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Instrument Pod Swap


blz6662

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This might be a dull one so excuse me in advance. Can you interchange the Instrument Pod 1987/88 Quadrant scale type fo the later Rounder stye type found on the pre-softdash variant? If you can what are the issues - speedo drive etc.

Many thanks

Bade

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Guest diesel_jim

I think that the electronic speedo is just fed from a speed transducer that fits into the transfer box. you'll need the 6" conversion cable to connect it into the t/case, then it's just a coulpe of wires up to the ECU/speedo.

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I think that the electronic speedo is just fed from a speed transducer that fits into the transfer box. you'll need the 6" conversion cable to connect it into the t/case, then it's just a coulpe of wires up to the ECU/speedo.

thanks D Jim sounds good I'll try that.

Anyone else anything to add

cheers

Bade

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thanks D Jim sounds good I'll try that.

Anyone else anything to add

cheers

Bade

OK checked it all out, got transducer, cables etc. Sorry for the dull bit can anyone say where the wires would link up on a 87 type Flapper ECU.

CHEERS

Bade

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Hi bade,

I did not know that the flapper-type Ecu needs the input from a road speed transducer.

What I remember is that the the unit that generates the signal is a direct fit into the LT230 - because I had bought a LT230 from a late MY Disco1 that had this thing and I removed it to put in a common speedo drive. Well, it´s been said above.

To be honest I had the very same thing in mind. And I already collected a binnacle from a 1992 RRC to replace my 1988 instruments. The RoadSpeedtransducer is no more necessary for me (using Megasquirt). But my main concern lies in the connection to the printed circuit. There seem to be two places to which the harness connects to. I do not have a direct comparison so cannot tell that the pin assingment is the same. It may have changed as the warning light cluster in the middle of the binnacle is different with those model years.

I still have some other things to sort out in order to get the RRC back onto the road, so the instrument swap is not first priority. But I would much prefer the newer style instruments and getting rid of a speedo cable.

So I hope I may watch the progress you´re doing in this project. Please keep this thread updated !!

Sorry for being more of a thread-parasite rather than of any help ;)

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Hi Bade,

how do things go on ??

Please update the thread if you could proceed or have further info.

Thx!!!

Yeah check out the photo - when i received the box (nice man - plus loom) see whats attached - I'll take some photos of the loom, plugs etc and any help on the instrument end would be good bearing in mind this came out of a 300tdi disco

cheers

Bade

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Lucky you. That is no old-fashioned speedo drive. Therefore has to be the sender that you need. You have the loom. So if anywhere, then the problems may or may not start at the instrument pod. I think as long as the vehicle harness connector to the "new" printed circuit of the new-shape instrument pod fits, everything else can be arranged.

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  • 1 month later...
Any news ?

Still fighting with axle refurbs at the moment, moving onto the rear axle in a couple of days, then the welding repairs, then the roof off and front windscreen rail replacement, roof refit and rear aussie wheelarch fitment, then leather and wood interior upgrade, Thennnn, solve high hydrocarbon exhaust readings, TTHHHEEEnnnnnn drive it to my mates to fit rebuilt Ashcroft R380/lt230 gearbox and existing speedo set-up, THEN! MOT Thennnnnnnnn mmmm what shall I do? Oh yeh landybehr wants to know whats the latest on the instruments!!!! I will get onto it then mate HONEST.

Merry Spannering and Happy New Hammer to all

Bade

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi,

ok .. I´ve given you another week to complete the tasks.

Any news ?

FINNNIIISSSHHHHED err not! I'm on the rear axle now (not me literally) sh**e off shiny on - just got some qt rose jointed rear radius arms! wow cool as! Having a weekend on my mates (Ted the Hat) Defender 90 200tdi this weekend need weldy bits to make the rear crossmember better and rear light units (watch where you are reversing you old *Hat - too late) aanndd MOT doh!

Sorry landybehr work n mates stop rangies progress Grrrrrrr

cheers mate

Bade

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Hi Bade,

further research has revealed that the RRC does feed it´s speedo not by the transducer that you have mounted at the LT230 but rather uses the road speed transducer which is bolted to the l/h gearbox mount at the left chassis rail.

On my 88-89MY Classic that Road Speed Transducer has a "feed through" for the speedo cable and a wire emerging which is connected to the ECU. I do not know a) whether that transducer is the same on the 90> MY Classics and B) if it just does not matter which of the three transducers in question are compatible to the electronic speedo. My guess is that any of them will do.

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Hi Bade,

further research has revealed that the RRC does feed it´s speedo not by the transducer that you have mounted at the LT230 but rather uses the road speed transducer which is bolted to the l/h gearbox mount at the left chassis rail.

On my 88-89MY Classic that Road Speed Transducer has a "feed through" for the speedo cable and a wire emerging which is connected to the ECU. I do not know a) whether that transducer is the same on the 90> MY Classics and B) if it just does not matter which of the three transducers in question are compatible to the electronic speedo. My guess is that any of them will do.

