V8 Custom Exhaust Build - And Exhaust Build Info

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Hi All,

This thread is more a forum report for those of you with a 4x4 that needs that "Custom Exhaust" problem

I have had issues with my exhaust now for years,

When I 1st got the 90 V8 I fitted a Janspeed System,

to say I was disappointed would be the understatement of the century, the fitment was appalling,

and even after contacting them to discuss I can confirm the aftersales service is worse than the fit quality of the V8 system ,

they should be ashamed of themselves in so many ways.

What is not their fault, but was more a result of the engine I have is the exhaust was not really suited.

• The ports didn't match the large exit ports of the 'JED' ported heads
  
• The manifold tubework was too small a bore for the sort of Cubic Capacity of my engine
  
• The design was wrong for my application - 4 into 1
  
• and the Y piece and rear pipework equally was too small
  

But, over the last year or so I have had more importnant things - misfire (megasquirted) and some serious family issues,

as such the exhaust was there .....and had to do......

With the engine now Megasquirted and tuned, ....I once again turned my eyes on the exhaust

Some may remember my plea re exhaust builders and who you had heard of : http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopi...&hl=exhaust THREAD,

this gave me some contacts to look at and consider,

and I did I either rang or vsiited all of these and more, .....sadly all fell by the wayside due to one of the following reasons :

• I wanted to have a comapny that would build exactly .....or at least close to what I needed
  
• I needed certain size pipework having done my research
  
• I wanted to ensure I didn't have a huge barny re what had been done on arrival / collect / bill time
  
• I wanted if possible to be there to aviod many of the above issues
  
• Oh..........and I didn't wnat a second mortgage as well
  

With all of these companies I found that either :

• A huge arrogance - "we will need your truck for a week and no you can't be there"....
  
• Quotes - £2000 "maybe more" , "we specialise in quality exhausts - and no you can't be there"
  
• "Yes we can build anything (turn up) no we can't don't do that we only do 5" chav back box systems really"....
  
• "Yes we can build what you want (turn up) oh we can't do that size..."
  
• "You can't be here / see what we do / discuss what you want .....we know best"
  

..........and so it went on, .......amazing really .............they all lost out

Then I heard about :

Powerspeed Exhausts

Unit 3 Paddocks Farm

Bethersden Road

Hothfield

Nr Ashford

Kent TN26 1EP

Tel: 01233-662225

Fax: 01233-620889

Email: info@powerspeed.co.uk

www.powerspeed.co.uk

And I turned up and explained what I was after,

yes no problem,

can do that,

discussed the usage understood my concerns and issues

and yes if I was happy to turn up and stay all day and make sure that I got what I wnated then that suited them too,

a deal and date was agreed, 15th sept, and an early start for me.

To give some idea as to how I was impressed with Powerspeed over the others, these guys are a LONG way from me, Ashtead Kent vs Haslemere Surrey, but I thought the time distance (and <cough> fuel would be worth it), so ......what is being done then ?

Ok, 1st, for what we do, a V8 can either produce the power "Up" the rev range or give low grunt,

what I wnat is the grunt.

What I have now is 4 into 1, too small a bore and the headers being 4 into 1 means the power is shifted into the higher rpm range, yet the bore size is too small and as such the high rpm is strangled - even so it still goes "well", but what would it go like with low end grunt exhaust ?

This would means a 4 into 2 into 1 system and with a bore size to suit - that means 2 x 2inch downpipes each side, the 2 x 2 inch pipes going after around 18 inches length into a 2.5" single pipe each side, this then taking the 2x 2.5 inch pipes into a Y piece and the Y piece exiting as 3 inch all the way to the back and a Lambda sensor in the 3" Y exit for the Megasquirt.

The 4 into 2 was taken care of via the 2x JED Exhaust manifolds I managed to obtain, (see pics)

These are visually the same as 3,9 twin exit manifolds, except the exhaust inlet holes on the manifiold are huge and match the exhaust ports on the ported JED Heads, and the exits are huge to, 32mm as std beocme 50mm on these, with internal porting between the heads and the exits to match.

