** MegaSquirting a V8 - "Basics of How to" ... The A-Z Saga

[TomG]

I read somewhere on the msextra forum that a guy had good improvements with 4 squirts (per engine cycle) and Simultaneous (injector staging) so thought i'd give it a try.

I've tried running 2 squirts alternating and more recently 4 squirts alternating. I hadn't tried 4 simultaneous before as i'd heard it gives less resolution / precision around idle and less at the top end due to injector open / close time.

Switched to 4 squirts simultaneous, fired it up and seems to run smoother.. tapped the accelerator and it nearly stalled.. previously i was running huge numbers for acceleration enrichment (it didn't seem to pick up well otherwise) vis:

v/s | ms

25.1 | 20.0

12.0 | 10.0

5.1 | 8.0

2.0 | 2.0

This proved way too much extra fuel for 4 simultaneous so reduced these to (initially):

v/s | ms

25.1 | 8.0

12.0 | 4.0

5.1 | 2.0

2.0 | 0.5

And went for a drive and wide-band log and remap of VE... engine seemed to respond better all round, particularly with quick throttle stabs.

The VE remap did change the table a fair bit but AFR values looked good.

Seems to suit my engine better so thought i'd post it up, will give it a thorough test this weekend..

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

I seem to now get a regular selection of PMs querying or asking re info on the tunning side of MS using MLV, a bit like the "What welder should I buy" threads that appear, rather than keep answering them I thought I would do a further post all about the tunning side of the MLV program, and, possibly of more value, how to interpret the data the key points to look for and how to manage the results to gain what you are after - a smooth well tuned V8 (in the case )

Couple of points straight away -

• There is nothing here that I have "Designed"
  
• The stuff below is purely what I have learnt form using the frankly "Superb" MLV Program -its my understanding here, and I maybe wrong, the software however is unlikley to be !
  

OK

If you have read this far in the thread you'll know a bit about MLV how it works and the basics as to how to switch it on and analyse the info,

what we will deal with here are the following regualrly asked questions :

• How and what does MLV NB tune to 'AFR Wise' ?
  
• (Translation : how does in know how lean how rich to set each cell ?)
  
• Areas to manually look at ?
  
• Areas that MLV has issues with ?,
  
• What they are and how to deal with them ?
  
• Using MLV to tune for a 'specific issue / concern'
  
• Adjusting a MLV tuned table manually to improve the overall state of fuelling and why
  
• And how ?
  

1st I will use a BLANK VE Table so you can see how I end up with the 'scrawlled mess' multiple thoughts and changes I do ...and what it all means

Here is a completely blank VE Table :

There are loads of MAPs on here already to "Give you a head start", .......this is to just simplyfy the process.

The next thing to do is to draw on here the 'cells' that may cause issues with getting readings for all sorts of reasons.....

These could be cos you

• do not wnat to rev the engine this high so soon (more later) but,
  
• more often these cells will be that it reality they are almost impossible to get the engine into,
  
• for example say 600 RPM and MAXIMUM KPA (flat out at 600 RPM )
  
• similarly nearly flat out at 600, etc, then 600 rpm and NO THROTTLE - this would normally be followed by a stall, hardly a accuarte scenario for logging !
  

Bearing in mind also the MLV does "Ignore" certain limits - less than 600 rpm - more than X RPM etc etc, so these I 'draw' on,

you MAY occasionally find it has logged within these areas, but its a case of just aware and 'doubting' how useful the info is,

again becuase MS Interpolates (more later) between the cells these need to be set fairly accuaretly - but how to do this when they are now visted during a drive around ? - more later

For the moment 'sort of accept' these are the cells :

As you can see there are blocks

• Low RPM and LOW MAP,
  
• Some at LOW RPM and HIGH MAP
  
• And a few at HIGH RPM and LOW MAP.
  
• As mentioned unlikely these will either EVER be visted or "Not often / not overly accurate"
  

Then I mark the MAXIMUM RPM obtained either during the drive or that I want to look at,

on the most recent logging sessions - these the RPM did not reach 5800 but was around 5600-5700,

so a Line is drawn to basically "remind" me when studying the data to "Ignore" the right hand side of this vertical line and then add manually

Now, on the RHS you have an area that is 2x unlikley to be visted 1 part due to me and driving it into this zone RPM wise,

and 2nd cos its unlikely to be accurate anyway, .............thus the data in these cells is even less to be relied upon when manually recalculating fields

The next bit is more "Intuative".

