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** MegaSquirting a V8 - "Basics of How to" ... The A-Z Saga


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You require an MS1 V3.0 board .............. depends if you want to build or you want to buy it built.........MSII is something different and unless you want the extra bell and whistles, then MS1 does the job admirably.

You need to speak to Bill Shurvington who is an authorized supplier .............. pm him on here or hang around a while and he will be along with the detail.

:)

Ian

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People, some help please.... I have been reading and re-reading this post, at first glazed eyes and a head ache but, and this is the problem, my EDIS8 has been purchased from a very nice man on E-blag USA, triggerwheel has an order for 6 bolt 36-1 and bracket for sensor, 2 coilpacks from the breakers are on the bench, wiring diagrams for EDIS and MS have been down loaded from here and other forums and i am reading as much as i can (a bit at a time). Some advice as to where i can buy a MS2 would be a great help. Its a 3.9 with lucas hot wire thats on the bench awaiting attention. It looks like ive got some late nights it the garage ahead. :rolleyes:

Jeff

If I was you I would go for a

MS1 V3 (version 3) running MS Spark n Extra (thats ignition via 'EDIS') and the 'Extra' being fuel.

Its what the majority here use and have grown up with, and you'd be very picky if you think that you need MS2 over MS1 V3 SnE :lol:

As for kits - PM Bill Shurvington or Fridge on this forum, I can recomend both, and if you wnat it built then "Fridge de Solderer" iz da man :lol:, and has built mine and many others, as when you see the kit its a big silvery box with several bags of shakey rattley bits n things many with wires sticking out :)

You'll also need the EDIS8 Pigtail (plug with some wires sticking out) and a VR Sensor for the crank and some brackets etc. Using MS1V3 SnE means that many on this forum can send you complete ECU Files to get it running and help with the fuine tunning, MS2 has less here using it tho there are a few. MS2 will allow a stepper Motor from a 3.9 vs MS1 which won't - but IMVHO the Volvo one (see above earlier - a PWM VAlve) does a far smoother and better job :)

HTH

Nige

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Question... Im trying to memorise the wiring diagram and get it all straight in my head so on the diagram on HFHs post it shows, for the EAV, red & green to pin 31 and on the list it says r&g to 32, green & white to pin 29 also the wires that come come out of the EAV, which colour goes where? For the ATS would a Rover 214/6 open element, green or brown depending whats needed, be any good? confused0006.gif

Jeff

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AH HA

That has a fatal flaw in it - its the deliberate thread mistake :rofl:

The wiring diagram shows 4 wires to the Stepper motor, this doesn't work on MS 1 V3 only a Volvo PWM

You only Need 2 wires to run the Volvoy PWM thingumybobbywatsitjobbie (not to technical for you am I)

But I am F if I know which 2 wires go where onto the ECU, ..........but a grown up will advise when they come along :)

More help will come, for you that is, for me its too late :P

Nige

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As I recall, the PWM needs a +12v, GND and the FIDLE connection. Some may not need a separate GND or +12v. The ECU has to have the FIDLE output transistor changed from the standard 2n2222 to a TIP121 (or is is 122?) and a flyback diode added - this is all described in the MegaManual and is easily done.

The connection, unless you move it during modification, will be the standard FIDLE pin on the ECU connector.

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Ok... for me this is... difficult but not inpossible. HFH im with you, FF, please can you explain in plain english (lorry driver speak) what the FIDLE connection is.. I havent started on the manwell in its full version yet.

Jeff

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FIDLE (Fast Idle Solenoid Connection) is the red/blue wire, pin 30 of the ECU connector:

DB37_V3_EDIS.jpg

If you're not using the ignition driver you can mount the TIP122 in its place and it makes for a neat build:

V3_Mods_sm.jpg

(This is wired for EDIS, fan control, tacho output, and PWM idle - the TIP122 is top right, the flyback diode is on the back)

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Another question.. I have LPG fitted to my bobtail and im told the EDIS8 will still work even if the MS1 SnE is disconected, so in theory i can run the LPG with the EDIS8 in "default mode" ie: 10 dbtdc. But i realise that you need the MS1 SnE to advance the timing higher up the rev range. So has anyone a map to run LPG on MS1 SnE or any suggestions as to the best way to maybe stop the pulse to the injectors or just set the DC to 0... Because the LPG is not injected there is not much scope for great performance inprovements but as the bobtail is my daily driver i might get it to at least run alot better than it does on carbs and a dizzy, then i can afford to blast about on petrol from time to time (only within the legal limits). :ph34r:

Jeff

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A snippet that may be of interest........

