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** MegaSquirting a V8 - "Basics of How to" ... The A-Z Saga


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I think you're just expecting more accuracy than you need. Stop worrying about it.

oki doki :D

I just came back from a ride with original hotwire ECU and dizzy - logging WB in logworks - although no other variables are logged - I was surprised seeing that almost all the time the car was around stochio. Only for small moment during accel - it went richer but returned back very quickly. This means I still have to go leaner with my VE at least to get close to the stock setup :)

drive-hotwiredizzy-o2.png

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Doing the MS install for the 3.9 in my Dakar.

I'm going to use wideband and assume I will need to buy an LC-1 unless told otherwise.

Where is the best source? Again I'm assuming Bill Shurvinton.

Thanks

Steve

No you do not need one :)

and, lookie at where I live :P:rolleyes:

Ian G (bull Bar Cowboy) and I have burnt much time sqeaking to each other on tunning our V8s, he did a Narrow Band tunning, then switched to Wideband, frankly he was disappointed as the changes where minimal at best and I am not even sure if he hasn't now retunned further with NB and left WB out completely such is the result you can get with NB and some time

Mr Beagley for example spent a day with me, ...............

he was just saying how fast his 4.6 was,

how it had never gone as well as it was at high RPM and bottom clenching speeds near me with me gripping lappy

......when the extra BHP released blew his autobox apart, new autobox later he stills says it :)

Nige

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Last I heard Bill is the guy for Innovate in the UK, although you don't strictly need one to get a good tune.

have dealt with GGR (graham goode racing) through work for the inovate stuff (LC1's TC4's etc) & couldnt fault there prices if anyone is looking for innovate stuff, found Glenn is the man to speak to ;)

Fridge: when you build the MS kits do you include anysort of AFR display? Have some DIY AFR display kits i found in our stock at work that may be of interest to you?

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Fridge: when you build the MS kits do you include anysort of AFR display? Have some DIY AFR display kits i found in our stock at work that may be of interest to you?

You mean like the AFR gauges you can get from Halfrauds? No because if you need to know the lambda sensor output you just plug the laptop in :huh: that said, what have you got at work? Could be of interest to some.

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I'm not sure I'm fully understanding this so bare with me.

Narrow is going to try and make everything 14.7 unless MS detects large or sudden throttle position and turns off EGO.

This will give me a good tune in most conditions and power when I want it but it does not allow me tune tune out to 17ish on light throttle cruise or over-run. One of the engines I am going to MS is 6.7litre, 508hp in a 1 tonne car so I'm looking to make it as economical as possible (when I want it to be).

If I do use a narrow band is there a particular make, part number or source I need to look for or do I just buy something in Halfords or Kwikfit?

Cheers

Steve

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Steve,

That used to be the case but MegaLogViewer now does the maths for you so you can get it to tune to any AFR you want. The WB is useful to see in real-time what the AFR is, and on turbo motors they're still considered important to prevent running lean and melting something.

Any 4-wire lambda sensor will do, most motor factors sell "universal" ones for £25 ish, or I have used ones kicking about.

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Thanks FF

Have PM'd Bill for a price.

Will then have to decide which way to go....high spec or cheapo.

Do like the idea of a gauge on the dash even though it does not mean a lot.

I'm with you on wanting to know about the gauge kits SootySport has in stock.

Steve

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm going to run my cooling fans from the MS and I was wondering what temp people are running. IE when the fans cut in and what temp when they stop. I have 1 of simonr's X-temp doofas which is very good but I have some problems when the senders get dunked a lot. Its a 3.9. and I'm just wondering what's the best all round.

Jeff

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Early V8 - ran around 80 degrees, and a good target tem, whereas the P38s run at around 96 degrees for emission purposes, and one of the reasons they have cooling issues they do, 96 is too hot as a base temp, ....and you also lose BHP !

Fit a thermostat to the engine from an early carbed V8,

can't rememebr the part number but the range is 72-74 degrees thermostat,

this will significantly lower the operating temps of the engine :)

(oh, Make sure you fit it with the 'toggle' in it at the top :) )

Rad / fan switches have 2 ranges,

they come on when topo high a temp has be reached say at 'X temp',

and then go off when you you've lowered the heat and reached 'Y temp',

So, if your target temp is 80 degrees, then you looking for a switch say 88 - come on, and then off at say 80 or maybe 81

Hope this helps

Nige

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Isn't the ideal temp for the 3.9 88deg or will it benefit running at say 80deg? What I was getting at is the MS is reading the temp sensor as the coolant is leaving the engine after the stat so if I put the lower temp sensor from a carb V8 do I have the fans come in at 92 and out at 88 or is 92 to hot..? If try and run the fans any lower than 88 they will be on all the time as my engine like's 88deg most off the time.

Jeff.

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Cooling on a V8 is everything, 92 is bordering on too hot if run for long. 80 is good,

88 is hot but OK, race V8 try to keep between 70-80 as thats where the max BHP is,

BHP drops with too much heat.

Try to have a target of say 82-84 for normal running, to get this to be the case the

fans HAVE to come on BEFORE it reacheas the 84 setting, as then the fans are coming

on too late and have to chase the heat down again, better to have the fans kick in

BEFORE it gets to 84/85 to either maintain or then drop the heat down again and then fans off.

DON't cool to low or the Extra enrichment can kick back in esp on non MS units :)

The older V8 carn thermostat will help hugely dropping the heat and running temps, if too much

then there are others that you can play with, but do the thermostat change 1st and see what that does for running temps

HTH

Nige

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Cooling on a V8 is everything, 92 is bordering on too hot if run for long. 80 is good,

88 is hot but OK, race V8 try to keep between 70-80 as thats where the max BHP is,

BHP drops with too much heat.

