istruggle2gate11 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Hi all, Im about to squirt a P38 4.6 lump, lifted straight from a salvage car. Anybody have the engine loom wiring diagram they could post up please? Also, anybody had experience of fitting a two wire extra air valve to these (unlike the 3.9's there is no steeper motor on the rear of the plenum, a stepper motor is fitted to the inlet trumpet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 This might help somebody oneday............. Rover 4.6 p38 on a "N" plate loom stripped to the requirements of MS: Injectors: Brown Orange +12v is split to feed all injectors. Cylinder 1 Yellow / Blue Cylinder 2 Yellow / white Cylinder 3 Yellow / black Cylinder 4 Yellow / brown Cylinder 5 Yellow / green Cylinder 6 Yellow / grey Cylinder 7 Yellow / red Cylinder 8 Yellow / pink TPS: Red Black +12v (splits off a main red black +12v) Red Yellow / green (thinner than injectors) Junior Timing Temp Wires Red / black +12v (splits of main red balck +12v) Thin Green Single Temp Probe Thicker Green Coil Packs (Rover type) White +12v White / yellow White / black White / pink White / blue (these join via a multi plug to Rover coil colours of blue, green, purple and orange.... I will edit the post when I know which one goes to which) Also, I removed all the other wiring from all sensors etc, the only ones to be added are for the oil light, starter trigger, alternator exciter and of course the VR sensor. If I left the rover wiring for the starter/alternator/knock sensors/fuel temp (or pressure?)/ trigger etc in place, the loom became rather clumsy quite quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Seems I have ran out of editing time above: EFi Loom to Coil pack wiring crossover colours via plug............ Coil Packs (Rover type)White +12v = Red White / black = Blue = Spark A = Cylinders 1 + 6 White / pink = Green = Spark B = Cylinders 5 + 8 White / yellow = Purple = Spark C = Cylinders 4 + 7 White / blue = Orange = Spark D = = Cylinders 2 + 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Mounting the trigger wheel............... Looking for the easy well all the time, I spoke to Chris at Trigger wheels asking if he had a "off the shelf" solution for the ø8" 4.6 serp pulley, sadly he did not, although he does have the bracket. He reported that a lot of people place the trigger wheel at the front and mount using the crank pully bolt = this idea I personally did not like at all. A little bit of measuring later, I realised that a 36-1 wheel could be fitted easily to the back of the pulley as their is enough "meat" to turn a locating diameter. So I purchased a ø146mm universal wheel. Turned the rear of the pulley to ø2" x 6mm deep, this created just enough of a shoulder to butt up against as well as giving locating diameter. Bored the trigger wheel to size -0.00 +0.15 - slipped on like a glove. Offered up the pulley and trigger wheel and marked accordingly, then drilled through the two existing holes and drilled two more, locking in place with 4 x m6 bolts with loctited nuts. For those doing this the first time, do not use as a tooth guide...... by the time this picture had been taken, the crank had been rotated to check for wheel run out using a DTI, and sods law dictated it is shown on the 5th tooth before the missing tooth, the wheel must be placed with the engine at TDC and the VR sensor pointing at the 5th tooth after the missing tooth on a edis8 setup when looking at the front of the engine. VR Sensor is off a 1994 Ford Some Pics: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Why don't you just use the OEM crank sensor ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-conversions Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Why don't you just use the OEM crank sensor ??? I don't think the OEM crank sensor will work with ford EDIS. I think its 36-1 that you need, but I may be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Ah, OK, hadn't realised you were using EDIS, you are right, EDIS doesn't have the f;exibility of MegaSquirt so can only cope with a 36-1 configuration. I guess the next question would be, why use EDIS when you can just plug the OEM crank sensor direct into Megasquirt ? I know there's a bit of an "EDIS fetish" on LR4x4 but I'd have thought that when an engine can run off the original sensors without EDIS it'd make more sense to run it that way than messing around reinventing the wheel (literally in this case ) It seems like you're doing a lot of extra work getting a toothed wheel to fit so that you can use an extra box that you don't need in the first place. Megasquirt is more than capable of driving the coil packs without EDIS and you also get the option of adding different coil packs (coil near plug, for example). I'm pretty sure there is a 4 wire stepper at the front of the engine for idle control which can be driven direct by MSII or via an additional board with MS1. I know the Thor engines use a different idle control valve but I think all the plenum chamber style engines have the 4 wire stepper somewhere, apart from the early flapper ones obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I see a lot of threads relating to people who are having lots of issues getting the direct ignition control to work properly so that may be one of the reasons to go EDIS. