Converting to rear discs on a 110

[Adam001]

Hey,

had a good look at the guide and a few other threads around the net, but haven't found anything completely conclusive.

I have a 1988 110 with rear drums and also have a spares 1990 RR Vogue.

Some places say you need a 6mm spacer on the bracket, some say to use different calipers, i'm confused! and the stub axle and hub information seems to change depending where you look.

I was intending to fit 110 calipers to keep things correct so I need the other hardware to make it all work, which bits do I actually need? Can I use anything off the RR?

I believe I need STC1268 and 9 (110 Calipers) and FTC3306 (bracket), but i'm at a loss for any spacers, which hubs, stubs, shafts etc

Any help would be fantastic!

Adam

[FFR]

Hey,

had a good look at the guide and a few other threads around the net, but haven't found anything completely conclusive.

Hi Adam,

I'll tell you my life in a few sentences: I have drums on rear, so I bought a late td5 rear axle with discs. Calipers are hold in place by a bracket wich is soldered to the axle case. I noticed a strange play in the diferential, so I removed the rear cover... COMPLETELY DRY.

Satellites have a huge play due to the lack of oil, so I can not use this thing. I do not want to transfer the diferential from the old axle to the new one, as this exceeds by far my capability/knowledge. What I plan to do instead is to upgrade the old axle using the 3306 brackets and all the td5 stuff. If it works (I feel it will do) I can send you some photos, part numbers and measurements.

Carlos

[Retroanaconda]

Adam, to make life simple what you want is:

• 110 Rear Calipers and Discs (same as later 90/110 front discs)
• 300Tdi stub axles
• 300Tdi hubs
• 300Tdi drive members
• 300Tdi half-shafts.
• The caliper brackets

This should all bolt up fine. The need to use a spacer arises from the use of 200Tdi (or earlier) stub axles and front hubs. Have a look at the image below and you can see why:

200Tdi stub axle on the left, 300Tdi on the right. Notice the integral spacer on the 300Tdi one. This moved the whole hub out slightly, but due to the fact that they're thinner (look at the bearing witness marks) the outside of the hub remains in about the same space. Hence the need for the spacer if using the earlier setup, because the inner hub face, and therefore disc, is about 6mm further inboard than on a 300Tdi setup. Space the caliper bracket inboard a bit and bob's your uncle, it should line up

Easier to use 300Tdi bits though. That's what mine is, except for the weird 200Tdi drive members with 300Tdi hubs situation that mine has, which no-one can explain

Hope that helps

James

[Marco]

I've used pre 300Tdi parts on my disc brake conversion, the Diesel Jim method.

The only new parts needed are the brackets (genuine LR), two front hubs (pre 300Tdi), two calipers, two discs, pads, some bolts and the DIY 6mm spacer. I've used the drum brake stub axles and drive shafts of the old axle.

I rate it as one of the best and easiest conversions available. Have some extra brackets shelved and will build another axle some time in future.

Cheers

Marco

[Somethingwitty]

I've used pre 300Tdi parts on my disc brake conversion, the Diesel Jim method.

The only new parts needed are the brackets (genuine LR), two front hubs (pre 300Tdi), two calipers, two discs, pads, some bolts and the DIY 6mm spacer. I've used the drum brake stub axles and drive shafts of the old axle.

I rate it as one of the best and easiest conversions available. Have some extra brackets shelved and will build another axle some time in future.

Cheers

Marco

I'll second this - brackets are only £15 genuine a side, forget callipers but use the 110 ones as discussed. I have kept my original stubs and half shafts and thus used EARLY 110 front hubs (to retain the wide bearing spaceing). Spacers I made from 2 x 3mm chassis plate by hand - bit of hard work but not too long. Ensure you dress the edges well so they sit flat on one another. Works a treat.

I see no reason, unless your existing shafts, stubs etc are tired, to replace that lot, it works, leave it be. (also I think the earlier wide spaced bearings and deeper drive member splines can only be a good thing)

[Somethingwitty]

Easier to use 300Tdi bits though. That's what mine is, except for the weird 200Tdi drive members with 300Tdi hubs situation that mine has, which no-one can explain

Are your shafts the same length from 200 tdi flange back to diff end? Can't see any problems except the possibility that they are not fully engaged in the diff... although I guess 200 flanges don't fit 300 shafts?

