simonr Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 This was just an experiment to see if it works - it's not a product! A few people have talked about a twin motor conversion for a TDs winch and wondered if the planetary box is strong enough - or for that matter the thin rod which connects the motors to the gearbox. So, I thought I would try it! I set off my CNC mill last weekend - and it spat out this: The gearbox was deliberately made to be the 'wrong way round' so that the motor sticks out forward rather than through my grille. A winch made like this would end up using the front motor as a bumper! As it was just an experiment to see if I could bust the TDs and it was not going to be a permanent fixture, this didn't matter. I guess this configuration would work OK 'lying down' as a rear winch? The gear ratio of the winch has been increased from 173:1 to 110:1 (50% increase) - figuring that a TDs produces plenty of torque but is pretty slow, so use the combined power of the motors for speed more than to increase the pulling power. I figured that if it's safe to run a 12v TDs on 24v without it spitting teeth out - this would be OK too. Not sure about twin motor and 24v though! The winch now manages about 75 feet per minute with no load using Warn X50 motors. With Bowmotor2's which run 25% faster - that would give about 90 f/min. The additional motor also increases the theoretical pull of a 9.5 winch from 9500lbs to 14500lbs (not double as the ratio is higher) which is fairly respectable. Anyway, by the time I'd built this, it was clear it was never going to be a viable product - just too complicated and probably too expensive (the housing alone would have to be at least £400). But - as often happens - while I was building it I had a potentially much better idea for how to achieve the same thing in a package that you could make for half that! Watch this space - it's the next job on the mill! I also made this: Which is an entirely electric freespool - no compressed air required. Because of the way it works internally, you have to use it slightly differently to a pneumatic spool - but it seemed to work OK. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Excellent! So did you break the main shaft? Did you go with a sprag clutch in the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 Excellent! So did you break the main shaft? Did you go with a sprag clutch in the end? No and No! The idea of this was just a "simple" strength test. That bar through the middle is made of tough stuff! I suspect it's EN24 or EN36 which would make it way stronger than is needed for 4 let alone 2 motors! Did you end up building your idea? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 very nice.. and it would probably fit a supperwinch ep9 as well... did you make you own gears? would love to see it with the end plate off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 did you make you own gears? No, actually, eBay made them! would love to see it with the end plate off. OK, here it is.... I replaced the Nylon drum bearing with phosphor bronze which you can see in the middle inside the drum end seal. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Did you end up building your idea? Some of us don't have CNC mills Simon! (unfortunately!) My idea has remained on paper. Feel free to develop it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Very nice Si, and very jealous of your abilities.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Impressive, nothing less! It's kinda like a Hi-mont/ low-line Hybrid, really like it. But although you say the price would be too high, compare it to the GP tophousing, and even more important the winch itself in bulk form is MUCH cheaper. So all in all it would add up quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Simon, I'd love to read more on how your electric free-spool works, It doesn't look so difficult to make, but Im guessing you need to use 12volts to move the freespool then 6 (im guessing) to hold it, and it springs back into position when at 0volts. I wish i had a CNC lathe and phosphor bronze in my workshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 Thanks chaps! Simon, I'd love to read more on how your electric free-spool works, It doesn't look so difficult to make, but Im guessing you need to use 12volts to move the freespool then 6 (im guessing) to hold it, and it springs back into position when at 0volts. Actually, it's a bit more cunning than that! The pin has a Neodymium magnet attached and it is fired in and out depending on the direction of current through the coil (one way the magnet is attracted, the other way it is repelled). There is no spring as the magnet sticks (strongly) to it's end-stop in either direction. This means you only have to apply a pulse of current to engage or disengage - the rest of the time there is no current flowing and the freespool stays in whatever position it was in before. I wish i had a CNC lathe and phosphor bronze in my workshop It sounds more impressive than it is! Because they require more knowledge to get running, they are often cheaper than a similar sized manual machine. I've had this lump of Phosphor Bronze sitting under my bench for about 10 years! It was the perfect size - so that must have been what I bought it for! It came from a company called college metals at one of the model engineering exhibitions. They are fab for buying small offcuts of expensive metals. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Hi Simon - slightly off topic, but did you ever progress your 3D printer any further? I was talking to someone who was also watching that thread with interest the other day Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 I was having extruder problems - then business became a bit busy and have not touched it for a couple of months! I know how to solve the problem - so it's just a case of getting round to it! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Actually, it's a bit more cunning than that! The pin has a Neodymium magnet attached and it is fired in and out depending on the direction of current through the coil (one way the magnet is attracted, the other way it is repelled). There is no spring as the magnet sticks (strongly) to it's end-stop in either direction. This means you only have to apply a pulse of current to engage or disengage - the rest of the time there is no current flowing and the freespool stays in whatever position it was in before. That is rather cunning! More complex that i had hoped for, but non the less a brilliant idea that could be suited to any winch freespool... You should make a 8274 freespool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 You should make a 8274 freespool A bit like This joint Project Between X-eng and Delta-tek? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 I was thinking a electric one, like the one in Si's first post actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 You should make a 8274 freespool I originally thought of it as an alternative way to engage and disengage a difflock that works like a KAM locker. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 Right! I've started fabricating my 'better idea' this weekend - and it does indeed appear to hold water (not literally!). Since this incarnation has reached the end of what I want to do with it (I only started it two weeks ago!) - I wondered if one of you lot would like to pick up the project? So, what I'm offering is the twin motor housing with all the internals but not the motors nor winch. I'm offering it for free! I want it to go to someone who has a little fabrication experience or facilities to turn it in to something useful. To complete, it needs an outer cover to hide and seal the three bearings, a squirt of instant gasket between the two halves, fill and drain holes for oil - and a bit of oil inside to keep it happy. Without an outer cover, it will fill up with water! It could really do with dismantling and the Aluminium parts being Anodized and the Steel parts electroplated. I would like to see it being developed and used. I would not like to see it on eBay nor it's internals exposed on line for at least 12 months - and I will require the recipient to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement to that effect. Email me via X-Eng with a proposal (any posted on here will be ignored!). Feel free to post this on other forums. It is not first come first served, it is first that I like the sound of. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Simon............. have you thought about asking David Bowyer..??? he might be willing to 'buy' the idea!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 and I will require the recipient to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement to that effect. Email me via X-Eng with a proposal (any posted on here will be ignored!). Feel free to post this on other forums. It is not first come first served, it is first that I like the sound of. Si What a great approach! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 27, 2010 Author Share Posted October 27, 2010 Simon............. have you thought about asking David Bowyer..??? he might be willing to 'buy' the idea!! David & I have had a chat about the idea. I doubt he'd be in the queue to buy the idea as he has plenty of cool ideas of his own! First things first - I need to build the Mk2 and see if it works! I'll post piccies of it in the flesh here first. I'm quite excited about the new idea - it ticks a lot more boxes and opens up more possibilities than this one. However, I'd never have thought of it without going through this step. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 27, 2010 Author Share Posted October 27, 2010 Thank you for all the emails offering help. I've picked one of you - and there should be a box in the post soon. I think I've replied to everyone - there were quite a lot. Please accept my apologies If I've missed you. The 'lucky' winner wants to do a bit of experimentation himself - but didn't have the facilities to make an adapter to try his idea. I did ask him to pass it on to someone else for free once he's finished with it! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete300tdi90 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Si, What was it like compared to a 24V version, any ideas? I would love a twin motor 8274, but im only a poor student so looking for other ways to increase the power and speed of my 9000lbs champion winch. you idea looked spot on, but other people say about making it a 24v... have you (or anyone) had any experience playing about like this? any and all help would be grand. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange90-J- Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 this looks awesome... hope this goes into production. mine will have this if it does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share Posted November 30, 2010 What was it like compared to a 24V version, any ideas? 24v is the simplest option - and certainly the best in terms of bang / buck. David Bowyer has a 'Turbo' thingy which normally leaves two batteries in parallel with both being charged, but on demand connects them in series with the Alternator charging one of them. This is pretty good value IMHO and gives close to the performace of 24v without the need for a 24v / 2nd Alternator. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete300tdi90 Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 phone number/email for him? Very interested as have now bought an 8274 but with a 24V motor... cheers, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.