With a Mate in the passenger seat just go for a drive, say around 45 mins.

Pay attention to the enegine and ghow it is running, note when it does anything you don't really "like"

and then shout "NOW" to mate who notes the RPM the MAP and what it was that was "Not Right".

For instance on mine I have a few things that didn't seem as good as they could be.

• The tickover - rough as a badger a*se (not a tech term don't worry ) - it WOULD tick over but tended to "Hunt" the revs going up and down a bit not steady not smooth, bordering on stalling then repicking up, and generally "Not Nice"
  
• At "Certain" rpm when crusing it sort of "Hunted" ie it "Lurched" not smooth, a mini hiccup the rpm moved a tad but it was minor - but F irritating.
  
• At Certain Higher RPMs this did the same but worse, ie in 3rd highish revs looking to overtake holding and waiting - it lurched a bit
  
• Spits and coughs when changing gears at Highish RPMs, sometimes worse than others.
  

Now back at base these should be identified on the MAP as the "Not 100% Happy Areas", but the note kept - see later

These then a plotted to the Printout, I had 4 areas

• Tickover - 60/70 KPA 600 and 1000 RPM
  
• Mid Range 4 x -
  
• 20/30 KPA and 3000-4500 RPMish
  
• 40/50/60 KPA and 3000-4000 RPMIsh
  
• 70/80 KPA and 3500-4000 RPMish
  
• 70/80 KPA and 4500-5000 RPMish
  

These then are recorded on the log

The next thing to get clear in your mind is the way MLV "Tunes"

Basically at V HIGH RPM and MAX MAP (greatest BHP) you need MORE Fuel than say crusising along,

this is done by MLV having built in a preset "Target AFR", here is a copy of the MAP it uses to tune to below :

When you study this you can see it varies between 14.7:1 for cruising and then richening those cells for more fuel,

so when it tunes it works out the richness target too, basically my advice here is to leave well alone !

Lastly on MLV I have reset the graphs to show basic essential info and "Clear up" the miraid of what is show graphically,

this can always be reset but I have found the following nice and clear and easier to follow

• Graph 1 - RPM and MAP ONLY
  
• Graph 2 - CT ONLY
  
• Graph 3 - TP and SPARK Advance
  
• Graph 4 - O2 ONLY
  

To set these click on the coloured marker LHS of the graph select what you want.

To unselect - ie have nothing - select the 'blank' at the top of the list, my MLV now opens and looks like this :

OK

Now you go for a drive,

datalogging as you go,

about 30 mins,

and all styles of driving you are trying to hit as many of the 144 cells as you can so just "Giving it large" won't do .

I deliberately go and 'find' traffic jams ....and move bit ....by bit lurching.... starting stopping etc, ....then criusing ....then blasting up and down hils etc etc.

Then when the traffic is quiet I get with the help of the passenger to "Visit" specially "Those special areas" (no not THOSE sort of special areas) which I am unhappy with and spend a few minutes if possible in each,

I had 5 inc tickover,

so my 2 logs were around 1 hour 10 mins total,

I uploaded the changes each time, arriving back at base with the new MS Program conatining the uploads from both logs.

This is where up to now I would have stopped, .........this now is what I do to work out the changes and as to accept override tune or modify.....

The reason for this retune was becuase of the error I did in having a part open EAV, blocked off this gave me the need to redo, but I had been learning and studying and thinking through what I will now outline.

Now go for another drive switch off the PC and ask yourself 'better or worse' and in which areas maybe ??

Then after 30 mins or so return to base, now we will look at further tweaking :

Tickover.

Look at the 4 cells that I have for my tickover (if you what to see where yours is Megatune and engine on tickover 2nd tab (basic settings) > Fuel VE Table 1

This will then highlight where the engine is currently for its fueling

Mine sat 60/70 KPA and 600-1000 RPM

Those 4 cells were :

36 34

32 30

Now, although these cells do interpolate going from 36 to 30 or 34 to 30 at such low rpm will magnify the settings, and as such the lumpy tickover, the 2x data logs and where I madfe the engine sit on tickover in traffic etc stop start etc, not just on the drive gave new settings of

25 32

29 34

Not a lot of help you would say, maybe not but looking above and around these 4x cells showed the general movement, jumping ahead here now and the data sheets later will show all, but to say that having studied and tweaked MANUALLY I now have

34 34

31 32

And the tickover is much sweeter.......but back to the how....