These are then linked to 2x special flanges - these allow the 2x twin pipes to join to the manifolds but with no gaskets, there is a raised locking plate that locates into the base off the manifold that seals via carbon soon after fitment. All faces were cleaned up and all new stiuds and base plates made / fitted

The exhaust is all stainless steel, a low grade(304) so as not to suffer cracking when hot zorst hits cold water, and thicker wall tube for strength and logevity, more later, but it was advised a confirmed by many that 304 wa the right tube to use, and uis goes a lovely straw gold color too

These twin manifold also require special larger gaskets, below are some pics for comparrison. Also if you ever have JED Manifolds you'll need the P38 V8 type 12 sided bolts to fit them as the std bolts won't - the castings are much bigger than std and the std bolts foul the port pipes

I can't seem to find a piccie of the exhaust ports, but they are much much bigger than std,

this means the Janspeed 4-1 manifolds on there with the std gaskets means the exhuast porting does have any bennifit as the gasses as the leave hit a large block in the port exit, ie the exhaust gaskets which are too small coupled to the manifold hole - equally too small,

As an indication here is the inlet side of the heads config, the porting continues in this vein through the heads and out of the hugely increased exhaust ports. with the JED manifold and gaskets these are now matched to the ports, so the exhaust gases can no have a party with space as they leave the combustion chambers

The system was in simple terms to be designed on a RR Classic 3.9 system :

The manifolds (not shown in the above drawing) known as "Primaries" - the 1st pipe out off the heads are the JED thingies ,

the flanges (No 2 in the pic) are JED and 50mm ID Holes for the 50mm pipework x2 (t6hese are called secondaries) which are no 1 in the pic,

but of MATCHED lengths and then going into 2.5 in into the Y piece the Y as it joins to 1 piece is 3"

and then 3 inch back from there, as to one or 2 silencers unsure at the start, it would be what would fit, ...

...inc where it would end up coming out from !

So, what happened then ?

Well at the 'Crack of sparrows F*rt' I left home and turned up at 7.30, this gave the engine and exhaust time to cool down, they arrived at 8.00 and jumoped on it big time, the old exhaust was removed (amongst much laughing pointing and sniggering) and the new JED Manifolds bolted on :

And the rest was down to the skill of Powerspeed, they cut bits of bends and offerred them up and they were tacked in place, frankly you try hard to see where the cuts are - if the welds weren't there you'd swear it was one continous tube, the qulaity of their work is superb, and the 2x downpipes took at least 2 hours to get just right. They started with the starter motor side at that is a pig, but the tubework was superb, I knew then I was in for a great system :

Note where the welded tubes go on the flange they cleaned and ported the inside of the system so as not to have weld interput the gas flow

More of the downpipes and tube work :

Then the cross piece, this was done as I asked enough clearnce for the gearbox oil filter, and don't worry re how close to the crossmember under the gearbox, they did eaxctly that another bit of a work of art :

This leaves the cross pipe very very clsoe to the gearbox crossmember - not their fault its what I askled for, I am already working on a modified crossmember which will give the required clearance, here is the work so far and it has given me a chance to pratise (and boy do I need it) TIG Skills

At this point they reckoned it was now "the easy bit" but it wasn;t really, the combo of roll cage, rear winch unit and 3" pipework turned the from the Y backwards section into a further nightmare, but much discussions and thought later a plan was hatched, a HUGE 3" SS Silencer was fitted it, and an ingenious route to the rear follwing the axle route was made, it loops under the rear cross member at the high point of the chassis so as to minimse its potential for being clouted, and I may even extend the protection on the towbar bracket, but its very neat solution :

The Exit after much thought just ahd to be in the rear wing, through the crossmember could give the being gassed issue, and it was thought it would ring as it would be going through 6mm plate, and the hole would have to be so big as to reduce the crossmeber wings strength hugely, under the winch tray was a no no when the dents there were viewed, and the wing seemed the best route, it also meant I got a handy tape measure holder :

Lastly I made the exit hole a tad bigger to give clearnce around the exit pipe and trimmed the wheelarchs a tad more as they catched up till now :

In summary, the workmanship is superb, we started at 8.00 and finished at 10.40PM , they wnated to do more but time ran out and most I can do myself. All joints are SS TIGged welded, the system is superb, I just need to sort out the crossmember (not their fualt I asked for it), make a ring to tidy up the exit piupe, and maybe add a extar bracket as the rear pipe seems to move slighly, all in all for the money (no I am not going to admit how much, but less than you'd think, consider a Janspeed or Double S Exhaust System add a bit and yopur there, less than 4 figs so you work it out ) I am chuffed to bits and would recomend them 100% without reservation, they know what they are doing

So, having been there for the day what have I learnt ?

