110 utility conversion

[gilloverland]

Hi, I have just rebiult my 110 van into a 5 door station wagon but I want the rear panels without windows as per the new utility wagons - I know foley special vehicles sell ally panels that you rivet on but before I pay £95 + VAT and postage I was wondering if plain van panels from a 90 fit straight on?

[jbs]

Short wheel base series 3 side panels do fit, the 90 ones are too long, take a tape measure and find a series 3 and a 90 then you can make sure they'll fit by measuring the difference

[Gavin Hatton]

I have some Series II 88" Hard Top panels that are no longer needed, I'm looking for around £60 for the pair. They are both very straight and in good overall condition. I'm in the Leicester area for collection other wise they could be sent by courier at cost.

PM me if interested.

[headhunter]

You might wish to read the following regarding MOT regulations due to come into force in January 2010.

It's a change in where Utility 4x4 vehicles can have an MOT done (Class 4 - most cars etc. or Class 7 - utility/trucks etc.), depending on certain weight and other factors.

The information below is from Glencoyne Engineering (Thetford) - http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/motclass.htm

There is still some uncertainty as to what will be the MOT route for a first registered 110 Utility subsequently converted into a CSW or equivalent.

My 110 has undergone a similar conversion. The main issue is revenue weight, mine is 3050kg on the plate though not noted in the V5C.

A original CSW's revenue weight is 2950kg thus is below the new weight class of 3000kg.

This difference stems from the original load capacity between a Utility and CSW where the Utility has H/D suspension and the CSW a self-levelling unit.

You would think that such a change in legislation would be for new production rather than being retrospective, however since when has common sense been an attribute of this government.

Here's the Glencoyne Info -

Land Rover MoT Information

Updated 26/7/09 - note that the dual purpose exemption is to be withdrawn at the end of 2009.

(Disclaimer: I do not work for DVLA, VOSA or any other Government agency. The information on this page has been gathered from a variety of official and unofficial sources. I have done my best to verify it, but offer no assurance as to its accuracy.)

The introduction of the new computerised system for MoT testing has thrown up a problem which, it appears, affects the vast majority of commercial Land Rovers (but not Station Wagons). I just took a 1963 2A 109 petrol to my local MOT station. They now have the new computerised testing system which they did not have last time. They input the chassis number into the system and then informed me that they could not carry out the MOT.

Reason given was that the vehicle has a revenue weight of 3499kg gross, and must therefore undergo a class 7 MOT test (commercial vehicles 3000 - 3499kg GRW) which most MOT stations are not equipped for. I was given a computerised printout which showed the reason for rejection as 'Vehicle details entered incorrectly at test registration - wrong class vehicle'.

Sure enough, the V5C (registration certificate) states revenue weight of 3499kg gross. I thought this might be a one-off error: with a 2A weighing about 1800kg empty, if you load it up to 3499kg the chassis will probably bend in the middle. But then I checked the V5s for seven other commercial bodied Land Rovers that I have at the moment, and found that five of them have a revenue weight of 3499kg - these vehicles ranging from a 1959 Series 2 88 inch to a Defender 90. (Note that if you have a genuine factory Station Wagon, a Range Rover or Discovery, it should show the body type as 'Estate' and there will be no revenue weight. In this case this particular problem does not apply to you.)

Now the 'revenue weight' should be the maximum gross laden weight (GLW) as given by the manufacturer, and a figure of 3499kg, for most Land Rovers, is just plain wrong. It looks as though DVLA have been using 3499kg as the default revenue weight on Land Rover V5s for a very long time. Apart from the shortage of class 7 testing stations, the test costs more than a class 4 test. So I did a bit more research.

First I rang up DVLA, who told me that to change the revenue weight on the V5C is simple - you just enter the correct weight in box 22, the date of change in box 23, sign and date the V5C and send it to Swansea. You will get an amended V5C back. What is the 'correct weight'? If your Land Rover was made after 1979 it should have a VIN plate looking like this:

The first figure (2710kg in this case) is the GLW, which you should use as the revenue weight. For Series 3 before 1979, the GLW is given in the handbook as 2120kg for 88 inch vehicles, 2710kg for 109 inch (except the very rare One Ton model). I do not have figures for earlier vehicles.

So if you send your logbook away in plenty of time before the next MoT is due, and get the revenue weight changed to something less than 3000kg, there is no problem, your vehicle will definitely be tested as class 4, just like a car. But that doesn't help you if you have a 110 or 130 (GLW over 3000kg) or your MoT is imminent.

So I rang VOSA (the people who oversee MoTs) to clarify the situation. This is what they told me:

If a vehicle has a GLW under 3500kg, an unladen weight under 2040kg, has four wheel drive and is equipped to carry one or more passengers (including the front seats) then it is a 'dual purpose' vehicle for MoT purposes and should be tested as class 4. As far as I can tell, the only commercial Land Rovers which do not meet these criteria are the big 127/130 vehicles, and possibly the Series 2 forward controls. (But the dual purpose exemption is to be withdrawn shortly - see below.)

