Shackleton Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I'm at the point where I've been doing my homework on registering the engine/fuel type change with our VRO. So I found the right form online but guess what the first thing it looks for - an engine number. I was so caught up in checking the condition of the engine and getting back to the ferry that I never thought to check the engine number and lo and behold when I got back to Ireland there feckin' wasn't one. So what do I do? Go to the UK Police? But what can they do without an engine number - they can't identify it either way??? So how do I get myself a legit engine number to put on my form? This is bad isn't it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Will the person you bought it from know what the number is? If they have the V5 for the vehicle it came from. There is a sound reason for it not being there in that the engine has been decked (top face of block machined). Once you know the number you can stamp it on. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Has the engine number been removed? Do you know the registration number of the vehicle the engine originally came from? Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Is 'Not Known' a option ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 No the guy I bought it from didn't know who did the conversion, plus I doubt it's been machined - A. because its a Td5 and B. cause knowing my luck it's hotter then the sun. The eingine number seems to have been welded over, and ground back either that or it's bonded on at the factory cause thats kinda what the surface looks like. I thought if I carefully ground back the weld I might get to the pits of the stamp but I reckon I just made it worse in a patch so I stopped. I only have the reg of the car I took it out of, which was a RRC. I'll ring the VRO tomorrow and see what they say about 'not known' Someone said that the UK Police issue engine numbers when they have a reclaimed lump and are selling it on or whatever. Is that true? They'd hardly issue one without having the history of the lump though would they? The last thing I want is an illegitimate truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 do you think that tellling the authorities this early is a good idea? you might be better finding out everything you can about that engine and working your options out. don't forget you aren't dealing with common sense people here- these are bureaucrats you are dealing with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 Bloody good point I was just having this conversation about the history of the car with Ian (Porny) today. I was saying that you guys in the UK are a fairly tight knit community and the LR scene is quite the grape vine. I know for a fact that the guy I bought it from isn't gonna be much help, whether that's cause he genuinely doesn't know or he knows too much if you get me. The RRC the lump was put into was of '91 vintage, originally that rare LR metallic brown colour but resprayed Rioja red metallic and on Firestyle or whatever 5 spoke alloys. Ring any bells by any far flung chance. Oh also I reckon it lived on a Stud or somewhere with lots of animal urine cause I've never seen alu so badly corroded and someone had at least one little girl cause there were lots of childish hair paraphernalia inside the car. oooh it's gotten all CSI in here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I'm sure you know the Td5 engine numbers correct location, but if not it's on the engines left side below the exhaust manifold & the digits are stamped into the casting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkw90 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 When i have had imports in the past some have had not know on the v5 , so it should be ok . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 I'm sure you know the Td5 engine numbers correct location, but if not it's on the engines left side below the exhaust manifold & the digits are stamped into the casting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 looks like a definite weld over job & not very good one at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 That doesn't look good, I don't know why anyone would want to do that for a good reason As I understand it: They can use an acid etch technique to recover the engine number, as stamping causes a change to the metal underneath. If you can show the history for the car there is a chance that the police will deem it not worth investigating I guess, since they might recover the number, but might have no idea what it came from, if the engine has been in it for some time, if you see what I mean. I'd be tempted to inform the coppers and get your money back from the guy as he has sold a potentially stolen item. If it turns out to be legit, or they don't bother then you could come back to an arrangement. Gutter when you get something like that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Oh Dear You do have a problem, thats been "Got at" .........without a doubt. There is only one reason and one reason only for this - to hide the fact of the number and that its prob dodgy. If (on V8s easy) you have the blocked machined like a cylinder head the number can vanish, but your left with a maga smooth machined surface ....often with just a hint of number, ...........what you have is the "Pikey-with-a-welder-n-grinder" syndrome, I would not presume to tell you what to do, but you need to think it through, if you knowingly drive around with what you consider to possibly be a stolen engine at best that is prob "Not too clever" but the options otherwise almost certainly mean a potential £s loss, if not a load of hassle. Unlucky you, caviat Empnor spring to mind, I would start with a call to the seller, see what he says, at the end of the day you can point out if reported he can expect a "Visit" from the police. That may strike a cord Its a nasty world out there, sorry to hear your probs, hope they work out, keep us informed maybe ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 If it's any help my V8 is a factory recon job and it had the engine number ground off and a plate stuck to the front of the block with a new number. It's possible your plate has just fallen off and a pikey has just happened to weld over the original location for no good reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 If an engine number is filed off, then weak acid can be used to find out what it is - due to the fact that the metal under the numbers is still compressed from the stamping process. Welding over a number neutralises the structure of the metal and makes it impossible to recover the number. There's a very good chance however, that you would still be allowed to keep the engine as it can't be proven that the engine was stolen as it's identity can't be confirmed. Sorting it out right now is a much safer option - getting a tug in the future and the Police noticing the missing number would look a lot more suspicious. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 ffs It's one thing that I made the mistake, it's another that I spent money on the mistake and the icing on the cake that I've put six months hard graft and a stack more money into renewing stuff on the lump and getting it into my baby. The guy I bought it from gave me his flyer at the time (he does LR work in the Cabridgeshire area) and thankfully I took screen grabs of the ebay listing at the time which include his name and phone number, plus I've just remembered that the reg plates have Wisbech Vehicle Exchange on them so there's another avenue of exploration. I shall be making 'difficult' phonecalls tomorrow. So arms me a little better, am I to understand that a vendor of a potentially stolen item in the UK is obliged to refund cash? Or it that just common sense/decency cause I can hear him saying stick it up yer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 PMSL at Fridegfreezer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 ffs So arms me a little better, am I to understand that a vendor of a potentially stolen item in the UK is obliged to refund cash? Or it that just common sense/decency cause I can hear him saying stick it up yer... No, but he may wish to 2Aviod" even more interested and difficut conversations with the stolen vehicle squad, who do know what they are doing He may equally be innocent, and equally duped, but he has to be a starting point, his reaction should tell you all you need to know................. You have lots of info to interest an investigator Good luck Nige PS any doubts - even if you get your money back I would still report him meself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 You soon find out who the dodgy geezers are in these types of threads! Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 If an engine number is filed off, then weak acid can be used to find out what it is - due to the fact that the metal under the numbers is still compressed from the stamping process. Welding over a number neutralises the structure of the metal and makes it impossible to recover the number. There's a very good chance however, that you would still be allowed to keep the engine as it can't be proven that the engine was stolen as it's identity can't be confirmed. Sorting it out right now is a much safer option - getting a tug in the future and the Police noticing the missing number would look a lot more suspicious.Les. yes, I wasn't sure about mentioning the way to remove the deeper traces, although I thought welding didn't do it (well not unless you get a LOT of head in to reform the metal structure) but that hammering the carp out of it would effectively remove the compression. I think small claims court would be a shoe in to recover your cash from the seller if the police took the engine, but by mentioning it here you have made it difficult for you to 'not notice' until pulled, if they dug a little. As said, if they can't prove it's stolen, they will give it back, but the rumours I've always heard is that they are a bit lax in terms of returning it in the same state it went. For example they might strip it down to get to the plate and attempt the number recovery, they may just deliver it back in however many pieces it happens to be in then. All very much 2nd/3rd/32nd evidence, and I don't think I have actually met anyone that has happened too and with you being over the water it might all be very different too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Deep in the poo without a paddle ................ Just grind the surface flat ...................... you already know the TD5 prefix .............. then stamp a new number, preferably use one from a known scrap engine.......................then of course it was like that when you bought it After you stamp the number.............leave it somewhere damp for a day or three to allow surface corrosion to begin I don't normally advocate this type of thing, but I can see that you bought it in good faith ..............it just saves a bucket load of grief........ Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porny Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Is a shame it's not a latter ECU (NNN****) type as we could get the Chassis Number of the vehicle it came from (well, where the ECU came from).... and HPI it etc etc and trace the engine number. One option would be as bull bar cowboy suggested - there are a few knackered engines around (oil pump failures etc etc). If you do everything properly then you 'may' have problems and get loads of grief.... but then if you don't sort it out, it may cause problems later!! Tis a bit like having an SVA done - i.e. do you do it or not .... The other, innocent explanation is that it is an engine from a stolen recovered car... I know of a few engines that have had the numbers removed - but ideally you would need a receipt for the engine purchase from a breaker, stating where the engine is from etc etc. AFAIK... the DVLA will just record 'no engine number' on a V5 if the number is missing - though you may need proof as to why it's missing. By the way your ECU will be in the post tomorrow, so should be with you Friday or Saturday if still needed. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I would advise you to go to the police as if it comes to light at a later date that you were aware or did anything to colude in the offence you will be in the poo big time esp in view of your location, whre a lot of stuff goes IYKWIM ON the plus side you will be aiding in the detection of the scum who blight our ownership of land rovers . At the moment you have recourse re the seller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 Oh yeah I need the ECU! It's plug and play though right - I woke up in the middle of the night thinking 'he did say I nidn't need to program, DIDN'T HE???' Right so I've spoken to 3 different people, the VRO, the guy I bought from and the crowd who's name is on the reg. plates. The upshot is that the guy I bought the car from was able to provide me with the engine number. Whats IYKWIM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Whats IYKWIM? If You Know What I Mean. Which you clearly do not! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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