I now screen dump and print off the ORIGINAL PRE 2x datalogged VE Table, then to the left of each cell I write in the value it is now having done the logging x2 - a "Before and suggested After" sheet. This then shows me

• Cells that have HUGELY been revalued
  
• Cells that have NO CHANGE AT ALL
  
• Cells that have had minor Changes
  
• The "Problem Areas" and what the cells there have done with me forcing the driving into these zones
  
• AND the changes to the cells around those problem areas
  

This takes some time to do, but once you have it with all the other issues and areas lines and drawing on it you have this mess

The 1st step is to revue all the cells one by one

Look at

HOW MUCH have the changed, have they changed just a bit and richer of leaner ? (richer = higher number leaner = lower)

Whats happened to the cells around them, and which cells have moved HUGELY - say more than 10 or even 20% which way and cells around them etc.

Studying this eventually has you see "Blips" or areas that have been hugely revised, ask yourself generally did the engine feel better before or AFTER the 2x loggings ?

If worse then look to see what the changes are to the areas you think are worse, if better then the same. Frankly mine seemed 2Better" generally less lurchy, less spitty less lumpy tickover.

So, lets look at the tickover.

1st Heres the dreadfull mess I work from here onwards to the further manually adjusted Table (yet to come) :

You should prob print this one off and has as a ref from now on as without it you'll struggle !

Tickover thoughts.

I'll now go through my logic on tickover changes, these then are reused in the rest of the problem areas and then each cell in turn, this then gave me a manually adjusted sheet, and I fed these manually into the VE table, more of this later.

On the tickover before I started I had a lumpy tickover, the cells x4 it bounced around in was

36 34

32 30

Not very nice, without doubt these were a bit too apart, but which way to go, well 2x logs later and I had

25 32

29 34

the 1000 line upwards was at least now only 2 apart and not 4, but if the revs did drop then the 25 seemed a big drop, the 29 seemed more in line with the other 3, all in all the tickover was better but still not "Right"

However, the cell above the 25 (80/600) WS 53 ! and had now dropped to 39 !next to it 43 > 40 and 50/600 again had dropped from 36 to 27...hmmm

Remember I had made the engine do the areas I wanted so even 15/600 had been visted and dropped 30>27 not much but a trend.

Looking over the entire sheet I could see that the lower RPM had generally been leaned off a bit, some quite a lot 80/600, 85/600, 90/600,

some cells that just seemed "Wrong" ie 100/1500 at 74 to 68 more in keeping with cells either side

and the tickover cell which was lowest (60/1000) richened to 34

This was generally a decent log, but I felt could be improved. the limitations of NB tunning means that another trip may see the same cells go up of down 5%, this is"One of those things" and the limitations of NB tunning, but but reading the MAP VEs and then smoothing out the obvious errors or odd cells and improvment can be gained.

Heres the 'VE' after my efforts, compare with the earlier map printed off and you'll see the changes :

The trick now was to find out, back into the 90, and another trip around,

it WAS smoother, much smoother and generally better than the MLV log,

tickover was steadier, the spits and pops and lurches almost gone, and in some cases they have gone,

Then back home, a quick review of a further log through MLV shows such small changes that all have been ignored, most cells saw changes of less than 3x unit values, this now is the limitation of NB tuning, even with the exellent MLV, which without this I would not be where I am now,

As an example of the quality of this software I will end now with 2x final MAPs.

The 1st was my and BBCs "Best Guess" VE MAP for the Eales, and the 2nd my now manually tweaked MLVd Map .....some 3 months later,

Erm yeah................

Once the new exhuast is done I will be doing WB Tunning, .............so yes more to come,

Lastly visted the MOT station to have emmissions tested, the Question he asked was "Does this 90 have a CAT fitted ?", I said no, he said "Well, its more than good for a non CAT,

frankly its ******* amazing !"

The HCs emmission was too high at 800rpm, ....but at 1090rpm (allowed) all again was well, this wioll be the Hairy cam causing this....so OK for the MOT later this month too "

..................but hope the above helps all with your NB Maps and MLV Tuning ?

Nige

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

You bored tonight ? ...

Well done nige.................that will help potential MS users to get the best from thier system ....................... it should be noted that MS is superior to the OEM setup because it is 'tuned' to suit the engine.