SWMBO was moaning about her old laptop, she had a point

Around 9 yrs oldish, Sub 1 GHZ Pent (think an 800 !!) with a stunning 256mb ram (I upgraded her from 128 :lol:) a 10GB Harddrive, and a regaulr number of blue screens of death :(

So we bought a new one,

A Toshiba Tecra A9 153, about £440 inc the dreaded VAT and Free Delivery from www.ebuyer.com

Dual Core Pentium 2GB of Ram and it does fair fly :) its lovely makes my desktop look antique (which it is :( )

I also was some what stunned to find it has a SERIAL port - Oooooh just right for MS :)

'Serial Ports' are VERY Rare nowdays, I haven't come across any others since I had a look today for curiousity...

.....and USB and MS software ....with Serial to USB convertors are reknown for being flakey,

....so if your in the market for a new laptop ...........its reaaly worth a lookie :)

Sadly "I have been warned" in very very strong terms that its off limits :ph34r:

I like a challenge :unsure:

Nige

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Tuning Update

WUE - Warm Up enrichment - can be a bit of a Right Royal PITFA to get right.

As probably mentioned somewhere up there ^^^^ previously you only get ONE go a day, and its very much tunning by ear and expereince as to what feels right. The WUE wizard in Megatune is good, actually very good, but I was always of the opinion I could maybe get the WUE better so that starting with the lifted RPM and then the drop to tickover as it warms up could be better than what I had got so far, prob was its one go a day and other things have to be done, so it becomes a "That will do" coupled with a "one day when I have a moment I'll try...." sort of issue :)

Cue Phil Tobin, the builder of Megalogviewer and now builder of the new Tuner Studio software. This natty new software is still in the building (alpha) stage, and is very much work in progress, but releases of what he has produced so far are available, and being such a fan of MLV I have been 'getting into TS' from the outset. :)

One of his ideas was a change in the display of WUE, this shows the various set points as plots on a graph vs the "Table of numbers" in Megatune, as such when I was having a good play with it yesterday, on the WUE table it becomes almost a instant vision of where the WUE table could be improved. In real terms we would be looking for a degrading smooth curve betweem the start up point and the 0% no enrichment VE table only fuelling point ast tickover and full temp.

Here is the graph pre the recent Tuner Studio Tweak , .....and next to it the new 'TS' Tweaked Version :) :

post-22-1216020418_thumb.jpg post-22-1216020433_thumb.jpg

As you can see in the 1st graph my "Guesstimate" wasn't far wrong,

.......but you can see the dips drops and peaks,

placing your mouse on the set points you simply drag the points to the new required position - thus smotthing the curve,

the 2nd graph shows this now done, the WUE table is then resaved as a MSQ file ...........and I uploaded it to the ECU

:) Kin hell smoother than ever :)

More to come I am sure, if you wnat to have a play with this new MS Software then it is here :

http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/alpha/

029V is not yet on there I am using 029q which seems 99% OK :)

Nige

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My EDIS8 MS1 V3 with switchable maps and cooling fan out has been orderd. The 3.9 is on the floor and the loom is being sorted out so it will match up to my 84 RR.Whilst its out im fitting the trigger wheel and sensor for the EDIS8 and the coil packs will be mounted on the plenum some where... bosch idle valve will be fitted as well. Then all ive got to do is drop the 3.9 in and wire it all up, run the fuel lines, fit the HP fuel pump and lots of other stuff before i turn the key and start to learn even more... :blink: still, it keeps me out of the pub... :ph34r:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thinking of the IAT sensor.

I haven't ordered one, (oversight) and someone listed a bosch replacement number.

Nige, you mentioned listing a part number but I couldn't find it.

Does anyone think using a rover coolant temp or fuel temp sensor is a bad idea?

Are they both calibrated the same?

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The Rover coolant temp sensor will work fine, it's got a different temperature curve to the GM one which is the MS default so you'll need to use Easytherm to recalibrate it.

After you do this, run the copyini.bat file - this copies the new coolant temp curve into Megatune's folder so it can report the correct temperature on it's gauge.

