I need a definitive guide to what Axle internals to use.

[Warthog]

I know there has been loads of info on whats what etc. But all im looking for is guide on the best "Toughest" compromise on axle internals for a low budget. I know LR Axles have a rep for being choco, but there must be some light at the end of the tunnel. No Ashcroft, or Axle swaps.

@ Present im running stock Defender 300TDI era axles front and rear, running 33's

I can find lots of info on whats in what, but no easy guide to getting the most out of genuine LR Diffs, Shafts CV's

Cheers

Mark

[landmannnn]

It would be useful to have a simple guide in the tech forum since this question comes up quite a lot. There are some very good threads on this forum but I can never find them.

[Guest diesel_jim]

rear axle

Lowest budget/strongest would be, IMO, V8 24 spline HD shafts from Bearmach, about £19 each. i've got one in the back of my 90 (with ARB's and given a little bit of stick now and again, not broken yet!), and a 24 spline 4 pinion diff. these are about £300 ish.

you'll still have "open" diffs though, so will be no better off road than you were when you were £338 richer.

staying with the 24 spline shafts, you could go ARB air locker (about £500 for the diff and £120 for the compressor), or quaiffe/detriot auto lockers, not sure of the price, about £350 ish (all plus fitting)

or, just roll a 110 salisbury under. i know you said no axle swapping, but it's easy. you'll need to shorten the propshaft by 1 ^3/4" to make it fit, and you'll lose an inch or 2 of ground clearance.

front axle

as you'rs is a 300Tdi, you should already have 24 spline front shafts, which will fit the stronger 24 spline differentials (although these standard shafts are no stronger than the 10 spline, you need some super duper Ashcroft 32/24 spline HD jobbies, not sure of the price, couple of hundred a pair?)

then the differnetial choices are the same as for the rear. if you go for ARB's then you won't need a second compressor, both are run from the one compressor.

[Guest WALFY]

If you PM Dave at Ashcrofts (Ashtrans) and ask realy nice you might get a couple of quid off. This was the route I was going until the long haired general decided she had to have a new 90

[Daan]

dieseljim already came up with the goods for the rear, I would like to add my opinion for the front: fit early 90/ 110 hubs, stubaxles and CV's. these are the strongest cv's landrover made, and drivemember has more engagemant in the splines than the later ones. driveshafts are cheaper 23/24 spline ashcroft ones. that setup, together with a detroit diff has proven very strong, touch wood no breakages yet.

[Warthog]

Pretty sound advice given so far. Now i have a good idea where to start. Im happy to stay at open diffs and hold fire on 4 pin type until i kill a stock diffs on the truck. Guess i drive like a big girl then, if i havnt killed'em yet?

I mentioned no Ashcroft/Axle Swaps purely on the basis. That it opens a rather large can of worms and opinions.

If i had the £££, then Ashcroft Vs Axle Swap would be in play.

Cheers for the response, plain simple options

[Guest diesel_jim]

dieseljim already came up with the goods for the rear, I would like to add my opinion for the front: fit early 90/ 110 hubs, stubaxles and CV's. these are the strongest cv's landrover made, and drivemember has more engagemant in the splines than the later ones. driveshafts are cheaper 23/24 spline ashcroft ones. that setup, together with a detroit diff has proven very strong, touch wood no breakages yet.

^^^^ wot he said..... i forgot that! it's what i run in my 90. with the ashcroft 23/24 HD shafts

[white90]

dieseljim already came up with the goods for the rear, I would like to add my opinion for the front: fit early 90/ 110 hubs, stubaxles and CV's. these are the strongest cv's landrover made, and drivemember has more engagemant in the splines than the later ones. driveshafts are cheaper 23/24 spline ashcroft ones. that setup, together with a detroit diff has proven very strong, touch wood no breakages yet.

you can run the 110 CVs in the later hubs with only a couple of relatively easy mods.

remove needle roller bearing from stub axle replace with bronze bush (maxi drive sell these)cost around £30-40 then either use MD over height drive members or make up a spacer to go behind the standard drive members.

the over height ones are 62mm tall.

then you retain your hubs/brakes etc etc

that is what I have done.

then if and when funds allow you can fit uprated CV's

[ashtrans]

Hi,

I think the most cost effective upgrade for the shafts and CV's would be to use the bush / spacer method of fitting AEU 2522's (as Tony mentioned) or fit early outers with 2522's together with a pair of our 23/24 spline front shafts,

I have a sketch of this bronze bush somewhere if you would like it,

as Tony mentioned this leaves you with the option of uprating the CV's later if required,

you may want to look at doing the diff first though as the stock one will not last long off road, if you are keeping the car the only real option is to save up for an ARB, the 4 pin or Truetrac will cost 2/3 rds of the cost but the ARB will be worth the extra long term,

[Astro_Al]

Dave - since he's doing this low budget, is there any point in him adding a slipper pad to his open diffs for now?

It'd be cheap if he can do it himself, and might help them last longer?

Cheers, Al.

[white90]

Dave/Warthog

I have spare bushes here if you want to reproduce one

only phosphor bronze

I can't reproduce one I'd have to ask Scrumps

[jules]

I know there has been loads of info on whats what etc. But all im looking for is guide on the best "Toughest" compromise on axle internals for a low budget. I know LR Axles have a rep for being choco, but there must be some light at the end of the tunnel. No Ashcroft, or Axle swaps.