If the HC's are too high for the MOT ...................1200ppm ............. then retard the timing at idle by a couple of degrees.

High HC's = unburnt, or not fully combusted fuel .................... mine at idle is 130ppm and the CO is 2.1%

Ian

[Fatboy]

Ian / Nige,

You have both set very high standards to follow. I didn't want to bung an off topic post in this thread but felt the need to show a bit of appreciation. All of this detailed tech info has removed a bunch of unknown's for us begineers and is bound to reduce the frustrations, Thank you.

I hope to get the axles onto my chassis this weekend and I'll either have a weld-fest to get the bulkhead sorted and mounted or drag all of the various engines out to determine the way forward on the V8 front

Reminder to self, must take some more photo's and bung something in the "Members Vehicles"...

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Close Loop Idle Valve

For me the inclusion of a valve was going to serve two purposes……..

1. Provide a fast idle with a linear degradation to operating temperature.

2. It seemed good idea that if I could get it to work in closed loop mode then in some off road situations it would allow me to idle over obstacles without intervention of the throttle……..

The valves work by applying a PWM (Pulse width Modulation) signal to the solenoid coil of the valve ………….. the true DC (volts) value will depend upon the length of the pulses applied …………… therefore this gives an infinitely variable voltage between 0V and the vehicle max volts (14V). These valves come in two flavours……… rotary or plunger………. the solenoid coils also come in two flavours……… single coil where the valve has a sprung return, or dual coil….. one coil to open and one coil to close.

I opted to use a single coil sprung return rotary valve …………. Taken from a Volvo 940 2.3L turbo . The valve itself has 20mm inlet and the ability of move a large amount of air…..

Installation is easy………. throw away the plenum stepper motor and replace with a blanking plug (thanks HFH) and then plumb the valve between the throttle body air outlet and the plenum EAV inlet. If the valve is mounted just behind the plenum then the valve to plenum pipe can be ETC6370 and the throttle body air outlet to valve can be the same pipe from the Volvo 940.

These valves work in the following sequence ………… @ 0V the valve is slightly open…..@ low volts the valve is closed……..@ low volts and increasing volts opens the valve. The reason for this is if there is an ECU or wiring fault then the default value is a fast idle.

Most documentation about these valves show @0V slightly open …….@ 25% duty cycle, valve closed ………@ 40% duty cycle, normal operating area….

Bench testing the valve on a variable power supply showed this to be true …….. circa 3.5V and valve was closed and it began to open as the volts were increased to around 4V………….so, as 3.5V is 25% of 14V then the 25% duty cycle rule is correct.

You may think this is a lot of faffing around …………. but its important later.

Here I will detail my errors (that cause a lot of head scratching), because I know that others will encounter the same issues.

With the valve plumbed in and unpowered the idle was about 1800 rpm ……….. I decided that was a bit high and reduced that the 1200 rpm by closing the throttle stop a little ………. WRONG ……… but more about this later………

With the valve connected and following the MS (idle valve) tuning info I got a really good and stable idle using the following settings………

One of the reasons for using 100 (arbitrary number to set the frequency) as the PWM frequency is that the duty cycle is only true at 100 and that it gives the valve 1% resolution. At higher or lower frequencies you need to calculate the duty cycle.

DUTY CYCLE% = Lower or Upper dc * 100 / Idle Valve Frequency value

The test of idle stability was to quickly turn on and off the heater and 750Watts of lights…… the idle would take a slight dip from 850 rpm and very, very quickly return to 850rpm ………….

With Meagtune, its best to set up an “idleDC” gauge so that the operation of the valve in terms of % duty cycle can be clearly seen. The operation was very clear……… with no engine load it was running @42% - 44% DC ………. by loading the engine the valve was opening to 58% DC……….. on open throttle it was closing to 25% DC …………..

The only real problem at this stage was the ‘settle’ time from an engine start……. However, the first test drive produced another issue ………. after a decent overrun (say coming up the standing traffic or lights) the idle would dip and an engine stall would occur before the idle control had chance to recover…………..not good…

After a bit of lateral thinking ………… idle control systems must have to rely on a good base idle as the mechanics of the valve would not allow huge quick changes in open/cloe to find the correct idle valve ……….. in this respect a stepper motor would probably perform better and the changes could be more precise, but, without a base idle reference the performance would be far from perfect.

