Police tyre checks

[nicks90]

unusual thing happened on the way home from work today and i thought you guys might like to know, bit of a warning maybe...

got pulled over by a traffic car and whilst one copper was having a chat with me, the other copper was inspecting all of my tyres (inc spare). The first copper was asking what engine and model it was, what year etc and generally prying for information about how standard it was.

He toddled back off to his car and spoke on the radio for a minute or two whilst the other bloke carried on inspecting the tyres - including the inside of each sidewall. Completely ignored the rest of the vehicle.

first copper came back and conferred with the second and then came over and told me 'Thanks, no problems you can be off now'. So i ask what it was all about and why he had stopped me. His answer was kinda worrying, but also makes sense. He was checking to see if the tyres fitted to my motor where load and speed rated for the make and model of vehicle. Said they are having a crackdown on 4x4's with damaged and/or incorrectly spec'd tyres.

Luckily the rubber i have are speed rated to 99mph and load rated well past the GVW for a 90csw. Phew.

But i know that several other makes of remould have a lower rating (some are 72mph i think) - so i asked him if it just needs to be to the legal speed limit or the vehicles theoretical top speed. Copper said it is most definitely to the vehicles top speed and has nothing to do with the national speed limit. Stupid i know, as you cant drive past 70mph, so why do they need to be rated higher?

So a warning to all, make sure your tyres are speed rated above the book speed for your vehicle in case you get checked. I am also presuming from his questions about what engine i had fitted - that if you have an all singing all dancing aftermarket nutter-engine that they will take this into account when checking the speed rating.

Nick

ps. this was wakefield, west yorks - no idea if this is a local, regional or national thing... so beware.

[sparg]

interesting - what is the speed rating of mud tyres?

[mmgemini]

Remember.

A few years ago a guy had a Rover SD1, 3,500. He had fitted a lower rated tyre to the vehicle. His argument to the courst was that as there was a 70mph limit he only needed tyres rated to 70mph. He was successfully prosecuted. IIRC he took it quite a way before giving up. So a precedent {SP} has already been set on speed ratings.

[Les Henson]

So if you had a hybrid vehicle - how would they know what the maximum speed of it would be?

Les.

[Turbocharger]

''100mph officer? Thank you - I was testing the car for my upcoming SVA''

[landmannnn]

You can also get done for under-inflated tyres. Great use of our taxpayers money.

[Tom A]

Sparg: you'll have to check the speed rating of your particular tyres, they vary quite a lot. Attached (hopefully) is a table that decodes the speed rating that's on the sidewall of your tyre. Go and look for something like "116 Q" embossed on the sidewall somewhere near the tyre size designation. The 116 is the load rating (1250kg in this case) and the Q is the speed rating of the tyre (160kph or 99mph in old money)

The law is that the speed rating of the tyres fitted must be greater than the declared maximum design speed of the vehicle they're attached to. I've no idea what that is in the case of a Defender but I suspect it's why there's a limiter on the new Transit engined versions, so if someone knows what speed that is please post....

I'd be extremely surprised if any copper could make a charge of incorrect tyre speed rating stick if you'd uprated the engine - the maximum design speed is declared by the original manufacturer during type approval and there's no regulation that changes that value for modified vehicles AFAIK. No idea about hybrids and heavily modified vehicles unless it's assessed during the SVA/IVA process?

Hmm, probably need some sort of legal disclaimer here - erm, everything I've written above is the result of a troop of monkeys randomly hitting keyboards and should not be taken as evidence of intelligence, let alone legal guidance.

[landmannnn]

No idea about hybrids and heavily modified vehicles unless it's assessed during the SVA/IVA process?

It is part of the iva.

[bishbosh]

You can also get done for under-inflated tyres. Great use of our taxpayers money.

Why?

Under inflated tyres overheat and blow out.

Do you fancy having 2 tonnes of Land Rover hurtling towards you and your family completely out of control?

It always amazes me that people will spend a fortune on cross drilled vented and grooved discs with bling bling callipers and colourful pads to then spend 50p on the tyres. Madness.

Rant over.

[Les Henson]

How does the IVA determine the speed of the vehicle? I'm sure they don't go and nail it down a strip to see what it'll do.

Les.

[Pam]

You can also get done for under-inflated tyres. Great use of our taxpayers money.

I might be reading landmannn's post wrongly, but it sounds like he doesn't think the Police should try to prevent accidents and prosecute people who break the law. Funny, I thought that is exactly what we should be paying them to do.

Sorry if I misunderstood but that is how it reads....

