landrover598 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I'm looking to buy a new recovery strap, can anyone recomend a good (and cheap) supplier. Ideally looking for something about 8 - 10 m long anyone used a strechy strap ? where can i get these from also ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I just use rope - you can buy from any chandlery. 24mm three strand white nylon, proper spliced eyes in each end and protect the eyes with some offcuts of old 2 inch fabric fire hose - tougher than anything you find on the eyes of ready made ropes to buy and you can usually scrounge a bit free from a fire station from where they scrap punctured hoses. My main recovery rope - about 10 metres of the above - has probably done somewhere around 100 recoveries a good proportion of which have been snatch recovery, and a fair number of those were quite serious ones (back right up and take off flat out in 3rd gear low range kind of serious - in the good old days before I bought a new 90 with a crossmember made of tinfoil). I've had mine about four years now and I guess it's about three quarters of the way through its useful life in terms of wear and tear; I already have a new one made up to replace it and I think it cost about £2.50 a metre, allowing an extra metre on each end for the eye and the splice that is £30 for a damn good 10m rope that will last for ages. It doesn't have to be used as stretchy - it won't stretch much on a steady pull if you take up the slack first - but it has plenty of twang if that's what's needed and since 24mm nylon is rated at 12 tons when new there's a good safety margin. As far as "proper" straps go, I know somebody here that has one of the ARB stretchy recovery straps and reckons it is brilliant, but I haven't seen it in action. No idea if you can buy them in the UK or not though, this one came from Oz I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Without wanting to get into the whole 'KERRs are dangerous' debate, I recovered a pal's 90 with a borrowed black-rat (I think) recovery strap and it was excellent. I don't know the full details, but the owner told me that it was meant to work kind of like a KERR but without as much stretch/spring. Certainly did the trick when I used it following a failed straight-pull with a non-stretchy rope. I didn't put much energy into it (i.e. I didn't take off at full pelt). Instead I recovered the stuck vehicle with a couple of small 'jerks'. I think he said it cost around £40 from a 4x4 show. If I had the money, I'd consider one. But I should add that I don't have much real experience of KERRs to compare it to. Only what I've watched others do, which, to me, appeared to be a lot more violent with far greater forces involved. I suppose what I'm getting at is that it appeared to be a middle ground approach which worked well and didn't scare the cr*p out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I'm looking to buy a new recovery strap, can anyone recomend a good (and cheap) supplier.Ideally looking for something about 8 - 10 m long anyone used a strechy strap ? where can i get these from also ? ARB do a really nice one I have a mean green one and Jules has an ARB one . Very good strops. Speak to Ed at Frog Island Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 Speak to Ed at Frog Island Thanks for that, just had a look at their website but they don't list prices have to call em tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 Any opinions on this , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) devon 4x4 ARB recovery strop ...I have one Blue with reinforced loops............. 3x versions, buy the highest rated 20% stretch....... so be extra F careful , more than a KERR ! Nige Edited December 19, 2005 by Hybrid_From_Hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 devon 4x4 Thanks but £55 is a bit out of my budget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 (edited) Oh sorry how about a 8m KERR at £35 (inc the dreaded) from www.muddytrout.co.uk then instead ? Nige Edited December 20, 2005 by Hybrid_From_Hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted December 20, 2005 Author Share Posted December 20, 2005 more my price but i'd prefer a strap, much easier to store and easier to clean/maintain I've been using this for about 3 years now, but i need something bigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 D4x4 do standard straps to for approx £20 there is also the firm "yellow strap" a google search may find them I have 3 of the Arbil ones from D4x4 and a Kerr that does me along with 125ft of plasma and a 125ft extension rope. if I run out after that lot I guess I'm buggered! unless I take the rear 100ft off and use that. Can you wait till a show? you'll get them cheaper there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 (edited) Hmmmmmmmmm Ok what you have used has basically no give in it.....when you "take off" the effort of your RPM + Gear + right foot will be proportional to the "Jeeeez F me" when it takes up..... No strop will be any different, strength yes, breakages yes, but for a more "Forgiving" recovery you need some "Give" KERR or the ARB Strop both do these. There is a whole worlsd of dnager here, as the softness hides the real danger of the stresses invovled, and as such many go faster / harder / madder to get the recovery done....many clubs have banned KERR from public use for these resonas, yet I wouldn't use anything else to recover as it saves my rear crossmember and fillings from damage. MTs Kerr is about as cheap as I have seen, try one, beats any non flex product, just be VERY aware that you are using what is a high grade elastic band, and as such they can snap, or worse remove tow balls, bumpers or hitches, and in one instance I did a recovery the entire rear cross member (badly welded but the owner was none too thrilled at the time) HTH Nige Edited December 20, 2005 by Hybrid_From_Hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Thanks but £55 is a bit out of my budget remeber you only get what you pay for and when it comes to this sort of thing, i know people who have bought cheap ones which have then cost them rear door windows and body damage when they let go. So end up costing more in the long run. It comes down to how much you consider your own satey is worth. to me 55 puonds is a good price for a goo quality strop. It will last you years. I have had my set for 3 years and they have been used alot but are showing no signs of wear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted December 20, 2005 Author Share Posted December 20, 2005 Yes, i hear what your saying, but after being on the end of a KERR which snapped i don't like using them. I always do slow speed recovery with a strap, if it won't go, then i'll winch it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted December 20, 2005 Author Share Posted December 20, 2005 . to me 55 puonds is a good price for a goo quality strop. It will last you years. I have had my set for 3 years and they have been used alot but are showing no signs of wear Exactly the same with my £9 MM strap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I would srtill say the ARB recovery stropmis a good piece of kit, Kerr and strop all in one and as you say easy to store.. KERR