So … to set the base idle I used the following procedure ………… disconnect he valve from the plenum and blank the plenum air inlet. Then set the base idle (using the throttle body butterfly stop) to a value that is just below the required controlled idle ……… I set mine to 800 rpm as I wanted a controlled 850rpm……

Reconnecting the valve and test driving, confirmed that the stalling issue was resolved and the idle was perfectly stable @850rpm………….

The next issue was the settle time from an engine start ………

Even on a hot engine the valve was taking too long to settle, thus giving an oscillating idle for maybe 10 or 20 seconds immediate after an engine start…………….once settled the operation was fine.

If the first start sequence is carefully watched ………… the valve opens to the cranking duty cycle, then closes to the ‘closed value’ as the engine fires & runs (provided the throttle is open….which it will be) and then as the throttle is released, it goes back to the cranking duty cycle value and steps down from that to try and find the correct idle………

Where as …………. Once the engine has been started and idle has been found, then following that point the software uses the minimum duty cycle setting to find the correct idle value …………. big difference

So ………….. to over come the start issue I tried setting the cranking value to be much closer to the minimum value ……….. in that way the valve has a much smaller operating range in which to find the correct value ……… as the operating value is 42% - 44% (@ normal operating temperature) and the minimum is set at 40% …………… setting the cranking value to 45% means the valve only has a small window in which to ‘find’ the correct idle. On a cold start the value opens up to 52% (dependant upon IAT).

This setting has now completely cured the start up issues on both warm and cold starts………….

megatune shots..................Warm engine

Cold Engine................

It seemed to me that the engine / software responds better to the valve opening, rather than closing from a high open value …………. I guess that makes good sense if you think about.

Its not absolutely 100% perfect to my liking (probably about 98% perfect) as there is a very slight overshoot on load variation ………… I can see it because I am looking for it, but I guess it wouldn’t be noticeable to anybody else driving the truck. However, I am reasonably sure that this can be resolved with a little bit of fine tuning of the settings.

The final test was to go up the farm and see how it performed in low range 3rd without any throttle input ………….. it behaves just like a diesel driven in the same manner, only maybe a little more controlled ………..it took a very steep slope to stall the engine and literally walks over obstacles that would have need to have been ’driven’ previously.

Have fun !

Ian

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Well ta Ian - that saves me a raft of Homework

As discussed I thougfht I was going to have to do this to mine...... to get it to start and warm up......... without me having to mind the throttle pedal

What was the mod to the MS ECU ?

Anyway, for those interested , this item is available on a raft of cars :

Intermotor Part Number is : 14773

Bosch Part Number is : 1389618 supwerceeded from 0280140516

Or from a scrappy (Most likley as around £150 squid new )... any of these :

ALFA ROMEO 164 2.0

ALFA ROMEO 164 3.0

ALFA ROMEO 164 Super 2.0

ALFA ROMEO 75 1.6

ALFA ROMEO 75 1.8

ALFA ROMEO 75 2.0

ALFA ROMEO GTV 2.0

ALFA ROMEO Spider (USA/Nato) 2.0

ALFA ROMEO Spider 2.0

CITROEN BX 1.9

OPEL Ascona 2.0

OPEL Astra 2.0

OPEL Calibra 2.0

OPEL Calibra 2.5

OPEL Corsa 1.6

OPEL Frontera 2.0

OPEL Frontera 2.4

OPEL Kadett 2.0

OPEL Omega 2.0

OPEL Omega 2.4

OPEL Omega 2.5

OPEL Omega 2.6

OPEL Omega 3.0

OPEL Senator 2.6

OPEL Senator 3.0

OPEL Sintra 3.0

OPEL Vectra 2.0

PEUGEOT 309 1.9

PEUGEOT 405 1.9

SAAB 900 2.0

SAAB 900 2.5

SAAB 9000 2.0

SAAB 9000 2.3

VAUXHALL Astra 2.0

VAUXHALL Calibra 2.0

VAUXHALL Carlton 2.0

VAUXHALL Cavalier 2.0

VAUXHALL Frontera 2.0

VAUXHALL Frontera 2.4

VAUXHALL Omega 2.5

VAUXHALL Omega 3.0

VAUXHALL Senator 2.6

VAUXHALL Senator 3.0

VAUXHALL Sintra 3.0

VOLVO 240 2.3

VOLVO 440 1.6

VOLVO 440 1.7

VOLVO 440 1.8

VOLVO 440 2.0

VOLVO 460 1.6

VOLVO 460 1.7

VOLVO 460 1.8

VOLVO 480 2.0

VOLVO 740 2.3

VOLVO 740 Estate/Combi 2.0

VOLVO 740 Estate/Combi 2.3

VOLVO 940 2.0

VOLVO 940 2.3

VOLVO 940 Estate/Combi 2.0

VOLVO 940 Estate/Combi 2.3

VOLVO S70 2.0

VOLVO S70 2.4

VOLVO V70 2.4

Nige

[LandyManLuke]