[PaulMc]

This thread (by Diesel Jim) in the Technical Archive is good reading -

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=11685

.

[Retroanaconda]

Are your shafts the same length from 200 tdi flange back to diff end? Can't see any problems except the possibility that they are not fully engaged in the diff... although I guess 200 flanges don't fit 300 shafts?

I don't know, my shafts are standard drum-braked ones, and the drive member is 200Tdi (or at least looks like one), but the hub and stub axle are 300Tdi.

Was discussed in this thread. I am going to replace the shafts and drive members with 300Tdi items anyway, as I want to fit alloys in the future.

[Adam001]

Thank you for the replies, this explains alot of confusion

I'll put up a wanted ad for the hubs

Adam

[V8 Freak]

This thread (by Diesel Jim) in the Technical Archive is good reading -

http://forums.lr4x4....showtopic=11685

.

That axle is still working very well under my truck !!!

Neil

[Adam001]

Oh, pre-300tdi front hubs, are they the same as range rover of discovery front hubs of similar ages? I have a set of 1990 discovery

swivels outside you see.

I should probably ask if the brake pressure reducing valve needs changing too?

Adam

[Bush65]

Hey,

had a good look at the guide and a few other threads around the net, but haven't found anything completely conclusive.

I have a 1988 110 with rear drums and also have a spares 1990 RR Vogue.

Some places say you need a 6mm spacer on the bracket, some say to use different calipers, i'm confused! and the stub axle and hub information seems to change depending where you look.

I was intending to fit 110 calipers to keep things correct so I need the other hardware to make it all work, which bits do I actually need? Can I use anything off the RR?

I believe I need STC1268 and 9 (110 Calipers) and FTC3306 (bracket), but i'm at a loss for any spacers, which hubs, stubs, shafts etc

Any help would be fantastic!

Adam

I found the information that has been given is conclusive. What you have to realise is that Land Rover have made changes between models and years that has resulted in different experiences depending upon how various parts are exchanged and different mixes will require their own adjustment to come together properly.

I converted the rear drum brakes to discs on my 1987 110. Because my vehicle can be expected to carry some heavy loads, I didn't change the rear axle, or replace spindles and hubs with something inferior (MHO) with closer spaced wheel bearings. I used the Diesel Jim method and my experience is in line with what Marco posted above. IMHO this is the best and easiest way - the problem is getting a pair of 110 front hubs from the right range of years.

When you start mixing later hubs, rotors, spindles/stub axles, then expect to have a different experience.

[Marco]

- the problem is getting a pair of 110 front hubs from the right range of years.

Hubs are available new.... e.g. Paddock Spares GBP 46.25 ex vat

That's probably Britpart but as it's a low tech piece of steel it could be OK.

I've been lucky to dismantle a complete 200Tdi 110 CSW... reusing all bits

Cheers

Marco

[Adam001]

yeah I saw the paddocks hubs, expecting them to be britpart Don't want my wheel falling off haha

Would rather something second hand if it means staying genuine

Does this mean that the disco and range rover front hubs are useless?

[Aragorn]

I've started this myself, although i've not quite finished it as i need to order the bearings and brake disks.

I didnt fancy the spacer method, so i baught some 300TDi spec stub axles and caliper brackets. I also picked up some 300tdi hubs (front and rear hubs are the same on a 300tdi, which is handy)

The caliper brackets are £35 each, not £15 as stated above.

As retroanaconda has pointed out, the shafts should end up more or less the same length. I plan to use the drum shafts with a 300tdi drive flange, but i'll be carefully checking once the hubs are on to ensure i'm getting decent spline engagement.

I suspect the main difference between the drum and disk shafts, is the disk shafts have a machined surface on them for the stub axle oil seal to run on, whereas the drum shafts dont as the drum braked bearings were oil lubricated. I've left the oil seals out of my stub axles anyway, so that wont be an issue for me. The drum shafts may be slightly longer, but one of the splines is quite a bit longer than it needs to be, so if need be i can cut the shafts down.

I'll sort out a thread to summarise all the details once i get everything bolted up.

[Bush65]

Hubs are available new.... e.g. Paddock Spares GBP 46.25 ex vat

That's probably Britpart but as it's a low tech piece of steel it could be OK.

