olliebradley Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi, I am due to fit some stronger lamps and upgrade generally the headlamps in my 1986 90, however i have realised that aside from the loom being bloody old the new lamps are more powerful and i would like to fit some relays, one for dipped and one for main beam. i am fairly competent with electrics but relays are a new area so could i get some advice on how to wire them etc. With my current understanding i think i need to wire the 12V feed (blue & white for dipped) and the headlight output into the switched circuit (30 & 87 on diagram)but what do i feed to the switch circuit? (85 & 86) i would like to retain the current fuses and i will try to mount the relays close to the fuse box. a circuit diagram would be awesome, any advice is also appreciated thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyna VT Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi, I think you've got your terminals and inputs muddled up for what you want to do. The high beam/dip beam voltage will go to terminal 85 (terminal 86 goes to earth) which when 12 volts are applied, this energises the coil in the relay and closes the contact between terminals 30 and 87. So, in normal use you would take a fused supply from your battery, connect to terminal 30 then run cables to your bulbs from terminal 87. The idea of using a relay is to use the existing wiring to simply operate the relays which requires very low current. I will draw you a circuit diagram when I get home from work. As I understand it you want to replace the existing headlamp wiring with new wiring and perhaps even a new headlamp plug? All these bits are easily available. I would suggest you use two 5 blade twin contact relays, one relay for dip, one for full beam and each relay has two terminals for the load, one for the left hand side, the other for the right. I'll check back in later. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doda456 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=15502&hl=headlight+relay will help loads as thats what i used to add relays to my disco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hey and welcome to the forum, here's your blessing of fire... I have done somthing similar to my 86 LR90. My vehicle was pretty much stripped down when I did it which made wire routing somewhat easier, but its still possible to do it when built up. I put in a total new light circuit with an auxilary circuit too for any bullbar lamps, left the old wireing in, just in case it was needed at another date. I mounted a bank of relays behind the instrument panel and took the relay switch signal of a spur off the headlight switches directly. The power for the relays, I made up some new wiring that I have coming off a new junction box/fusebox I installed behind the passanger seat (attached to the rear bulkhead) So the new power supply goes out the rear battery box, through a hole in the box section behind it, into the cab (new fuse box) then back down the hole through/under the gearbox tunnel, up the front of the bulkhead then through thr driver side penetration to the relays. So the lighting circuit as it is now, has 2 sets of fuses, the relay control circuit (orginal wireing and fuse) and the main lighting power driven from my new fuse box. With regard to your relay wireing. You need 2 relays, one for dip, one for high. you want to wire up your 12v feed to pin 85 and earth 86, then you need a new power supply (nice new bit of wire) to pin 30 and pin 87 goes to your light, (via a new bit of wire). I opted for a totally new supply wiring as I didn't trust getting any other supply from the loom as it is. Now I have a wire diagram of sorts that I used but its not exactly to a standard, its more a mixture of picture parts... I hope I haven't confused you more. Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 When I get round to doing this, I'm going to go down the route of the plug in loom that ARB make. It might be relatively expensive, but saves a load of hassle as I really dont like wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyna VT Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Back again...! I have added a wiring diagram below as I understand it you want to upgrade exisiting headlights, not simply fit a pair of spot lights? You will need - 3 sqmm brown wire from battery to relays 2 x blade fuse holders with 15 amp fuses - http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/fuses/holders1.php 4 lengths of 2 sqmm thinwall cable from relays to lights - Blue/Black, Blue Pink, Blue/Slate, Blue/Orange - this is the same as the existing wiring. 2 lengths of 2 sqmm thinwall cable in black for earthing (order enough to earth both relays too. http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/cable/thinwall.php 2 x 5 blade twin make & break relays http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/relays/relays.php 2 x relay sockets http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/relays/sockets.php 2 x headlamp connectors http://shop.