I have since had this confirmed in writing. VOSA sent me an extract from the 6th edition MOT Testing Guide, as follows:

Dual purpose vehicles 3. A `Dual purpose vehicle' is one that is constructed or adapted for the carriage of both passenger(s) and goods or burden of any description; and has an unladen weight (ULW) not exceeding 2,040 kg; and which either:

(a) is so constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine, is, or by the use of the appropriate controls can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or

(b) satisfies the following conditions as to construction: (i) is permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel; (ii) the area to the rear of the driver's seat must: · be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers, and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered backrests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and · be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an aggregate area of not less than 1,850cm2 on each side and not less than 770cm2 at the rear; (iii) the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the backrests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in the first paragraph of item (b) (ii) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the backrests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.

Almost all Land Rovers are covered by section (a) above. If you have a 130 crew cab, you may find the ULW is over 2040kg, but you should still be able to get the vehicle tested Class 4 under section (b) above, as a crew cab has permanent transverse seats and side windows.

So if a tester tells you your Landie needs to be tested class 7, you can now quote the 6th edition MOT testing guide at him chapter and verse.

BUT: the dual purpose exemption is to be withdrawn at the end of 2009. From the start of 2010, if a vehicle has a recorded GLW of 3000kg or greater, it WILL be subject to class VII test with no exemptions. If you own a 110 without self-levelling suspension, a 130 or a Forward Control, you will just have to live with this and find yourself a Class VII MoT station. For everyone else, if the revenue weight on your V5 is wrong, get it changed now.

One other thing you need to be aware of - the new system allows the tester to check details such as engine size, fuel type, vehicle colour etc against the DVLA database. I do not know whether you will be refused an MoT if you have changed the colour of your vehicle, or fitted a different engine, and not notified DVLA, but I think it is quite likely that you will. So get out your V5C now, and make sure all the main details in section 4 are correct, especially:

Revenue weight

Cylinder capacity (cc) (this field is often blank on older Land Rovers, if so then leave it that way)

Type of fuel

Colour

And if your chassis plate has gone missing, get another one made up. For vehicles first used on or after 1st August 1980, the VIN number (chassis number) must be displayed on the vehicle. Land Rovers had the number stamped on a plate (Click here for more info) and also stamped into the right hand front chassis leg, but the latter may have been replaced or patched over on older vehicles, and if you have no VIN on the vehicle, the tester can and will refuse to test it. Even a pre-1980 vehicle with no chassis plate may lead to major grief at MoT time, although the tester cannot strictly refuse to test it.

[PaulMc]

... You would think that such a change in legislation would be for new production rather than being retrospective, however since when has common sense been an attribute of this government.

Same as the retrospective change of a vehicle's Road Tax band based on it's CO₂ emissions

They're not so happy when rule changes are applied retrospectively to them -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8312916.stm

.

[hobson]

It's an easy conversion to do, there's someone on here who's name escapes me who did the same, it was a red 110, i've also done it with our 110, but rather than forking out money on specialist panels i got some sheet ally and bent the edges to fit, cost me 10 quid and some rivets!

*Edited*

Pathfinder did it, search in tools and fab or look at his threads

HTH

[tweetyduck]

Someone recently told me that if you plan on overlanding with a converted utility and it looks like a station waggon you may get issues at customs in some countries as the V5 doesn't refer to what your vehicle looks like. The fact that all the numbers match seems to be irrelevent as they look at 5 doors and see a utility on the V5 that should have 3. Not sure if its applicable to you but knowledge is power and all that. TA.

This info came from a very seasoned overlander and seems to be based on and experience he had in the African countries. He actully honestly refused to sell me the vehicle for that reason as he didn't want me to be lumbered with it knowing what I am planning on doing. He runs a specialist garage in the Midlands. Nice bloke.

[bishbosh]

But surely when you add the extra doors you write to the nice people at the DVLA and update your V5, don't you..... ?

[hobson]

I'd not heard of anything like that, i've had no issues at all with mine.

it started out as a 9 seat 5 door CSW, and is now a different coloured 2 seat, 5 door utility.

i made the ammendments on the v5 and even wrote a cover letter to the DVLA explaining exactly what we had done, the only thing they were even remotely bothered about was that they couldn't use the colour 'Desert Sand' as they only use a list of pre-arranged colours and we were told to choose the one that closest matches ours, so it is now cream on the V5!

the insurance were the same, had no issues at all, as all the fittings and seating needed for the driver and passenger were all there and the removal of rear seats and windows is not structural on a Defender.

i can't see why an MOT tester would bother as long as everything is removed and done properly and the details on the V5 match the vehicle, MOT is mainly about safety. as long as everything needed for the law in the year of manufacture is there and working it should be fine.

Tax shouldn't be an issue either as the vehicle engine, chassis, weight etc will be the same (maybe even a bit lighter?)

and tax class changes on vehicles normally only apply to new vehicles, not retrospectively.

I think modifying new vehicles is a lot more complicated than modding old ones....