I've been lucky to dismantle a complete 200Tdi 110 CSW... reusing all bits

Cheers

Marco

Thanks Marco, my earlier response was clouded by my experiences here (Aus) where availability and cost of parts is much different to the UK.

[Retroanaconda]

yeah I saw the paddocks hubs, expecting them to be britpart Don't want my wheel falling off haha

Would rather something second hand if it means staying genuine

Does this mean that the disco and range rover front hubs are useless?

If it's not urgent Adam I will have both front hubs from my 200Tdi 110 spare when I get around to playing with the axles. Can't say when it will be though, some time before xmas hopefully.

[Bush65]

yeah I saw the paddocks hubs, expecting them to be britpart Don't want my wheel falling off haha

Would rather something second hand if it means staying genuine

Does this mean that the disco and range rover front hubs are useless?

Disco and your RR front hubs can be used, but they are not directly interchangeable with the original 110 hubs.

The hubs are narrower than those used on the 110, the wheel bearings are closer together (not as good IMHO) so the need for different stub axles/spindles and spacers to make up for the hub/disc being in a different position. Your original half shafts will be too long with the narrow hubs.

You have to weigh up a lot of issues. If the original stub axles/spindles are worn and need replacing then the cost to replace them with those for a late Salisbury is not the same as replacing original in good condition, just for the privilege to use hubs with inferior wheel bearings and paying extra to replace the half shafts with compatible half shafts.

As you have seen, many people have done the conversion in different ways, because they utilise various parts from other models that they have laying about or someone donates.

IMHO Land Rover have not always made changes for the better as new models were introduced. They have improved some areas while depreciating others, and the stub axle/spindle, hubs, wheel bearings and seal assembly are one example where the 110 was at the pinnacle.

[Adam001]

I may have a friend with a td5 axle that I can steal to convert mine, just need to find out if it has the soldered/welded brackets, if it does is it just a simple case of bolting a set of brackets on instead?

How much should I expect to pay for the axle minus the casing and diff? Trying to determine a fair price.

Cheers

Adam

[Aragorn]

I'm not really sure how you can buy an Axle without the casing??

AFAIK, if its welded on brackets, then its a rover axle, not a salisbury.

The stuff up there ^ is about converting a salisbury axle to disks. TD5 110's changed from salisbury to a heavy duty rover unit in 2002 iirc. You wont be able to fit your existing diff into the 2002> casing, as they're completely different.

A Disk braked salisbury axle seems to go for somewhere around £200. The 2002> HD rover axle will probably sell for more, as they're newer/rarer.

[Adam001]

I just meant as in everything on the axle but the diff/casing. It is a salisbury unit, just wanted to check on the bracket.

Adam

[Adam001]

Got myself the following all from a TD5 110

Calipers

Stub axles

Hubs

TD5 wheel bearings and 'updated' hub nut set-up (will convert to the older spec I think)

Half shafts and flanges

The calipers brackets were part of the axle casing, so just to check, doing this conversion will simply be a case now of buying the brackets and the jobs a good'un?

Adam

[Bush65]

Got myself the following all from a TD5 110

Calipers

Stub axles

Hubs

TD5 wheel bearings and 'updated' hub nut set-up (will convert to the older spec I think)

Half shafts and flanges

The calipers brackets were part of the axle casing, so just to check, doing this conversion will simply be a case now of buying the brackets and the jobs a good'un?

Adam

I'm not sure of the depth/offset of TD5 Salisbury axled disc rotors, but you might find that you need to machine some material from the brackets (if the depth/offset is less) or make a spacer for the brackets (if the depth/offset is greater) to centre the calipers relative to the disc rotor.

[Adam001]

Bugger, was really hoping on a bolt on job

[Aragorn]

Ok looking at Microcat,

The TD5 used a salisbury until 2002, and by the looks of it they had integrated caliper brackets as you've suggested.

They also used the same calipers as the TDi, right up to 2002, however the disks seem to be different.

From what i can tell, the TD5 rear disks have less of an offset on them compared with TDi ones, however looking at the part numbers, and the fact the same caliper is used right up to 2002, i can only guess that the shallower disks are there to work with the welded on brackets.

As such, if you used the bolt on brackets, you should only have to change the disks to the earlier type (which are infact the same as a normal unvented front disk) and it should all bolt together.