@ Present im running stock Defender 300TDI era axles front and rear, running 33's

I can find lots of info on whats in what, but no easy guide to getting the most out of genuine LR Diffs, Shafts CV's

Cheers

Mark

NB I havent read the other posts but I ran 12,50 33's for three years and never broke anything running standard parts the problems started when I fitted the Diff lockers

If you don't drive like a ars you will be fine but I wouldn't go much bigger..

I would rely on momentum and keep wheel spinning to a minimum

[white90]

sound advice from Julian

breakages have normally led from spinning wheels/airbourne then heavy landings

[istruggle2gate11]

Another piece of advice given to me by a Veteran Off-Roader.....

Never let the diff (i.e. one wheel) slip for the sake of it (say spinning wheels up a grassy hill) if you can avoid it.

Apparently, this can cause rapid wear on the already suspect pin through the centre, causing it to either oval the mounting hole and eventually break or just break or allow you to think you have survived, just to break next time on the mildest of things.

Never been able to prove it, as I had ARBs fitted by this time.

[Daan]

you can run the 110 CVs in the later hubs with only a couple of relatively easy mods.

remove needle roller bearing from stub axle replace with bronze bush (maxi drive sell these)cost around £30-40 then either use MD over height drive members or make up a spacer to go behind the standard drive members.

the over height ones are 62mm tall.

then you retain your hubs/brakes etc etc

that is what I have done.

then if and when funds allow you can fit uprated CV's

I bought complete corners of an old 110 on the old sodbury sortout for a 10er each and used the bits of this. Its a so much nicer setup, all standard LR bits, and more importantly a much stronger setup since the wheel bearings sits further apart. Important if you run big offset wheels. the brake disks still fits as well. I did the back end in a similar way, in order to have wide hubs there as well.

Daan

[white90]

luckily there are so many variables for ££ and ability

just as I had a late 300TDI I didn't want to remove and replace the swivels outwards with older gear.

keeping the orig parts also helps me when ordering parts,

if I was doing a TD5 I'd keep the newer gear too

on an older axle your route sounds the way to go.

mine was only a few years old when mine was done

[will_warne]

Hi,

I think the most cost effective upgrade for the shafts and CV's would be to use the bush / spacer method of fitting AEU 2522's (as Tony mentioned) or fit early outers with 2522's together with a pair of our 23/24 spline front shafts,

I have a sketch of this bronze bush somewhere if you would like it,

as Tony mentioned this leaves you with the option of uprating the CV's later if required,

you may want to look at doing the diff first though as the stock one will not last long off road, if you are keeping the car the only real option is to save up for an ARB, the 4 pin or Truetrac will cost 2/3 rds of the cost but the ARB will be worth the extra long term,

As Dave suggests, work backwards from engine as things tend to get easier / cheaper to repair the further down the drivetrain you go. Before you do anything make sure the gearbox and transfer box are in good health otherwise these are likely to throw in the towel.

Diffs - 4 pin (either open, lsd or locker) are an early port of call. Standard diffs aren't ver strong.

Rear halfshafts - V8 HD shafts as Jim suggests are a good budget option. If you have a higher budget Ashcroft, Maxi Drive or Quaiffe are good choices.

Front axle - If the CV is in good health you will always break a standard halfshaft first. Early AEU2522 CVs (23 spline) are stronger than the later 32 spline CV. The standard shafts that go with the former also have a larger minimum shaft diameter although it is only 10 spline at the diff end. This limits your choice of diffs (there were no 1 spline open diffs made by Land Rover meaning your only choices are lockers or lsd's) although it is a superior setup to the later, 24 spline, axles. As Dave suggested the best compromise solution is some 23/24 spline shafts (his are excellant) in conjuncture with AEU2522s and a 4 pin diff. Both the conversion of later axles (bush + deep drive flange) and earlier hubs and stubs work fine. I ran the former when I used AEU2522 CVs and now use Ashcroft CVs which are a replacment for the standard item. I ran 35" tyres for several years without wheelbearing issues - IMHO always use genuine bearings and stub axles.

HTH

[Warthog]

I bought complete corners of an old 110 on the old sodbury sortout for a 10er each and used the bits of this. Its a so much nicer setup, all standard LR bits, and more importantly a much stronger setup since the wheel bearings sits further apart. Important if you run big offset wheels. the brake disks still fits as well. I did the back end in a similar way, in order to have wide hubs there as well.

Daan

Any chance of some more info on your above set-up Daan. Or maybe a couple of piccies for comparison? (from anyone) I would consider getting the parts new so any parts numbers could help

Old Sodders is just round ta corner, so im eager to get some idea of what i can pick up there

If i can get a good compromise that will allow me to abuse the driveline now and then, i will be happy. There is always the odd front end bounce and spinning wheels. So far i have been lucky!

Cheers

Mark

[Warthog]

Daan,

How did you go about sorting the back end out using the older 90/110 hubs etc? I like the sound of the extra offset, as im intendind to run at least 12.5's

Cheers

Mark