Nice one dude, thanks for doing the hard work for me. - still working on other peoples 90's & series IIa's

cheers

Bade

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Guys I've kinda skipped over the thred so not sure whether you're all sorted or not but below is the scene in my early RaRo... I've just stuck a Td5 in and am wrestling with the wiring. But basically the easy bit is making the '92 RaRo instrument loom talk to my original '73 instrument loom. The '92 connectors are the two white ones and the black one just in the shot is the '73. What I'm doing is soldering the wires from the '92 straight onto the little copper spring type terminals in the '73 connector. I don't want to start cutting up my nice clean '73 loom.

Anyhoo if there's anything I can confirm or deny for you guys while I'm at it then let me know.

Oh and the other thing is that even with 34 years between the two looms many if not all of the wire colour codes are the same. Oh and be aware that there's a 3rd connector on the '92 binnacle. And in you're case its the most important as it takes the feed from the speed transducer. If you haven't noticed it its top left of the binnacle as you look at it from the back. Much smaller then the two main connectors. Mine has an earth (B), feed from the main lighting switch (RN) (so controls the instrument lighting) and the feed from the transducer (Y). Althought there are four or five unused channels on the connector.

EDIT; Just realised it's a ****e pic, I'll take a close up today.

Oh and I have a floundering thread in the Defender forum about my troubles with getting the dam Td5 running, if any of yez can help I'd be much obliged :D

2nd EDIT; Turns out the wiring code for Red/Brown is the programming code for smilie with shades heh.

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Hi Shackleton,

many thanks for joining and pointing me the right direction.

At FIRST – there are two wires with White-Green colour code coming to the binnacle. I have trouble to assign that colour to anything. Only place I found this on the Haynes Manual had to do with the air con system. So probably wrong. I am quite sure the colour is white-green and not white-lightGreen.

Any info would help. Otherwise I think I have things sorted comfortably by comparing two binnacles.

FYI :

There must be 3 printed circuits altogether:

A) for the mechanical speedo <89MY

B ) for the elect. speedo (with the hazard/indication lights in just one warning light)

C) for the elect. speedo (but with l/h and r/h indicator lamps with 2 different bulbs)

IT´s B ) and C) that differ in the pin assignment of the left, big connector

(when talking left and right I am looking from behind of the instrument pods, where the printed circuit is).

AFAI can see the connectors are like this :

(this only counts for the C) printed circuit as that is what I have chosen to use because the loom-end I have gotten is like this)

(always from left to right, and seen from the rear of a connector - i.e. viewing at where the cables go into the connector):

Small yellow connector:

1. ground (black)

2. instrument illumination (red-brown)

3. speed transducer input (yellow-pink) [the road speed transducer has “ignition+”supply with white wire and it´s signal emerging is colour coded yellow. Don´t know why the “yellow” of the cut loom end I have is actually “yellow-pink”. That is what the Haynes Manual says. When I take a Transducer and look at the two wires that come out of it, they are 1) Green and 2) Yellow. Not sure what to make out of that]

4. not sure (printed circuit reads “SP” there) Not used!

5. not sure (connected to ignition on?.). Not used!

6. seat belt warning light. Not used.

left big connector

1. ABS light when talking about printed circuit= C) (black-slate)

(on B ) this goes to the upper-right light with “o-!-o”)

2. EFI light (black-yellow)

(on B ) this goes to ABS-light)

3. R/H indicator C) (weird symbol on B ), looks like “o-!–o”) (green-white)

(on B ) this goes to Efi-light)

4. trailer (lightGreen-pink)

5. main beam (blue-orange)

6. ground (black)

7. L/H indicator C) (or hazard warning light B )) (green-red)

8. low screen wash (yellow-black)

9. brake pad wear (black-white)

10. brake failure, handbrake on (black-pink. 2wires of that colour coming in)

right big connector

1. tacho input to gauge (white-slate)

2. not sure (“TA”) (white-green)

3. unused, would illuminate a cold-start light.

4. autotrans temp warning (black-purple)

5. Fuel gauge (green-black)

6. oil pressure warn. (white-brown)

7. charge light (brown-yellow)

8. not sure (white-green)

9. low coolant (green-yellow)

10. water temp gauge (green-blue)

The warning lights are, as viewed from the drivers seat:

B )

[Hazard light] [main beam] [ o-!-o]

[brake pad] [trailer] [EFI] (efi looks like “!”)

[brake fail] [screen wash] [ABS]

[autotrans ] [Cold start] [seat Belt]

[charge] [oil press] [low coolant]

C) is very much the same except for the first row which reads:

[ <= ] [main beam] [ => ]

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Well,

in case my problem is hidden under too much text:

I hope any of you can tell me:

1) what the white-green wire is for

and

2) what the yellow and green wires of the RoadSpeedTransducer are for.

I´d guess the green wire of the Transducer supplies 12volt and the yellow is the signal. But that could be wrong

I hope that I simply can grasp the signal wire that transfers the road speed signal to the Hotwire-ECU and extend it to the plug on the back of the speedo, not bothering about green wires. Not sure the transducer in the RRC is the same as the one on the bench though.