Try to have a target of say 82-84 for normal running, to get this to be the case the

fans HAVE to come on BEFORE it reacheas the 84 setting, as then the fans are coming

on too late and have to chase the heat down again, better to have the fans kick in

BEFORE it gets to 84/85 to either maintain or then drop the heat down again and then fans off.

DON't cool to low or the Extra enrichment can kick back in esp on non MS units :)

The older V8 carn thermostat will help hugely dropping the heat and running temps, if too much

then there are others that you can play with, but do the thermostat change 1st and see what that does for running temps

HTH

Nige

Cheers Nige I will

give that a go and report back.

Jeff

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have now acquired 8 electronic LPG injectors which I'm going to run with Mega Squirt, or at least try... Has anyone tried this yet or has any tips? I have duel tables which I run LPG with a modified spark map and "0" in the fuel map. I was thinking that if I use the 2nd fuel map to run the LPG injectors with the LPG modified spark map it should all work OK, with tuning. When I switch from petrol to LPG I was going to turn the petrol system off completely and at the same time turn the LPG system on. At the moment the petrol injectors are still live but idle and the rest of the petrol system is switched off. To run the LPG injectors I thought it would be best to split the signal from Mega Squirt by a relay or something similar, so when I'm running petrol it runs 1 side of the relay and LPG the other. My friendly LPG fitter said he has some boxes that he uses to split the injector signal so I will have a look at them. This is all trial and error at the moment but I think it will be a good idea in the long run. I don't know if you can get the same performance from LPG as from petrol but at 50% less cost its worth a go.

Any thoughts or criticisms are welcome.

Jeff

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Your LPG installer's magic switch box sounds an awful lot like a relay to me :rolleyes:

If you connect the table switching input to the MS and also to a relay (or magic switching box) such that when you flick the switch the relay switches the MS injector drive (ground side of the injectors) from the petrol to the LPG injectors, that should do it. You could add an extra wire or two to kill the EFI fuel pump and injector +12v feed if you wanted.

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Your LPG installer's magic switch box sounds an awful lot like a relay to me :rolleyes:

FF thanks for that.. :rolleyes:

If you connect the table switching input to the MS and also to a relay (or magic switching box) such that when you flick the switch the relay switches the MS injector drive (ground side of the injectors) from the petrol to the LPG injectors, that should do it. You could add an extra wire or two to kill the EFI fuel pump and injector +12v feed if you wanted.

When I switch from petrol to LPG the live from the fuel pump relay is diverted to the gas vaporiser from the fuel pump so the whole petrol side is dead so it shouldn't be too great a problem to wire in a magic switching box as you say... :P

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Cooling on a V8 is everything, 92 is bordering on too hot if run for long. 80 is good,

88 is hot but OK, race V8 try to keep between 70-80 as thats where the max BHP is,

BHP drops with too much heat.

Try to have a target of say 82-84 for normal running, to get this to be the case the

fans HAVE to come on BEFORE it reacheas the 84 setting, as then the fans are coming

on too late and have to chase the heat down again, better to have the fans kick in

BEFORE it gets to 84/85 to either maintain or then drop the heat down again and then fans off.

DON't cool to low or the Extra enrichment can kick back in esp on non MS units :)

The older V8 carn thermostat will help hugely dropping the heat and running temps, if too much

then there are others that you can play with, but do the thermostat change 1st and see what that does for running temps

HTH

Nige

Nige, just an update......

Iv'e wired spr3 which is fans out to the 86 on the relays that run my fans. 86 was the earth to the chassis. That's 1 relay and fuse per fan. The fans come in at 84deg and out at 81deg. I'm using an 82deg stat as that's what I had under the bench and it's running fine. My local motor factor has ordered an 74deg stat and if the 82deg is too high I will change it. The motor ran lovely on the way home and when in traffic the fans came in more often but the temp went no higher than 84deg, that makes a change from anywhere between 88 & sometimes 92deg with a bottom hose temp sensor. Nearly time for that F-huge log Nige.. :ph34r:

Jeff

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Is there any way to test the timing without running the engine?

Assuming your trigger wheel is somewhere in the ballpark, pull the fuse for the fuel pump and use a timing light to see what's going on, you can fix the timing in the spark menu:

spark_settings.png

Once you've persuaded it to run at a fixed angle, adjust the trim angle setting until the number from the timing light is the same thing as the number the MS has set.

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Since this is turning into a bit of an MS-tech thread, here are a couple of maps for people:

First off is a standard (B&G standard code, 8x8 tables, fuel only) settings file from my RR 3.5 V8 after a bit of datalogging & tuning, the idle isn't perfect but the rest of it is close and I have been running these settings (albeit with a less well tuned map) for years now:

JU_RR_35_200709062328a.msq

I would use this as a base settings for any stock RV8, just up the fuelling (REQ_FUEL in constants) by a certain % for larger engines.

Exactly what I was looking for, but "Server not found"!. Anyone got a copy/similar they can post?

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In MegaTune you can right-click on a gauge and choose something else for it to read - you can choose basically anything that the ECU or software "knows" the value of, so it can be anything from a temperature to a single status bit. You can also define basic code to make your own gauges (for example someone made a realtime BHP & torque gauge using wideband O2 readings & some maths) so it should be a relatively easy one to make a gauge that reads something like "advance minus offset".

Now that would be fun :P save on using a rolling road for pub print-outs!

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