Great write up Ian, I guess what needs looking at is something like the parameters of a PID controller, this would cure the overshoot, though i'm guessing from the screen shots there's no option to tune the controller parameters megasquirt uses.

any pictures of the idle valve?

definitely one for the to-do list!

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Luke,

I think just trimming the variables within megatune will work really well......................

Most commercial ECU's use a coolant temperature table linked to specific valve settings (about 10 table entries)....... from this the actual trimming of the valve is a very controlled algorithm over a tiny bandwidth.............I believe MSII uses a similar idea. This makes sense as MSII has more memory .......... in MS1 the software developers were stuck with the limited memory of the stock processor

I read an article not so long ago where it was claimed that almost 50% of the software with an ECU program is for controlling the engine parameters during warm up and idle stability...............

However, I can live with it as it is right now (its perfectly usable)..................taking it further is just aiming for perfection, I guess the last 1% is always the most difficult to achieve.

Ian

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

What was the mod to the MS ECU ?

Remove Q20, Q4 & R39 ..................... replace with a TIP122 wired into the Q20 position ................ also remove D8 and fit a 1N4001 diode across the valve to stop the coil back emf (the solenoid is a large inductor) from causing the TIP122 to self conduct with possible destruction. Also protecting against back emf in this manner also will prevent the valve from a sluggish action ...............

http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Ha...anual.htm#Fidle

Ian

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

any pictures of the idle valve?

This is the VDO engine management Catalogue for idle valves ..........look at pages 31 to 34 .... the Bosch valves are indentical................ any of these from E30's and Vdubs will do the job.......

svcatalogueengineactuators2en.pdf

Ian

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

A small trimming of the settings has cured the very slight over shoot...............this mainly revolved around the activation adder which determines at what rpm the valve activation starts to occur..............................and also the 'Hi rpm' setting which determines the fast valve activation curve .............. you need the slow recovery only the maintain a steady idle speed.............I have also closed the gap a little more between the cranking duty cycle and the minimum duty cycle.

To be honest its quite impressive for what appears to be a minimalist piece of code............. B)

Of course, these settings will only really apply to the engine / valve combiation I am using, however, the same valve on a different engine will has very similar settings.

Ian

[landybehr]

Hi,

different matter :>

I really would like to drive the tachometer no longer by the alternator (RR-Classic) but rather by a signal from MS.

If been given a hint to try and connect the EDIS-SAW signal with the tach.

Would that gain anything ? Given that the voltage-DB37-pin-measurements from FridgeFreezer earlier on in this thread reads +5Volt for SAW. In this case I could probably use the pin-30 (tach-out on my MS-2) signal just as well ?

Could I do any harm in trying ?

Could I expect to succeed ?

Would there be any (=other) way to do what I want ? (I would so much prefer the correct rpm-reading and my alternator´s tach signal output is broken anyway).

Many thanks and happy pre-X-mas-days !

[FridgeFreezer]

You could pick a new tach signal off one of the alternator windings, you could us the TACH OUT of the MS, I wouldn't use the EDIS signals as it may affect the signal. I'm not 100% sure if alternator-type tachos work from things like coil signals.

[TomG]

Ian,

I gave your latest closed loop idle settings a quick shot, and... wahoo! Much more responsive!

Previously i had the valve running at 50hz.. which gave too many DC steps and was too sluggish to respond, 100hz is a big improvement! The only thing I thought was that when warmed up at 850rpm, will fast recovery not kick in until 450rpm or below which is maybe a bit too close to stall point? or is it a interpolated thing from the slow response value?

I had to bump up the cranking, min and closed DCs about +10, I'm running a 2-wire audi valve but have the throttle plate at it's default adjustment (fully shut?)