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Hi,

can almost answer one question myself:

the RoadSpeed Transducer get´s 12V and let´s the signal oszillate 6times per revolution of a road wheel.

So white-wire is supplying 12V, goes to a plug before the transducer. Back there goes the yellow wire to ECU/speedo. The plug before the Transducer is attached with two wires to it, one yellow and one green. Maybe it does not matter which way round they are connected - with some sensors (crankshaft etc.) it does matter - without further info I´d try yellow-to-yellow and the green to what is left (i.e. 12V supply).

So,

still wonder about the 2 white-green wires (and why 2 of them go to one plug behind the instr.pod) ??

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

the Elect. Troubleshooting Manual for the 1992! model RRC could answer something:

The wiring loom end and instruments that I´ve got are for the best I can see for an post-1992 hard dash model.

1) my speed signal wire is not Y but YK (yellow-pink) because it´s got sth. to do with a buffering unit that (to my interpretation) should cushion the input. That rests (talking about LHD model) on the outer footwell to the left of the drivers left foot. It looks like a relais and has the same pin/connector arrangement like a relais.

2) the WhiteGreen wire between ChargeLight & LowCoolant connector is a 12V input when the ign.lock is in position II or III. It´s definately coming from the fuse for the instrument pod (fuse name may be F B4, 10Amps rating)

3) the second WG wire is not that easy to sort. But when following the paths on the printed circuit it looks like it feeds an 12V supply to warning lights, I presume doing so at startup for a few seconds to check that the bulbs are working. IIAC these bulbs are connected: Handbrake/BrakeFail, BrakePadWear, EFI, LowScreenWash, ABS, AutotransTemp, ColdStart, SeatBelt, LowCoolant.

So I would try not to connect the second first, then see what happens without it. Then see what happens with it temporarily connected to 12V. Then decide what to do with it (like find any timer-relais or connect it to the starter solenoid-wire).

And, after all, I´ve spent much more time into research than I ever imagined.

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Ok,

I´ve succeeded. I think so, at least.

I´ve just cut the old 88MY loom and connected it to a 92MY loom end.

After taking the old (88MY-type) binnacle away I notived that the speedo had failed because the 90deg-angle drive has failed: there´s a disc that acts as a plug (I´ve found that on the floor some months ago without being able to identify it) and with this being away the plastic gear inside dislodged a little and disconnected itself from the speedo-cable.

Now, I´ve had a look at the Haynes wiring diagram and what I found in my LHD car. Some differences:

Trailer light wire was colour coded "PK". I expected LG-K.

There were two YB wires coming in. YB is for low-coolant. Only one of them needed to be connected. Don´t know what the other one is for. I left it alone, insulated, and will watch. There is 12v going to the coolant level switch in the coolant reservoir. If the coolant is high, the 12v is forwarded to the wire which goes to the binnacle. If the level switch disconnects the circuit it takes about 20-30seconds and the light will flash (on the new binnacle). When I bought my RRC the level switch was bridged with a wire to not let me see the car was loosing water !!!

Mainbeam light wire of the old loom was WB. The new loom has UO. (UO is for RHD)

There is one wire GO which I cannot assign. I thought it´s got to do with low-coolant. It goes to a electronic device called Multifunction unit behind the tacho.

There are two wires BW coming in. Haynes says BW is for brake pad wear. In my RRC one is BrakePadWear indeed, the other came from the Brake-Fluid-level-Warning-Switch. I connected that to the "HandBrake/BrakeFail" light on the newer binnacle.

Handbrake is BK and I connected it to the Handbrake/BrakeFail light aswell.

WK and W are 12V supplies

B and BR are ground.

On the new loom all two WG wires I kept on asking for needed to be connected to 12V-ignition-on (i.e. WK and W from the old loom)

There is one BS (black grey) wire coming from the old loom. I have no use for it. Obviously there is no use in connecting it to the same-colour wire on the new loom which serves the ABS-light (which´s wire will be grounded to illuminate).

A low-fuel wire GS (i think) is present on the old loom and has it´s own light. It´s no longer needed on the new binnacle because the fuel gauge seems to analyse the sender unit´s signal and decides without further info when to illuminate a small light next to the gauge.

All I need to do is get it ready for a test drive. Last thing needed to be checked is the speedo. I comfortably took the yellow wire wich goes to the Lucas ECU at the right of the transmission tunnel and spliced in a wire which I routed to the new elect. speedo. Hope that works.

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Hi one last thing and then I´ll stop to push the thread up to top all the time :)

speedo works. Very nice.

just for being "precise": I said that (looking at the rear of the instruments) on the small yellow connector the 1st pin is ground, second instrument illumination and third speedo input. The last is wrong. Speedo input is the fourth pin (when counting from the left to right, which is opposite way of how Rover names the pins).

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.........There were two YB wires coming in. YB is for low-coolant. Only one of them needed to be connected. Don´t know what the other one is for. I left it alone, insulated, and will watch. .....

For some reason the loom has coolant level wiring down both sides of the engine bay so that is why two came to the binnacle.

Steve

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