WANT ONE...

[nathanmonkey]

Hey all in Land Rover world.

I am looking to get my first off roader, as being a new Daddy my wife doesnt want me on a bike anymore (sob, weep, wail )and I think it really has to be a Landy RR Classic! My uncle had one when I was (much) younger, and I knew I had to have one.

I am currently saving for my truck, so I thought I should use the time to do a little research!

They look the business, I know they can handle the dirty stuff, but I want an honest opinion from those in the know:

Is an RRC a good idea for a 1st truck, are there any bad points I should be aware of? If not an RRC what would you recommend?

I know there are rust issues on the wings and tailgate, but what else should I look for?

Thanks for your help.

Nathan

[Bowie69]

A RRC is a good choice for a 'first' in my opinion because it still has a lot of the luxuries, and quietness of a regular car, just you can do stupid things with them as well

I don't think you'd be disappointed, put it that way

[bernie]

After having series landrovers over the years, i`am now on my second range rover and love the comfort when off roading, where else can you get a lot of comfort and quality for little money, shop around and dont rush in to buying one, the decent rust free classics are out there.

I paid £900 for a 1989 diesel classic with very little rust on it, inner wings faultless, rear floor surface rust, top tail gate okish,

[FridgeFreezer]

Welcome - a RRC is a great choice, they do everything if you post up some more about what you're looking at I'm sure people will be able to offer more detailed advice.

There are a few places they rust, top tailgates are usually carp and cost £££ to replace, apart from that if you get a solid vehicle all the oily bits are cheap enough to fix or replace these days.

[geoffbeaumont]

Welcome - a RRC is a great choice, they do everything if you post up some more about what you're looking at I'm sure people will be able to offer more detailed advice.

There are a few places they rust, top tailgates are usually carp and cost £££ to replace, apart from that if you get a solid vehicle all the oily bits are cheap enough to fix or replace these days.

Even the top tailgate isn't big money these days - there're are so many of them getting broken now you can pick up used alloy ones for sensible prices.

[bishbosh]

Some tips -

Check for RUST, almost EVERYWHERE.

Remember there are LOADS of Range Rover Classics out there so be really choosy.

Make sure you check for RUST.

Make sure you see the engine start from cold - overnight cold not just left for an hour or two - make this clear to the vendor before you go to view the vehicle. It should start quickly and idle smoothly. If it doesn't, walk away - there is a world of pain waiting for you - ask me how I know!!

Have a look underneath for RUST.

Check that all the electrical bits work as they should - seats, all switches, A/C, heater sunroof, cruise control.

Look for evidence of coolant loss - steam in the exhaust? Might be a porous block, a known problem with 3.9's.

If the vehicle has ABS, make sure the system is working properly - the ABS pump should run on startup for about a minute or so and then go off. should cut back in only after a few goes on the brakes. If it runs continuously or repeatedly cuts in without using the brakes walk away.

Is there any RUST on the vehicle?

Make sure the ABS light follows the correct startup sequence - when you start the vehicle the red warning light should illuminate and STAY ON. It should only go out once you have driven over 5 mph. This is not a time dependant system - i.e. it should not come on for 5 secs and then go out of its own accord. (some people have been known to rig the system to hide ABS faults.)

Whilst you're inspecting the vehicle, check for RUST.

Auto box- when driven from cold, again overnight cold, make sure it changes up through the gears smoothly. If it stays in first for too long then it may be on its way out. Whilst stationary, change from Drive to Reverse a couple of times. A clonk is normal but it can be excessive. You really need someone who knows LR transmissions with you to determine if it is too much of a clonk.

Sometimes Range Rovers RUST. It might be worth having a quick looksee...

Pull the gearbox dipstick. The oil should be pink / red. Any "burnt" discolouration then walk away.

Off road damage - You may find evidence whilst you are checking for RUST.

Be wary of aftermarket diesel conversions. some are good some are, erm, not so good!

If it has LPG, ask to see the certification and check it runs well on either fuel.