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Tom,

Once the engine is warm, the valve starts to activate at 1350rpm (idle activation adder) and then goes into fast recovery at 1250 rpm (Upper limit - hi rpm)…………add 150rpm to these number when the engine is cold………….

The idea is that the fast activation tries to catch the revs on the way down (throttle open then closed) and then track it to the required idle , thus stopping the overshoot..

Put up an ‘idle dc’ gauge on megatune and you can see the action………....to be fair, my valve seems to work really well.

Ian

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

I had previoulsy fitted the LCDash - nice and does exactly what it says on the tin....

but..................

I also wanted :

• To be able to 'Datalog' the Megasquirt / MegalogViewer
  
• To have the ability to Diagnose probs there and then with Megatune
  
• To have GPS for Greenlanning ie Memory Map
  
• and for Off Road Eventing
  
• To have a 'Road Stylee' GPS Sat Nav
  

So, before during and after Christams the 'Mk2 Display' took shape

With Thanks (in no particular order ) to Tonk, Moglite, Ian G, and Jon White............. I now have this :

Compaq Tablet TC1000 with Homemade Version 1 Multifunction display

Memory Map with 50 and 25000: 1 Mapping

Navigator 7 Road GPS

Megatune for MS

MegalogViewer (with XLS) for Datalogging (Also has Excel and Java Loaded for MLV to work and datalog)

All now working after some messing about with the GPS and COMM Porting and PC Software

Boot Up screen

Road Stylee GPS Navigator 7

Memory Map

Megatune For MS

1st Test out tommorrow at Broxhead - mount is 3mm Ali care of a £300,000 NC Folder ....Oh if only I had the room (and the money ). easily removeable just leaving a back mount plate, later this will get painted etc, but runs 2x USBs - 1 to GPS 1 to Megasquirt, and has a Maplin Car Adapter hard wired into the fuse box, through the ignition, so powered from battery if Ignition off (saves whatever on screen) car charger takes over when engine running etc

Thanks to all on the forum for the help and advice to get me this system up and running - and for not much £s either

Nige

[markwindsurf]

Nige,

I tried to do exactly that with the GPS software and could not get the USB GPS receiver to work on the compaq, what comm port etc did you use or is it particular to the GPS receiver?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

There are 2x USB ports on the Compaq.

Megatune on one, GPS for both Memory map and Navigator on the other.

Megatune was a Pain as I has the serial to USB converter being stupid ,

on the other (GPS) USB Ended up with COMM 4 and messed around with both the software settings and the Hardware settings before it worked properly

Can now even run Megatune and have the Navigator Sat Nav talking turn by turn instructions

(which it needs to as I have no sense of direction )

Nige

[jsstevo]

Hi Nige,

We're looking at buying some sort of laptop to help set our MS unit up as didn't want to use the Works laptop!

I liked the idea of the tablet you setup. How easy would it be to recreate your setup on a similar machine? This would be for the MS side only, not GPS.

Cheers!

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Hi Nige,

We're looking at buying some sort of laptop to help set our MS unit up as didn't want to use the Works laptop!

I liked the idea of the tablet you setup. How easy would it be to recreate your setup on a similar machine? This would be for the MS side only, not GPS.

Cheers!

If I read what your asking correctly - DEAD EASY - even I can do it

MegaTune is VERY forgiving software, it will run on a PC with windows 95 !

So, unlikley you can buy a PC / Laptop / Tablet that won't be able to run Megatune.

The MS ECU has a serial port, many PCs nowdays (inc my Tablet but NOT the Laptop I have used previously) have USB, to get serail to link to USB you need a serial to USB adapter - not expensive but they can be damned awkward in getting them to work - once you have tweaked them to do so then you can use a USB to serial lead and bobs yer fathers uncles brother cousin dog and all that. The Serial Adapter I had just didn't like working, 3x loading the software and some shouting and a teddy airbourne it suddenly behaved, and has done since, apparently I have found serial to USB adapter can be finicky....

To aviod this you could look at buying a Laptop / PC / Tablet with a serial port - but that will age it , most newer ones just do not have them...hey ho

To Data Log from the same PC then you will need a working copy (not a "Viewer" ) of Microsoft Excel.

To then analyise the logs produced, you can either do it (as I can now) on the tablet, or remove the log via a Pendrive if the Tablet / Pc / Laptop has them, and then do on a home PC.