A good check is from a completely cold start - the IAT and CLT readouts should read about the same temp as the outside air temperature.

For IAT sensor, I ordered from diyautotune along with a aluminium bung which i welded into bit of 70mm aluminium tube - try and position the sensor well upstream otherwise the heat from the plenum will soak into the sensor when the engine is off and can make hot starting troublesome.

Edit: Whoops never saw the last page of the thread.

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....... try and position the sensor well upstream otherwise the heat from the plenum will soak into the sensor when the engine is off and can make hot starting troublesome........

:) Young BBC should be along soon with some info and an update on this very issue of heat vs MAP

and how further tweaks in MS can assist with sorting this too....

coming soon to a thread near you ...:lol:...

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I use RS part 151-215, it's a tiny bead thermistor and has the same curve as the GM item. Costs about £1.50, I usually chuck one in with MS ECU's that I know are going to Rover owners. The Rover coolant sensor works fine, again I usually update the firmware with the correct curve on ECU's destined for V8s.

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Thanks Fridge.

I'll check out the curve. There are some nice plastic ones on vauxhalls which look good to fit too.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter. I just noticed that i forgot to order one from the states, so was looking at the alternatives from the uk.

I never realised how many systems were using this different style of sensing air movement.

He says beetling off to look on the 216 inlet.....

Like many starting on this megasquirt road, every day is school day.

I haven't even started soldering yet!

I will start a thread on it when I begin.

Nige has answered a lot of the later tuning questions, but his install was fairly unique, where as mine will be an interface to existing 3.9 engine loom, with as little alteration as possible, as mentioned before I like redundancy, and I like the ability to go back to standard quickly. I agree with fridge that i'll probably not need to do it, but it means that I can remove my kit and still sell the thing....

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Just a quick update..... had a parcel from daxtojeiro today with tacho out, switchable maps & cooling fan out. Also been down to Maplin and purchased a USB to serial port converter (why oh why cant i find a 15 to 9 pin male convertor???) So ive got to get my finger out if im to be ready for the next event in Sept and the L2B and our club week end at Slindon in Oct... I will be posting for help from all who have made this thread the most informative and full of information and full of stuff and,and well with out this thread i would have taken a lot longer to get to where i am now. Anyone who is just starting, i have one piece of advice... EVERYTHING you need to know is in this thread. IF you read and read again, trust me, i am 50% through my project and i am about to fit the new engine with MS V3 in my 84 RR, the info you need is all there. viva la revolution! :ph34r:

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Hope this may be of use to some others !

I have decided to use an Old Laptop (low spec and mega cheap) 800 MHz 256 RAM dedicated to MS MT MLV and TS post-22-1218022507.gif ... yes I know :P

As such with NEVER any intenet, I can make the PC "Fly" by having Win 98 as the Operating System vs the RAM hungry and slow XP, ...and so the saga started.

Getting W98SE on to it was not too tricky, ....with a bit of help from Jon White re Drivers for Displaya and moral support - ta matey :) ....

....but getting all the MegaSquirt + Megalog Viewer, + Tuner Studio, + Java and + Megatune etc was a F nightmare !

Here are some handy links to save you HOURS of trawling should you need them ....

MANY Pendrives / or USB Pens etc just won't work in W98,

These do, as I have one, and you can get the download drivers from the website,

nice little pens to, ....more and more of these now just do not support W98

Download : http://www.fujifilm.co.uk/consumer/digital...-drive-1gb-16gb

For Java for Win 98 OS go here : http://java.com/en/download/windows98me_manual.jsp I used the 15MB Offline one, this is needed to make MLV link and work with MT

For loading MLV the early Windows systems don't seem to have the later install packages called '.msi' vs the better known '.exe'

For the msi install update for W98

go here : http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...02-DE3BB768148F

You need to install after downloading the 'InstMsiA.exe' file, this will then load MLV as it will put .msi onto W98 and will allow you to get MLV loaded

Hope this is of use to others in the future, and the PC on W98 is amazingly fast, if you think about it many W98 PCs had 32mb ram, maybe 64mb this has 256mb :)

Who needs Memory hungry XP with the clunky service packs 1 2 3 and then Firewalls, antivirus etc at al which slow it down even more..when its a non internet dedicated Laptop :) ?

post-22-1218022197.gif

Nige

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