If you are caught with any illegal / defective / unsafe components on your vehicle, yes, of course you can 'get done'. Rightly so. As a driver you are responsible for ensuring you drive a safe vehicle. That's the law. Some people may think it doesn't apply to them and they 'know' their vehicle is OK but whatever, the law is the law and is there for good reason, not just to spoil someone's day.... Under-inflated or wrongly rated tyres are potentially dangerous, therefore a valid reason for getting pulled / a ticket.

It might do well for many 4x4 vehicle owners who claim their mods are all 'road-legal' to actually have a really good look at the law and decide if their safety, other road users safety and their driver's licence are more valuable to them that having the biggest, widest, baddest of everything...

Sorry, bit of a soap box one for me there....

The Police and MOT have been checking cars at the roadside for years, either on a case by case basis, or due to specific campaigns at certain times by individual regional police authorities or at national level. I don't see it as anything new / suspicious / underhand / worrying / menacing.

Perhaps we don't even have enough checks. .... for example Travelling in Australia last year I noticed they have a high number of official pull-over areas. We even got the once-over in the 100"....everyone was being pulled, so no one was being singled out, which I think works well. If it prevents accidents I'm all for it. After all, if your vehicle meets the requirements of the law and is safe there is nothing to worry about.

Imagine how much taxpayers money would be spent on the Police and other emergency services clearing up after an accident caused by an unsafe vehicle.....

[Aragorn]

The Construction and Use regulations stipulate this in detail, however they have not been published online. Only the amendments to them have been.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1995/Uksi_19950551_en_1.htm

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1991/Uksi_19912710_en_1.htm

Thats the amendments, however i cant find the regulation itself.

If anyone can get hold of the original 1986 C&U Regs and check regulation 25 plus those amendments we'll get a clearer understanding of whats actually allowed.

[landmannnn]

75,000 people in prison,

out of which 15,000 are there for motoring offences,

9,000 for burglary.

That isn't how I want my tax spent.

[jules]

You can also get done for under-inflated tyres. Great use of our taxpayers money.

Never had a blow out on a motorway have you

Most mud tyres don't have the correct speed rating for example how can people say that a 36" simex is speed rated to 100mph (which its not)

but you must be pretty dumb to think that all the mods people do are all legal

[white90]

O well at least you were within the Law

they are there to uphold laws they don't make them.

directives from above, just like speed cameras.

Hopefully this won't turn into a rant at the Police, As this is a forum for L/Rs I'm sure there are others out there where you can vent your feelings about all and sundry.

The Police around here seem to do a decent job and again this weekend were picking up the pieces and dealing with the Family of another road death victim on the A358 after a collision between car/motorbike.not the best of jobs

and not always the easiest.

[reads90]

mmm interesting. Could be a in a whole load of carp f you get caught with Simex extreme treckers on a disco or rangie

[jules]

75,000 people in prison,

out of which 15,000 are there for motoring offences,

9,000 for burglary.

That isn't how I want my tax spent.

Valid point

how many burglary's have killed people in relation to motoring offences

I lost my Dad in a RTA

[santalars]

Tyres are one of the most important safety features on the vehicle. As you are allowed to drive e.g. to Germany where partly no speed limit exists, the tire must be up to the maximum possible speed of the vehicle. (...for the smart ones: there is an allowance in the tire spec for increased downhill speed).

I was absolutely shocked having seen how many people drive bad tires here in Ireland. Luckily most tires take much abuse at lower speeds. As a German you will most likely know that a half inflated tire makes it approx 15min at 180km/h. Therefore you will be grounded for things like that by the German police.

However, in my eyes everybody can do whatever he thinks is ok as long as he takes the responsibility and can deal with the consequences. So if somebody kills somebody because of his bad tires, he should be ready to be punished equaly.

[SiWhite]

You can also get done for under-inflated tyres. Great use of our taxpayers money.

Splendid idea. Would you rather someone got some points for carp tyres or going to prison for killing your wife and kids?

Thought so.

Shall we close this thread, with a warning to all to sort their tyres out?

[reads90]

Tyres are one of the most important safety features on the vehicle. As you are allowed to drive e.g. to Germany where partly no speed limit exists, the tire must be up to the maximum possible speed of the vehicle. (...for the smart ones: there is an allowance in the tire spec for increased downhill speed).

There is in the Uk hence this whole post. Even though you can do more than 70 mph by law if you have a car that does 140 you hae to have tyres that can do 140 + . Hence also my post that Simex ET are not allowed on Rangies and Disco's but ok on a defender. Because the offical speed rating on a defender is lower than a rangie and disco.

[bishbosh]

mmm interesting. Could be a in a whole load of carp f you get caught with Simex extreme treckers on a disco or rangie

or BFG muds on a V8 of either of those. They're only Q rated - 99mph

[jimmy_neutron]

So what about them stupid half size spare wheels that are fitted in some cars. They are speed rated to something like 50mph.