[gilloverland]

Thanks for the replies.

As far as Im aware the MOT will stay class 4 based on the age of the vehicle (1985) The revenue weight wont change, it will stay at 3050kg as per the vin number for the chassis, all Im technicly doing is adding two doors and three seats.

[gilloverland]

Just a quick thought - to any of you that have a factory 110 CSW, what does the V5 say for body type - my series 3 says 2 axle rigid body, cant remember off hand what the 110 says as Im at work at the moment. If the 3 door is the same as the CSW or perhaps same as a plain SW then why change the v5 at all?

I think as long as its insured as a 5 door (which it is) but used and looks like a utility (which it will because the van panels at the very back) then I should be ok... shouldn't I?

[western]

Mine says at D3 Body type --- Estate

[hobson]

Ours V5 says:

body type: light 4x4 utility

wheelplan: 2 axle rigid body

there's no mention of any door numbers and the seat number can be changed by the DVLA anyway. the only issue i can see is making sure all the seats and belts are installed properly so it passes the MOT.

have you got all the bits? i've got some seats for sale...!

[reb78]

Before you change anything, consider this. It seems that those with Estate on the logbook are LEZ exempt - unlike those with light 4x4 utility.. Might not be an issue if you dont live near london, but may be an issue to those who are closer..

[West4x4]

I've a utility backd motor that is registered as a diesel car, so it goes through an MoT as a car is taxed as a car and is not LEZ affected as it is a car. All the guy is doing is replacing the rear windows with ally not making it into a pick up or full hard top. And yes you want series hard panels not 90 ones

[rickdulas]

Hi,

I'm going to do the same to mine and I wondered if there were any problems you encountered with the swap, different chassis mounts etc.,or is it a straight swap. Any info you could pass on would be a great help as would be any pics.

Thanks

Rick

[western]

just change the rear side windows panels for solid 88inch Series short wheelbase panels, no chassis mods are needed.

[rickdulas]

Sorry, should have made that a bit clearer. I want to change a hard top van into a safari. Any tips??

Thanks

Rick

[gilloverland]

Sorry, should have made that a bit clearer. I want to change a hard top van into a safari. Any tips??

Thanks

Rick

When I did mine the body came from a 110 that had had a front end smash, the rear body, complete with roof was delivered still attached to the rear half of the chassis which had been cut in half. This gave me the extra x-member and also the correct outrigger-to-body brackets.

Top tips - when lowering the body, make sure you dont trap the fuel lines and and electrical wiring running along the the top of the chassis rail.

Also make sure the ally body is in good condition, a lot of the corrosion I didnt see until it was too late (hidden by carpet) - notably where the seat brackets mount through the ally.

Other than that its nuts and bolts and a couple of dry days (I kept the body complete with roof and lowered it down in one peice (took me plus 4 mates!)

Wish you well in your conversion...

[tweetyduck]

Sorry to re-open this old thread.

Whats the big deal of a class VII MOT. Its not much more expensive.

• Is there some other issue i'm missing?
  

Mine is on the V5C as 3499kg (obviously wrong for a 110CSW). Need to check the plate in the Engine Bay but don;t have the 110 to hand at the moment.

• Is this an issue for anything other than slightly dearer £57.50 MOT ?
  
• Should I care?
  
• Will this (i.e. 3499kg) cause issues with Tolls, Ferries etc when on my trip?
  

Sorry lots of questions.....TA

[western]

Sorry to re-open this old thread.

Whats the big deal of a class VII MOT. Its not much more expensive.

• Is there some other issue i'm missing?
  

Mine is on the V5C as 3499kg (obviously wrong for a 110CSW). Need to check the plate in the Engine Bay but don;t have the 110 to hand at the moment.

• Is this an issue for anything other than slightly dearer £57.50 MOT ?
  
• Should I care?
  
• Will this (i.e. 3499kg) cause issues with Tolls, Ferries etc when on my trip?
  

Sorry lots of questions.....TA

Not all 110CSW are what they appear, some are standard 110 station wagons with the 'County' trim pack added, yours maybe one of these without the Boge self levelling unit fitted,

[tweetyduck]

So the VIN "M" is Station Waggon and I'm not assured its a County. No letter for county then.

any way to be sure? any tell tail indicators?

[western]

So the VIN "M" is Station Waggon and I'm not assured its a County. No letter for county then.

any way to be sure? any tell tail indicators?

County SW's should have

full carpets NOT rubber floor covering

Glass sunroof

Cloth seat facings

most had side stripes in various styles, a 300Tdi county would have these [see photo below]

300Tdi county should have body colour flexi arches

black front grille/headlight surrounds

there is No letter/number in the VIN to state if it's a County model.

300tdi vehicles should have the interior light above the rear view interior mirror too, not where yours is behind the front seats.

[tweetyduck]

Thanks Western (or is it Ralph)

I have some old Photos. Its looks like one outside (i suppose) from what you said but might not be. Also has the light.

See attached. I have more if you want more?

[western]

Definitly looks to be a genuine factory built CountySW to me