Breakages....yep, I rest my case, they do, and you just have to think the forces and the danger involved..... Nige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 (edited) KERR's are great if used properly an incident I was involved in earlier this year was discussed on LRE previously here's my story: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had driven the 90 nose down into a bog trying to recover it using a winch failed, So we broke out the kinetic rope the team connected it to my rear recovery using a substansial shackle then rather than connect the rope to the other vehicles nato hitch an extra strop was introduced I heard this being discussed but chose to ignore this. This is a MASSIVE NO NO once the tow vehicle drove off the 5" wide strop seperated the kinetic a shackle and the remaing strop then flew at towards my car with enough force to dent the spare wheel rim in at least 25mm(Bend the wheel carrier and damage the spare tyre found out at a later date) if the rear wheel hadn't been there either Val or I may well have not been for much longer. anyone can buy these items but I strongly suggest you get some proper advice in the correct useage before someone we all know on here is maimed of killed. I consider this event to be my fault entirley as I do know better but in the moment decided not to speak out. if you are unsure/feel unsafe don't do it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As it turned out after a discussion with the people involved it appeared the 5" strop had a knot in it that wasn't removed prior to the recovery attempt. I'm as guilty as all involved although I was sort of stuck in the car at the time and didn't get out to see whats was happening. The bang lives in my memory to this day.. as does the thought how lucky we are to be around to tell the tale. Edited December 20, 2005 by white90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted December 20, 2005 Author Share Posted December 20, 2005 and you just have to think the forces and the danger involved..... yep good job the rope broke at my end (me stuck being pulled forward) and went through the rear door of the towing vehicle and was stopped by a large toolbox If it had broke at the other end, hopefully my open bonnet would have slowed it down enough not to come right through my windscreen and into my face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 using a secondary "Bridle" can help here, the bridle is of a lower rating, and will equally break, as its not up to the recovery, but it acts as a "Brake" or "sail" in these events..... I am regularly stunned by the lack of the use of either and how so many aviod serious injury, I often get shouted at for taking too long to rig up and recover people who are in serious stuck situations, (as opposed to just a bit sort of stuck), but a few monwebts thought, and planning and care can make a huge difference...... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm Probaly at risk of going "Off Topic", not meant but poor recovery, poor recovery points, and dnagerous practises are a pet subject of mine ! Sorry ! Nige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Talking of which, that tow ball/pintle isn't up to proper recovery. I think a new topic is called for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 YEP !! I have done a article for the AWDC (was in some edition 2x ago ?) LR mag and now the HBRO, I'll dig it up and pits it here fer yer...make of it what you will, its basic stuff, but I am stunned when so many asked me questions on it ! Actuall;y its in a word doc, I'll e-mail it to yopu, and you can decide what to post ? Nige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Cheers Nige There is a new thread started for people to see/add to aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 "You have Mail" ducky Nige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Oh dear ... I go off for some supper and we're well into the "Snatch recovery is the spawn of Satan" discussion Yes it is dangerous So is driving off road So is driving on road So is going out the front door in the morning So is drinking a cup of hot coffee All if you don't weigh up the risks and act accordingly I have seen people do a LOT more damage to vehicles trying "snatch recovery with a solid rope" than the other way around... More often than not, driving off road here you can forget about recovering something with a dead rope (you'll end up with 2 stuck vehicles instead of 1) or a winch (the two vehicles will just get closer together...) so a bit of twang is the only solution. Used sensibly and with suitable precautions in making sure bits don't come off the vehicles at each end (I have a dent free vehicle, so was my last one, so I like to think my judgement is reasonable on this) it is safe enough. We have all seen either first hand or in photos, where snatch recovery has gone horribly wrong, and the one thing every case had in common is that somebody cocked something up, whether it was a bad recovery point, a good recovery point held on with the wrong bolts (or even stud bar!), an old rope which should have been thrown out, an idiot standing in the way taking pictures, or whatever. The key, IMHO, is OVERKILL - making sure everything is much, much stronger than it needs to be. The single most important thing after that is to make sure spectators keep the hell out of the way, IMHO, and shout at them if necessary. The second most important thing is to make sure no bits of metal are in a position to fly around. Shackles joining ropes together, shackles onto towing attachments, anything like that, all bad, Tony's example is a classic. It's one reason I use what I do, so if the other guy has only got lashing eyes on the front you can loop it over the bumper and the fire hose will stand that, if I rip the bumper right off then I figure I was trying too hard.... FWIW I don't own a "solid" strap and if I did I'd either use it for winching only, or throw it away - seen too many elongated crossmembers where somebody thought "I'll just give it a bit more and see if it will shift". Also spent many hours in a swamp in the middle of nowhere once (as a passenger) because nobody had a good stretchy rope that would have shifted us in minutes. Oddly enough I passed the very same hole the other week and the non-stretchy tow strap that somebody took there that day (brand new) and broke (three times) is still in the bottom of the hole five years later... Rant over, because my wine glass is empty Edited to say that what I mean by "overkill" can be seen on the other thread. 20 odd tonnes of tensile strength is adequate overkill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Not wanting to join the debat. I have collected over the years 5m kerr Ottons Landrover £19 8m kerr Ottons Landrover £25 5m normal £15 ottons Landrover 8m normal £20 Ottons Landrover Ottons were getting rid of old stock its grate what you can find in the bargin bucket ARB snatch strap (grate) Frog can't remember how much I've had it two years ARB winch extention Frog can't remember how much I've had it two years All big recovery stuff comes from Work or Frog as they always give me the best deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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