Good luck! Oh, and fill in your profile so we know where you live and can make unjustifiable assumptions as to your character!!

[Mark]

Since No-one seems to have mentioned it so far.... Make sure you check for the odd bit of rust...

[russ3120]

i have just got a RRC 1990 3.9 v8 oh what joy, got it for a very very good price

the first thing i did was look for RUST

for less than a grand you can get a very good example of RRC

russ

[nathanmonkey]

So does anyone think I should check for rust?

Thanks for all the advice...

Can you tel me what MPG to expect (realistically) from the V8? I dont think I can stretch to the price of a diesel at least not for my first off road car. (Lets face it, it may end up in a right old mess!)

I will drop a bit of info about myself into this thread, to help with random assumptions:

I am from Sutton Coldfield, just outside Birmingham (Yes as a Brumie I do like a Kebab sometimes!). I am a keen biker (motorbikes that is...) but a friends accident meant I took a year selling the bike for a car (BIG mistake). One year is now over 2, and the car was sold and is now a kitchen (sigh!). I was ready to get another bike when we found we were pregnant! I am now a Daddy, my Son is 5 weeks old, and beautiful.

As new parents my wife doesnt want me on a bike, and I agree (for the first couple of years anyway!) so she has agreed to let me spend some cash on a different toy, and I have always wanted a Rangie.

If I have a capable 4x4 I will have to off road it.... it would be rude not to!

So thats me...

[russ3120]

mpg well there is a joke, my RRC 3.9 v8 does about 6 miles to the pound, i use about 3/4 of a tank getting upto Brum (i to am a brummie) from Brecon, Wales.

don`t look at the fuel guage in litres or gallons, just pound signs lol

Russ

[Roverdrive]

A few places to check FOR RUST, but not an exhaustive list by any means!

Inner wings from bulkhead to lights

A pillar for rust

Sills below seats

Footwells

Rear wheel arch, both where the seat belt bolts through, and the inner seam where it meets the floor.

Rear body cross member.

All chassis, especially round the fuel tank

Oil leaks - if it isn't dripping it is probably empty!

Check all electrics work, they are created in a dark hell called Lucas.

Dual fuel has been covered. Make sure there is an LPGA cert with any gas installation. Doesn't mean the installation is perfect, but most insurance companies wont consider the vehicle without one.

Top and bottom tail gates rust like f@#+

I get about 12 mpg with aggressive mud tyres on mine, up to 14 mpg on 205 road tyres if "driving miss daisy"

I think the Borg warner transfer box is partly responsive for this - not just a heavy right foot! might get more out of one with a standard transfer box with locking diff. I am sure someone will be along in a mo to say I am talking c**p!

Remember: It is a big Mecanno set, so nothing is impossible to fix.

BTW what bike are you selling?

[FridgeFreezer]

My 3.5 RRC gets between 15 and 18mpg but then it's MegaSquirted so it actually runs right

The 109 with it's 4.6 gets about 20 - that's MegaSquirted too

You may notice a pattern

[nathanmonkey]

A few places to check FOR RUST, but not an exhaustive list by any means!

Inner wings from bulkhead to lights

A pillar for rust

Sills below seats

Footwells

Rear wheel arch, both where the seat belt bolts through, and the inner seam where it meets the floor.

Rear body cross member.

All chassis, especially round the fuel tank

Oil leaks - if it isn't dripping it is probably empty!

Check all electrics work, they are created in a dark hell called Lucas.

Dual fuel has been covered. Make sure there is an LPGA cert with any gas installation. Doesn't mean the installation is perfect, but most insurance companies wont consider the vehicle without one.

Top and bottom tail gates rust like f@#+

I get about 12 mpg with aggressive mud tyres on mine, up to 14 mpg on 205 road tyres if "driving miss daisy"

I think the Borg warner transfer box is partly responsive for this - not just a heavy right foot! might get more out of one with a standard transfer box with locking diff. I am sure someone will be along in a mo to say I am talking c**p!

Remember: It is a big Mecanno set, so nothing is impossible to fix.