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/Electrical_Miscellany.html#aZZPLUG01 2 x lengths of F11 convoluted cable tubing I would position the relays behind the dash or on the bulkhead. Locate the existing high beam and dip beam circuits and put your relays where the cable can reach. I haven't been specific about lengths as that will depend on how you run your cables, where you site your relays and where you intend to earth everything. On the subject of earthing you're probably best to earth the lamps on the bulkhead earth point. Once you've fixed your relays in position, crimp the relay terminals on the cables and fit to relay socket. Then decide how you're going to run your convoluted tubing, cut it to length and thread in a wire for dip beam LH, full beam LH and earth. Then repeat for the RH. Then cut any surplus cable from the lamp end, crimp on the headlamp connector and fit to lamp. Leave the existing wiring in place or remove if you feel energetic! Then run your battery cables, probably easy to attach to the battery +ve terminal, fit fuse holders inside the battery box and then run the cables out of the battery box and up into the engine compartment. Crimp the relay terminals on and fit to socket. Then do the earths from the lamps and relays to the bulkhead earth point. Connect the existing dip beam cable to one relay and the existing full beam cable to the other relay. Now what you have is a system whereby when on dip beam, 12v flows to the dip beam relay, energises the coil and closes the contact. This allows 12V from the battery to flow across both 87 contacts and down your new shiny wiring loom to the dip beam. You flick to full beam, power is taken from the dip relay and the lights go out but 12v is sent to the full beam relay, which energises the coil etc, etc. This will also work if you flash the lights at other Defender drivers! Hope that makes sense, any queries shout. This maybe a little more involved than some replies but it will look tidy and last for years. Wiring Diagram - 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 thread now linked from the tech archive, for long term reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olliebradley Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Brilliant help guys, thanks for such speedy useful replies!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I followed some of mmgemini's diagram and it has made a hell of a difference, The only thing I didn't do was the dipped beam on permanent, It has given me at least 50 % brighter headlights-I got all of my cable and my 70 Amp relays from Autosparks who were excellent when I turned up on spec to collect my wiring, One thing I also did is tin the cable and solder the crimped connectors onto the ends of the cable(Also using heat shrink too) and put the relays for the head light wiring up grade into a weather proof box from B&Q I also combined in the box with the headlight 70 Amp relays a 30 Amp relay for my Mondeo fan(on the drivers side) and a 30 Amp relay(on the passenger side) for the small compact air horns, As I do go wading on the odd occasion and want the upgrade to last, The boxes are bolted to the inner wheel arches which I use as earth points for the relays HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TS888 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Isn't it amazing what an improvement proper wiring provides? I was getting just a shade over 11v at the lamps with the stock wiring. I did a new loom exactly as Dyna VT illustrated, and now have over 13v to the lamps. I have a similar loom for my aux lamps, all in a weather proof box under the bonnet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 The advantage of fitting a dip beam relay is that the light switch will last for ever. It is a mod I have had to do to nearly all cars I have owned. The manufacturer saves the cost of one relay and the light switch will last until the warranty runs out. Cost Accountants should be shot at dawn. I also improved my voltage at the bulbs from 11.1v to 13 with the engine running. Makes a big difference to the light output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Somebody at last has realised that the headlight wiring needs inproving. Please look at my five year old post on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TS888 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Somebody at last has realised that the headlight wiring needs inproving. Please look at my five year old post on this subject. Too bad LR never gave it proper attention... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henk Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 This is an off-the-shelf solution but seems to be available only in Scandinavia: http://www.biltema.se/sv/Bil---MC/Bilreservdelar/Belysning/Belysning-ovrigt/Kabelsats-for-stralkastare-42680/ I installed one yesterday, very easy to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 or i can supply one ready made for £30 posted......