Either way you would need MegalogViewer AND the Java Software Platform to allow it to run and work, Java is the tricky bit (ask me how I know wibble )

HTH

PM me if you wnat to discuss further ?

Nige

[istruggle2gate11]

Ive just bought this usb to serial adaptor from DIY autotune, as they promise it will work (to date the laptop I have used has a serial connector, but my older one doesnt).

All good stuff, ordered Friday, Delivered from USA Tuesday morning 8am!

Im sure you can get the same make here, but the main order was for this wiring loom, for once I might be able to do the job properly

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Rog,

The Maplin USB to Serial convertor works OK....................it a Prolific, but non badged for Maplin ............£9.99

The USB to Serial issue is not just peculiar to megaquirt ..................a lot of out comms programming is done via RS232 and many of the modern laptops only have a serial port connect when docked ..............

Our people invested in PCMCIA serial cards (not cheap), but they can also be a nightmare (avoid the 'Brainbox' 2 port like the plague)..................... so 'engineering' spent a while working out what would work and what would not work................they came to the conclusion that a good many of the cheap USB to Serial convertors are fine ................I have a list somewhere................ many are quite respectable makes that are not badged, or even re-badged....

The issue with the ones that don't work is the buffer control and how the PC is allowed to interface with the buffer ...........this normally results in the last bit not being sent................

Ian

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Ive just bought this usb to serial adaptor from DIY autotune, as they promise it will work

Dats the one I have and it's fine

Nige

[V8 Freak]

The alternative is to use a PCMCIA to RS232 converter

Something like this;

Clicky Link Thingy

Should have no issues that some USB converters may have. These units are designed for the input/output industries like distribution facilities etc.

(Got myself one coming to try with my Tablet PC.. Will let you know if I have any issues..)

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Oh Gawd what a F Day

1st a HUGE thankyou to the MS Forums, and especially to 'DIY Autotune' for the eventual fix,

and without the MegaSquirt Forums I would still be stuck and would not have fixed it.

What was the "it" ??

My Megatune just throwing a hissing fit and giving me a error message about how it was 'expecting' one thing and 'getting' another.....

then the display gauges jumping about and then the software locking up.

With my old laptop (with serial port) all was well, my newer USB to serial nightmare said it was not the ECU....

In fact what it told me was that it was either the Serial to USB adapter and or Laptop etc was the issue,

the MS engine ran fine, and the Megatune was fine - if I used the scabby old laptop, but try to use the nice modern (No serial port ) Tablet and it just wasn't having it.

This is also due to me running 2x GPS software and the Ports being USB having a field day in being F difficult...well knopwn danger area !!

The 'problem' Laptop is (Was )

Compaq TC1000 Tablet 10.4 screen active pen input

Windows XP Tablet Edition OS

I have a DIY Autotune Serial to USB unit

and (read below) a Maplins Serial to USB Adapter Model ZP43W

DC 18v Power supply in car

I have 2x USB Ports, no Serial port

I also have GPS Software for road use, AND GPS software for off road use,

when I first ran all the software all was well, .......

then for no reason one day......and that was that ...........I fought to get the GPSs working.......... the MT was having none of it

I have :

Played with the ports, reloaded the Drivers for the USB,

reloaded Megatune, played with the buffering and baud rates

removed MLV MT and everthing else, reloaded, ...sweet sod all

In desperation bought a new Serial to USB unit - and loaded than and then the software etc

and EXACTLY the same.

oh and followed loads of Serial to USB issues suggestions on the MS Forums - Nothing !

In absolute desperation I decided as a last ditch attempt to use 'DIY Autotunes' "Free Packed software system" this gives MT MLV etc

and it's configured for the various types of configurations (inc mine 029v) ....and so I went and downloaded it..

Its 23MB, but ...Loaded and worked 1st time

Now my GPS works (Comm 8) and MT Comm 4

Here is a linky to DIY Autotunes FREE Bundled Package - Bl**dy Fantastic !

http://www.diyautotune.com/softwarelinks.htm

And I hope this helps others such as me if you have this issue with a USB Ported "Modern" laptop

Nige

Oh...PS

For sale

1 DIY Autotune Serial to USB adapter

With the Software Drivers, and I'll burn a copy of the Autotune Software for you if you wnat

£20 Inc P&P, shortly to be on LR4x4 Classifields, Oh if only I had known, and no I am not swapping them around and risking another day of "Swear at a Laptop"