Well, you wnat a system like the above I have learnt how it is done, and I wouldn't even attempt it, like the generation game they made it look so easy - its not

As I drove away out of the workshop I wondered if the Money was well spent,

Christ does it go, I drove back round the M25 backing off all the time, the engine is transformed, is goes like nver before, and after a solid days datalogging it goes even better. However for some odd and unknown reasosn the whine in 5th and 3rd seems to be getting worse, and I have no idea why

The zorst maybe is just a Tad on the noisey side, or it seems that way on the inside, .....Tonk, and others have just said it sound loverley

and for the mo I will see how it goes ......I may tweak it with a small second silencer later but my god "what a difference a day makes"

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Update

For those interested I have shoved the MS MSQ Fuel Map updates on the Megasquirt thread

Nige

Still 'givin it large like a chav'

[disco_al]

nice tidy job there - you must be well chuffed with that, good to see there is still some top quality workmanhship out there.

off round to maccy d's now then with your baseball hat on backwards is it???

[white90]

Where's a sound file?

[v8bazza]

Aye that's a crackin setup,

and "off round to maccy d's now then with your baseball hat on backwards is it???" is very funny from personal experience. oh and to rid myself from you all thinking i drive a 1.1 saxo, i drive a 1.9 turbo

When i get a landy, V8s is the route to go.

[V8 Freak]

Here you go Tony.....

Just from a phone so the microhone has a limited range... (The mic is picking up engine and gear noise because of it's frequency range)

Video Link

It doesn't do the exhaust justice.... It's a fantastic sound and even better when you are in the car and it's going through it's rev range!

It's a real V8 racing sound now and even had the occasional pop on deceleration / overrun.....

I may head back again this weekend just for another listen !

Neil

[bobtail84]

Here is a little vid of my 84 RR that i have dropped a 89 3.9 V8 and HFH has worked his magic on and it has headman headers down to 3" then on to the Y and 3" with a modest box... not quite as sexy as HFHs but nit far off..

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...754968412312629

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

For those who have asked and anyone interested :

Short bit of vid from mate re soundtrack whilst datalogging today :0

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=32431

Nige

[Daan]

I am not going to admit how much

Just when we read it all and sitting on the edge of our seats, you bell out!

Ok, great job, and glad you took my advice for not going through the crossmember.

Daan

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Just when we read it all and sitting on the edge of our seats, you bell out!

Ok, great job, and glad you took my advice for not going through the crossmember.

Daan

Yep,

Although as I understand it this (not going out the back) being your fault.........

your about to be served a writ from some dwarfs re the head height zorst and how they don't appreacite it

Nige

[cooper]

Wow that sounds awesome fella!!!! Just how i would love mine to sound

May have to pay them a visit in the very near future.

Shaun

[reb78]

Just thought i would ressurect this and thank Nige for the report.

Today i left my 110 with Matt at Powerspeed (the company has now moved up the road to Ashford in Kent). I picked it up this afternoon with a brand new stainless exhaust fitted perfectly to my defender 200tdi. I could have gone the standard route and bought another mild steel system, but powerspeed made and fitted a stainless system from the turbo back for not much more than a new exhaust system would cost from a main dealer. It was to replace my failing 19J TD system that i had coupled to my defender 200tdi. Whilst the 19J exhaust was ok, it seems now that it did strangle the engine performance a little!

The new system runs down a 2inch diameter downpipe (space and turbo outlet diameter determined this). The downpipe runs into a 2.5inch flexible section below the clutch slave cylinder (where the first join in the system is normally found). This then runs back through 2.5inch pipe and two 'straight through' silencers. Its quieter than the old system (certainly quieter than the short period i tried it without the centre silencer), the acceleration is much improved and the system has a lifetime warranty.

The chaps at Powerspeed remember the mamouth session on Niges V8! Fortunately my system was simpler and didnt take quite so long to fit!

[JeffR]

are you going to lag the pipes? reason I ask is that I had horrendous problems with a custom exhaust, the primaries next to the prop UJ were just close enough so that on tick over in traffic (ie. no airflow) they got hot enough to boil the grease out of the bearings over a very short period of time - went thro 6 UJs before we worked that one out. Similarly the wiring on the starter motor got seriously cooked in the Ambleside one way system (with none standard seats I could not get to the battery to disconect it) resulting conflagration was kinda impressive but luckily not terminal!

Shame I live so far from Kent!!!!

[reb78]

are you going to lag the pipes?

I'm not sure theres any need with mine. The pipe runs the same course as the original and that never caused any problems. My only worry is that the heatsheild below the clutch slave was not fitted to the new pipe, BUT the new downpipe drops lower than the old pipe into a flexi joint and the result is that it sits further away from the slave. Matt reckoned it would not be a problem to leave the sheild off. I may try and fit it, but fasten to the chassis rather than the exhaust pipework. TBH, i reckon that sheild would get really hot anyway and radiate onto the slave in traffic.