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 I see a lot of threads relating to people who are having lots of issues getting the direct ignition control to work properly so that may be one of the reasons to go EDIS.Steve Steve / Dave, I do understand people have had success with the coil pack drivers............... I went Megasquirt and Spark about 2½ years ago, now this is through my limited experience only but I will not go near the coil pack drivers ever again. I have converted 3 cars to megasquirt now, all Carb engines to EFi....and with edis, every one has started within 2 turns of the key. this is a copy of one of my replies to the Megasquirt A-Z saga thread Glenn,I have only scan read your problems, BUT I have been there and done that......... Over 2 years ago....... ask Fridgefreezer! (Tmobile enjoy coil pack driver problems!) Eventually I had it running on coil packs reasonably well (if you can tolerate andom resets all the time) but the fault finding never ever stopped, for example, I soon found out that during winching, if the battery levels dropped too far, one reset and a wait of about 30mins for the battery to come alive again. Sounds strange I know, unexplainable by all the MS guru's but it happened. I had the megasquirt box checked by multiple people, settings checked, double checked, triple checked and then checked again. I saw off two batteries, 3 starter motors a rover coil pack, 1 fuel pump and about 15 years worth of stress tolerance. In absolute need of my vehicle back off road I gave up, Fridge reverted my MSnS to MSnEdis and I HAVE NEVER LOOKED BACK I fitted edis, it started first turn of the key and has never faulted since. It has had over 24months of total off road abuse (my RR is not a pretty site, nor is it looked after!) Just a comment from experience, but bin the drivers and go Edis. Honestly, I did not give up and go to edis easily (although my wallet wished I had).... I had Fridgefreezer on the case, a full weekend with Phil Ringwood (extra efi creator) and a good few calls to Bill Shurvington. Everything was tried and tried again.................. Edis fitted, never faulted. It seems like you're doing a lot of extra work getting a toothed wheel to fit so that you can use an extra box that you don't need in the first place. Megasquirt is more than capable of driving the coil packs without EDIS and you also get the option of adding different coil packs (coil near plug, for example). The p38 lump is going onto a RR4speed manual, so I lose the flex plate which has the trigger teeth. One bonus of losing the rover sensor at the back of the block.................... a schreader tyre valve fits in there snugly..... on board air is being modified to give a switchable 15psi "dump" into the bell housing, axles etc for wading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Weird, I've done 3 V8s now with direct drive and about to do a fourth. This next one is using the new drivers rather than the VB921. Maybe it's the way I configure it as I always run logic levels to the engine and put the coil drivers in a small aluminium cast box in the engine bay with their own supply. I know a lot of people try and bolt the drivers inside the MS case and the one time i tried that I had problems with odd resets. I've had problems with MS in the past with the lack of screening in the loom and internally, maybe putting 4 coil drivers in the case is just overpowering the MS with stray interference. i even found that running the 4 spark outputs in screened cable inside the MS case reduced problems with false crank trigger signals. Anyway, all of that is a moot point if you're converting to manual and the tyre valve sounds like a good mod too, i remember having all sorts of problems with the clutch on my old manual after wading and leaving it in the drive for a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 Weird, I've done 3 V8s now with direct drive and about to do a fourth. This next one is using the new drivers rather than the VB921. Ahhh, that was one of the arguments of others to push me to Edis8....that the VB921's were now discontinued, I did not know replacements were available. Maybe it's the way I configure it as I always run logic levels to the engine and put the coil drivers in a small aluminium cast box in the engine bay with their own supply. I know a lot of people try and bolt the drivers inside the MS case and the one time i tried that I had problems with odd resets. I've had problems with MS in the past with the lack of screening in the loom and internally, maybe putting 4 coil drivers in the case is just overpowering the MS with stray interference. i even found that running the 4 spark outputs in screened cable inside the MS case reduced problems with false crank trigger signals. Interesting.......... Nobody commented on the drivers being in the MS box (which they were!) and false crank trigger signals were a massive problem for me. If I were to stand in honesty corner, I would much rather have the Squirt n Spark setup rather than Edis for the reasons you mentioned above [extra box, wiring, lack of flexibility etc] unfortunately I am not a electronics man at all, rather I pick off the bones of thers and learn enough to get me by. Edis8 offered a layman like me reasonable simplicity and almost out of the box working. Anyway, all of that is a moot point if you're converting to manual and the tyre valve sounds like a good mod too, i remember having all sorts of problems with the clutch on my old manual after wading and leaving it in the drive for a week Experimenting by proxy here Dave, its going in a mates Tomcat (replacing a GMC6.2v8 diesel ) I converted to auto a few years back, but currently arguing with myself on the new build........ HP24 with a HP22 valve block and lt230 transfer box or go for a mid mount using a 101fc gearbox I have sat doing nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 She bangs......After the rookie mistake of VR sensor being wired the wrong way around! So the above wiring is confirmed as good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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