect to get and what sort of top speed/ cruising speed, as I am covering about 20,000 miles a year in my vehical at the moment. How well do they start on a very cold morning, as my Perkins is a bit smokey!

Thanks, Nick H