BTW what bike are you selling?

Bike was sold ages ago... itching for a toy now!

[bishbosh]

MPG?

About 14 combined, 17 on a steady motorway run at a legal speed.

Off road? Single figures

[NickSuzy]

Congratulations on the baby boy.

I have a boy but he is now 18 months and he is a cool dude, he makes me smile everytime i look at him.

But i did the same as you, found out my wife was pregnant and sold the bike straight away. It is too risky and have now given up on bikes completely.

I still stop at all the bike shops that i pass and have a look but i will not buy one again.

It is cars and the RRC that i will be picking up next weekend for me from now on.

Cheers Nick

[Corrode Finger]

If you are scared off by the MPG, look at a Disco Tdi, they are the 'new' rangey when it comes to cheap entry level landies? However, they also have the same RUST affliction!! You might notice a pattern here!

I speak from experience on the RUST, hence the user name . I bought a cheap 70's RRC, that seriously should not have had an MOT, so then got a RRC 3.9 to be a cheap toy, within 4 months it was in bits, and a year later it was a hybrid.... but thats a whole other scenario!

I just seem to attract Rusty Rangies as everybody else appears to get lucky!

[bishbosh]

Disco's have no character though, especially when compared to RR's!

Lights blue touch paper and retires a safe distance.....

[nathanmonkey]

I am going to look at a 1992 J Vouge (hopefully) next week.

I admit I know very little about the RR's so what features should it have i.e. Air suspension, air con, cruise control, elec seats etc

I know it has elec windows and sunroof and I think mirrors...

Thanks

[geoffbeaumont]

I am going to look at a 1992 J Vouge (hopefully) next week.

I admit I know very little about the RR's so what features should it have i.e. Air suspension, air con, cruise control, elec seats etc

I know it has elec windows and sunroof and I think mirrors...

Thanks

A J plate will be on coil springs, I think - air suspension was only available from K onwards. Whether it's desirable or not is highly debatable - it's great when it's working, but it can be temperamental and unlike most things on old land rovers has to be plugged into a diagnostic computer if it decides to sulk. Not hard or particularly expensive to work on though, despite the hearsay.

I'm not sure if a J will have the later solid roof lining - if it does this is desirable as it isn't prone to sagging with age like the cloth ones.

Even the vogue badge doesn't mean a right lot in terms of spec - not sure exactly what you got, but by todays standards they were still pretty basic unless the spec list was plundered.

I think all RR's of that era had electric mirrors - not sure if the option of memory seats/mirrors had been introduced by then? If so it's handy if more than one person drives the truck, but not really a big selling point. Could have either velour or leather seats - that's more down to taste than anything (memory was only available with leather).

Cruise control is very nice to have if it works - which it usually doesn't. Causes vary from perished pipes to knackered ECUs. None of the bits are hard to come by so you could even fit it from scratch if you wanted. Don't assume it'll be easy to fix though - I think more of us have given up on the cruise control than any other single thing on our trucks!

I think ABS was standard by then, but I'm not certain - if it's got it make sure it works properly. Some dislike ABS off road - personally I like it, and on road it's far, far better than the non-ABS braking system. The traction control option may have been available by then (my K-plater had it). Only operates on the back axle, but surprisingly effective off-road.

If it has air con make sure it works. If it needs regassing then you have to get it done with modern CFC-free coolant - as this attacks the original seals, they all have to be replaced at a cost of (I think) around £100.

It will have a Borg-Warner tranfer box. This means no manual diff lock, just a hi-low range selector. Check that the viscous coupling in the transfer box hasn't seized. There are two ways to do this:

1. jack one front wheel off the ground and try to turn it by hand. It should be hard to turn, but not impossible.
   
2. find a patch of gravel and drive on it fairly slowly at full lock. If the tyres are scuffing noticeably the VC is seized.
   

If the VC is seized walk away - it's perfectly repairable, either by replacing the VC or whole TB with a recon one (spendy) or fitting a working second hand TB (relatively cheap, but you don't know how long it'll last), but there are lots of RRC's out there so don't be tempted to buy one that needs significant work unless it really is at a give-away price.