So does that mean that if you fit your spare and are caught then you go to jail ???

The law must allow for this temporary wheel in some way.... and if it does, then why can't a defender run on 4 spare wheels with M/T's on em at a reduced speed of say 60mph ???

[Aragorn]

This is why i want to get a hold of the proper C&U regulation. Its not the first time police officers have talked a complete load of rubbish at the side of the road.

If you look at the amendments in 1995, it makes vague reference to not driving in excess of the speed the tyre is rated to. Theres also things on various tyre companies websites including kwikfit that says its not illegal, but just ill advised to fit lower speed rating tyres to a vehicle.

I suspect that contrary to what the policeman told you, as long as your not exceeding the design speed for the tyre, your fine.

The only way to tell for sure is to get a complete copy of the C&U Regs though. Perhaps its something one can look up in a library.

As an example, a few years back i was pulled over by the police and given a fine for having an exhaust that was "too loud". The system wasnt leaking or broken, it was just a Group N rally system fitted to a vauxhall nova. The copper had a VOSA inspector with him, who had stood at the back of the car with a decibel meter, asked me to "rev it a bit mate" then pronounced my car was 106db and that was too loud. I took the ticket and decided to investigate before paying. Went to the unis law library and dug out the C&U regs and looked up exhaust noise limits. Turns out the limit is somewhere around 89db (i cant remember exactly), but the regulation specifies a very precise way of measuring it, involving the car being in an open space, with n meters of room around it, and the engine at a specified RPM (3/4 of its max RPM or something) and the decibel meter positioned 7M from the side of the car... Not parked between two cop cars with the meter rammed up the tail pipe.

So i didnt pay the fine, and decided i'd take it to court and see where it went. Unsurprisingly, a letter dropped thru the door a few weeks after the fine was overdue, saying "on this occasion we have decided not to prosecute".

[reads90]

This is why i want to get a hold of the proper C&U regulation. Its not the first time police officers have talked a complete load of rubbish at the side of the road.

If you look at the amendments in 1995, it makes vague reference to not driving in excess of the speed the tyre is rated to. Theres also things on various tyre companies websites including kwikfit that says its not illegal, but just ill advised to fit lower speed rating tyres to a vehicle.

I suspect that contrary to what the policeman told you, as long as your not exceeding the design speed for the tyre, your fine.

The only way to tell for sure is to get a complete copy of the C&U Regs though. Perhaps its something one can look up in a library.

As an example, a few years back i was pulled over by the police and given a fine for having an exhaust that was "too loud". The system wasnt leaking or broken, it was just a Group N rally system fitted to a vauxhall nova. The copper had a VOSA inspector with him, who had stood at the back of the car with a decibel meter, asked me to "rev it a bit mate" then pronounced my car was 106db and that was too loud. I took the ticket and decided to investigate before paying. Went to the unis law library and dug out the C&U regs and looked up exhaust noise limits. Turns out the limit is somewhere around 89db (i cant remember exactly), but the regulation specifies a very precise way of measuring it, involving the car being in an open space, with n meters of room around it, and the engine at a specified RPM (3/4 of its max RPM or something) and the decibel meter positioned 7M from the side of the car... Not parked between two cop cars with the meter rammed up the tail pipe.

So i didnt pay the fine, and decided i'd take it to court and see where it went. Unsurprisingly, a letter dropped thru the door a few weeks after the fine was overdue, saying "on this occasion we have decided not to prosecute".

Fair enough but if you fit tyres that are not speed rated for the car and the tyres goes and you end up killing somone in that car. and the tyres are to blame . Even if you skidded too much and kill someone . You will go to jail for not having the right tyres on your car . Even more so if they are some stupidly agressive off road tyres . Which we all know are carp on the road , and even more so when it is wet

[western]

So what about them stupid half size spare wheels that are fitted in some cars. They are speed rated to something like 50mph.

So does that mean that if you fit your spare and are caught then you go to jail ???

The law must allow for this temporary wheel in some way.... and if it does, then why can't a defender run on 4 spare wheels with M/T's on em at a reduced speed of say 60mph ???

these space saver units are specifically marked with the safe speed that must not be exceed when it's fitted, it's a get you to a safe place/home method, not a full fix like a normal fullsize spare wheel.

no excuse not to examine your tyres weekly & check the pressure to, just that everybody forgets the tyre is the only thing keeping the vehicle in contact with the road.

I certainly wouldn't want to be a tyre on any vehicle, just think what conditions a tyre has to live through --- would you survive a life like that ????