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darcon Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 my dip headlights are not working,the high beams on the same bulb are working fine. I've changed the switch on the steering colume as I thought this was the problem and I've changed the fuses but cantI'work out what the problem is. its a 2003 td5 defender 110 , should i go and rewire the lights or does anyone have a simpler solution. . . .thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 find the dim dip pink relay bejind the instrument pack, remove the relay & join the red/blue wires together, that should get the dip part of ypour headlights working again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Would a 2003 been fitted with the dim-dip relay Ralph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 They were fitting them in 2006, so I'd say so. 1988 it was "outlawed" (as it were) by the EC, so took them a little while to catch up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Ah OK, I didn't know that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Dim Dip is shown in the Td5 2002 on wiring diagrams, so it should be in a 2003 vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 They were fitting them in 2006, so I'd say so.1988 it was "outlawed" (as it were) by the EC, so took them a little while to catch up! dim dip requirement was repealed but LR still fit the systrem to new vehicles, it was a UK only requirement, but because we are part of the EU, they said it had to be cancelled. my 1989 110 had dimdip, not anymore it's a very unreliable system,. from wikipedia ------------ United KingdomU.K. regulations briefly required vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1987 to be equipped with a dim-dip device[19] or functionally dedicated daytime running lamps, except those vehicles type-approved to ECE Regulation 48 regarding installation of lighting equipment—this exception was made because ECE R48 did not require dim-dip or daytime running lights, and while countries signatory to the ECE Regulations are permitted to maintain their own national regulations as an option to the ECE regulations, they are not permitted to bar vehicles approved under the ECE regulations. The dim-dip system operated the low beam headlamps (called "dipped beam" in the UK) at between 10% and 20% of normal low-beam intensity. The running lamps permitted as an alternative to dim-dip were required to emit at least 200 candela straight ahead, and no more than 800 candela in any direction. In practice, most vehicles were equipped with the dim-dip option rather than the running lamps.[19] The dim-dip lights were not intended for use as daytime running lights. Rather, they operated when the engine was running and the driver switched on the front position (parking) lamps. Dim-dip was intended to provide a nighttime "town beam" with intensity between that of the parking lamps commonly used at the time by British drivers in city traffic after dark, and low beam headlamps; the former were considered insufficiently intense to provide improved conspicuity in conditions requiring it, while the latter were considered too glaring for safe use in built-up areas. The UK was the only country to require such dim-dip systems, though vehicles so equipped were sold in other Commonwealth countries with left-hand traffic.[20] In 1988, the European Commission successfully prosecuted the UK government in the European Court of Justice, arguing that the UK requirement for dim-dip was illegal under EC directives prohibiting member states from enacting vehicle lighting requirements not contained in pan-European EC directives. As a result, the UK requirement for dim-dip was quashed.[19] Nevertheless, dim-dip systems remain permitted, and while such systems are not presently as common as they once were, dim-dip functionality was fitted on many new cars well into the 1990s.[citation needed] http://dastern.torque.net/techdocs/dimdip.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darcon Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 thanks a million ill try that in the morning and re post my success. its an irish defender so i take it norms are the same as the UK; thanks again its no fun tryin to drive it in the dark....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUMHSKULL Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 hi consider fitting a second relay in parallel on each circuit... did the same relay conversion to a mk 1 vw scirocco storm i owned. about 22 years ago now... worked fantastic, really bright lights untill.... driving along one night on an unlit country road in the rain...had to dip my lights for an oncoming car ... which was the exact same moment when the dip relay decided it no longer wanted to work.... had to flick it back to main beam kinda quick... the driver of the oncoming car decided to show his disaproval of my 600 odd wattsits of main beam plus spotlights by turning his main beam plus spotlights on... a sphincter twitchin few seconds i am in no hurry to repeat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 hi a sphincter twitchin few seconds i am in no hurry to repeat... Another option would be a diode between the connection to the relay coil and the output to the headlight dip beam. In the event of the relay failing, the headlight will still be illuminated all be it at lower brightness? It needs a diode because otherwise if you switch the ignition off with the lights on, the ignition circuit would remain powered. In practice, I'm not convinced this is necessary as a relay will be more reliable than the OE light switch on a Defender! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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