After that you're into nice-to-haves, because they're easy enough to fit yourself if you want them. Remember that RRC parts are generally pretty cheap now!

Wood trim on the dash helps make it look a bit less ugly (visually, it's the only thing that lets the truck down), nice if it's round the gear selector and window switches too. The proper stuff is veneered plywood - if it's stick on plastic it's nasty aftermarket bodgery. Doors had fake wood trim as standard. If you're really lucky it might have real wood veneer on the doors and gear selector too

The top of the range stereo option is quite nice - RC head unit, twin speakers in front doors, speakers in roof at back and sub and CD changer on right in boot. You'd still have to spend a fair wedge of money to get a better new system, and it'd be pointless anyway in such a noisy truck. Many RR's have aftermarket systems, usually just a replacement head unit.

If you're planning on using it a lot off-road consider buying a vehicle which has already been prepped for off-roading. A fully tricked out truck can cost quite a bit to achieve, but the vehicle will be worth a lot less than the sum of its parts - if you're going to do this take a responsible adult with you, though. Someone who can tell the difference between a well prepped truck and a dangerous shed with badly bolted on bling, and between fair wear and tear (in off-road terms) and abuse. Off course, it's more fun building your own truck from scratch

[I love my truck]

Hey Nathan.

I reckon the RRC is a great choice for you. I've had a variety of landrovers over the years and were all fine but when you feel the need to start including the family in off roading nothing beats the rangey. I went for one because I'm a big lad anyway and fed up of getting landrover elbow being cramped in my old age I wanted something more compfy. It also fits the mrs and our 2 lads in in total comfort. There cheap to pick up if your patient. Now personally I have a 200 tdi in mine which in the long run I felt was worth the slightly extra cash for better fuel consumption and occasional dunkings in the water. Its really competant in basic format so once you decided how aggresive you want to go on the tyres you can add as you get the cash and go along. The last truck I had was a 100" hybrid I made from a 110 because i love the wheelbase but my rangey's as good as that and 10 times more compfy. Besides if its good enough for the Queen its good enough for my kids!

Hope you find something suitable. My advice would be go normal non air suspension and if your budget will stretch go diesel.

Rich

[I love my truck]

Hey Nathan.

I reckon the RRC is a great choice for you. I've had a variety of landrovers over the years and were all fine but when you feel the need to start including the family in off roading nothing beats the rangey. I went for one because I'm a big lad anyway and fed up of getting landrover elbow being cramped in my old age I wanted something more compfy. It also fits the mrs and our 2 lads in in total comfort. There cheap to pick up if your patient. Now personally I have a 200 tdi in mine which in the long run I felt was worth the slightly extra cash for better fuel consumption and occasional dunkings in the water. Its really competant in basic format so once you decided how aggresive you want to go on the tyres you can add as you get the cash and go along. The last truck I had was a 100" hybrid I made from a 110 because i love the wheelbase but my rangey's as good as that and 10 times more compfy. Besides if its good enough for the Queen its good enough for my kids!

Hope you find something suitable. My advice would be go normal non air suspension and if your budget will stretch go diesel.

Rich

[nathanmonkey]

Thanks for the info guys.

I would like the air suspension (working ideally!) as it would be easier to get the missus in the truck as she is disabled. But then later I may want to lift the truck so air suspension would be ripped off anyway... Oh decisions decisions. But I suppose the fewer problems the better so maybe coils it should be.

I cant stretch to a diesel at the mo, so i might wait a few months more and save some more pennies, as I dont see that I can afford to run a V8, but on the other hand I really want a V8! I love the noise... so an LPG converted car would be great. Or buy the bits from FleaBay and fit one myself. I assume you can pay to get a DIY fit certified for your insurers.

So how hard is it to fit an LPG kit? I dont mind having a go...

Insurers = leads to my next question - Who do you recommend for insurance? Adrian Flux quoted me TPFT, no alarm, garaged with 6 years NCB on a V8 (Grr), for an estimated 130 quid (you have to call and specify some items so the price would change! what a surprise) but is that reasonable? I havent owned a car in a while but that sounds a good price to me!

It would be good to get a truck that has already been readied for offroad, but where do you find them?

Sorry for all the Q's but I know very little about RR's apart from I like the look, the feel and the noise!

Thanks everyone!

[bernie]

£185 sounds good from Adrian Flux, iam paying £285 for TPFT on a 1989 Range rover fitted with a 3.3 Nissan Diesel, and thats with Adrian Flux as well, Having the Nissan engine in it bumped the price up, the original estimate with standard engine (2.5D)was around £200.

[I love my truck]

It would be good to get a truck that has already been readied for offroad, but where do you find them?

Sorry for all the Q's but I know very little about RR's apart from I like the look, the feel and the noise!

Thanks everyone!

Good places to look are the classified sections on the forum website here, www.awdc.co.uk, www.difflock.com, www.4x4web.co.uk and of course ebay

I find that you can get a better looked after vehicle on the specific websites rather than ebay cos they're often looked after by enthusiasts.

Just have a really good look around, take all the advice from here on what to look for, like for example RUST and don't buy the first one that you see that moves. If you take your time there's always bargins to be had

Good luck with your hunt!

Rich

[geoffbeaumont]

I would like the air suspension (working ideally!) as it would be easier to get the missus in the truck as she is disabled. But then later I may want to lift the truck so air suspension would be ripped off anyway... Oh decisions decisions. But I suppose the fewer problems the better so maybe coils it should be.

Air suspension would certainly make it much easier for your wife to get in and out. Bear in mind that in high profile (off road) you've got the equivalent of, IIRC, a 1.5" lift over standard coils anyway. You can also have the air suspension recalibrated to give a bit more lift if your air bladders are in good nick. Whether it's worth it I'm not sure - I tried running mine manually inflated to various heights, and I'm not convinced it significantly improved the trucks off road ability. Given it also raises the centre of gravity (more risk of a roll) there's probably little or no overall gain.

Air suspension equipped vehicles are very capable, providing everything is in good nick. If they just had a reset button I'd have no hesistation recommending one.

I cant stretch to a diesel at the mo, so i might wait a few months more and save some more pennies, as I dont see that I can afford to run a V8, but on the other hand I really want a V8! I love the noise... so an LPG converted car would be great. Or buy the bits from FleaBay and fit one myself. I assume you can pay to get a DIY fit certified for your insurers.

So how hard is it to fit an LPG kit? I dont mind having a go...

I shouldn't think it's particularly difficult (though I haven't done it). However, it's important that you get a copy of the safety regs and follow them carefully, both so that you can get it certified (yes, you can get a DIY installation certified) and so that your vehicle isn't a mobile bomb... Properly installed LPG is very safe - arguably safer than the original petrol system. Do it wrong though, and it's lethal.

I don't think you'll have too much trouble tracking down a suitable ready-converted truck. When looking at them, check the quality of the installation - pipework should be good on a professional installation, but the standard of wiring is often dreadful. Make sure it's got a certificate, even if your insurers don't require it, so you know it's been inspected.

Incidentally, there's nothing 'official' about the LPG certification scheme - it's run by a commercial organisation, not a government agency.

While I think a diseasel in a range rover classic is sacrilege, one thing to consider is the range you need from the vehicle (especially as you've far fewer places to fill up on LPG). The majority of LPG conversions on a V8 will give you at most a range of 200 miles. A deasel manual truck will have a range of more like 500 miles and you can fill up pretty much anywere.

Insurers = leads to my next question - Who do you recommend for insurance? Adrian Flux quoted me TPFT, no alarm, garaged with 6 years NCB on a V8 (Grr), for an estimated 130 quid (you have to call and specify some items so the price would change! what a surprise) but is that reasonable? I havent owned a car in a while but that sounds a good price to me!

Sounds very good to me. Wish I was paying that little