Jump to content

200-300tdi Airbox Sealing


Recommended Posts

  • 5 months later...

After the inevitable couple of months wait, my new Safari snorkel has finally put in an appearance, so tomorrow evening I will probably start putting it on :)

For those who haven't seen a Safari off a vehicle it is a much improved design which replaces part of the stupidly designed internal air ducting inside the wing with a completely waterproof design. The stupid flappy rubber thing that acts as a water drain at the lowest point is easily dealt with using silicone sealant.

However....

This leaves one possible point of water ingress which is the air filter housing. The "fanny" drain on the bottom of the filter housing end cap is easy to sort out; dump it and replace it with the red cap off a 400ml WD40 can, I did that on my last 90 and it is a good fit which with a bit of silicone or insulating tape will be waterproof.

But the end cap of the air filter housing (the bit you unscrew and take off to change the filter) does not seem to be a terribly good seal on to the main body of the filter housing. I don't want to seal it on permanently with silicone or self amalgamating tape, because I need to take it off to get at the filter for maintenance, it's quite dusty here.

Any ingenious ideas please? I am thinking something along the lines of a very big O ring made of soft rubber, though I haven't a clue where to find such a thing, but I wondered if anybody else has come up with a cunning plan to achieve this but still allow you to get the filter out easily?

Discuss :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about a ring of string or suitable cotton (bandage) soaked in oil?

Cheap and cheerful. :lol:

Steve, here's what I did. The 'fanny' drain was glued shut, filled with silicon sealant and then I've used a jubilee clip to hold it to the filter housing. I then smear silicon grease on the join between the two part of the filter housing. That's been flawless for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know how much they are.... but why not get the intake off a waterproofed wolf??? (not a standard Wolf)

Different to to a standard 300 TDi.

Part no is: PHB102510

In all honesty they're probably vast amounts of money... but from what I remember are better sealed and don't have the little drain.

Outlet pipe I also think is different, it comes out of the side, rather than the bottom.

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After the inevitable couple of months wait, my new Safari snorkel has finally put in an appearance, so tomorrow evening I will probably start putting it on :)

For those who haven't seen a Safari off a vehicle it is a much improved design which replaces part of the stupidly designed internal air ducting inside the wing with a completely waterproof design. The stupid flappy rubber thing that acts as a water drain at the lowest point is easily dealt with using silicone sealant.

However....

This leaves one possible point of water ingress which is the air filter housing. The "fanny" drain on the bottom of the filter housing end cap is easy to sort out; dump it and replace it with the red cap off a 400ml WD40 can, I did that on my last 90 and it is a good fit which with a bit of silicone or insulating tape will be waterproof.

But the end cap of the air filter housing (the bit you unscrew and take off to change the filter) does not seem to be a terribly good seal on to the main body of the filter housing. I don't want to seal it on permanently with silicone or self amalgamating tape, because I need to take it off to get at the filter for maintenance, it's quite dusty here.

Any ingenious ideas please? I am thinking something along the lines of a very big O ring made of soft rubber, though I haven't a clue where to find such a thing, but I wondered if anybody else has come up with a cunning plan to achieve this but still allow you to get the filter out easily?

Discuss :)

A strip of innertube approx 30mm wide, (car or bicycle) stretched and wrapped like tape over the outside of the join will do the job. Secure with duct tape or a couple of very long cable ties around the filter body.

Or a 30mm wide 'section' of a suitable car innertube(will be like a large wide rubber band) to stretch over the join.

Regards,

Diff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For your "fanny" drain use either a rubber bung from the front jack mounting point or the top off a 35mm film conntainer.With suitable glue of course.

I like the inner tube idea.

I eat rat poison

mike

I can cause trouble in an empty house.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks all, good ideas.

I will stick with the WD40 cap to replace the drain as 1) it worked well for me before and 2) its a nice shiny red bit on the engine B) :ph34r::rolleyes::unsure:

The interesting thing with it is that it used to fill up with mud all the time. I can only think that it was the mushroom snorkel top collecting mud flicked up by wide tyres (12.50s - stick out past the arches) and when it dried out it would break up and go through the intake system. The filter was always clean, but the WD40 cap always had dried mud and grass in it!

I will look into the Wolf type, not seen one and I didn't know they were different apart from the flappy bit on the outside of the wing. Anybody got a photo of one? There are lots of military LR's here but the only Wolf I have ever seen was an ambulance and I've no idea where it lives.

Total waterproofing is probably not necessary but I figured I might as well do it properly - hence the desire to have something that is waterproof but can be easily removed for maintenance. I like the inner tube idea - simple and should be effective. I should think a 205R16 tube would be about the right size?

I'll take it off and check that join, thanks Tony.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Michele

The SS550HF, standard one for a 300Tdi. As far as I can see there are no differences inside the wing for the new Tdi Defenders, compared to those built from 1994-98 when they were the standard engine everywhere.

I'll probably post some pics when I put it on as I couldn't find any to make sure it was what I wanted (in terms of the plumbing inside the wing) before I ordered it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aaaaah,lucky you!

That looks infinitely better than the SS575HF-LHD I was given by the Italian dealer (don't start me on this).

:angry:

I'd like to convert mine but no way,can't remould polyethilene...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well....

I will definitely be posting some pictures when I have finished.

All I will say at the moment is that all you folks who think you have waterproof air filter cans probably don't :)

Tony (White90) was right, but that wasn't the only place in the air filter can where you can see daylight coming through if you take it off and have a really good look with a bright light. Rather a lot of silicone sealant and tape later, I think I probably have a waterproof one. And a slightly sealant encrusted T-shirt :blink:

Haven't finished yet because I need to wait for some of the silicone sealant to dry on things like the bottom water drain before I put everything back in, otherwise I will end up covered in the bluddy stuff :angry: and also the holes I had to cut in the wing I have touched up with paint so the paint/lacquer doesn't start to peel off, so need to wait for that to dry.

The interesting thing was once I had it all pulled to bits, firstly how much crud there was in the intake plumbing, and secondly where it had been coming in. A bit worrying really :blink: but should be better now :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well....

All I will say at the moment is that all you folks who think you have waterproof air filter cans probably don't :)

I'd agree, Steve. The only way to test it is to see if, when the snorkel is covered, the engine stops and doesn't loose its vaccum instantly. With the engine stopped you'll hear where any air is coming in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I meant was that I have discovered some interesting leaks in the air filter can which nobody has mentioned so far :)

Bit wary about the vacuum method on a plastic snorkel - a perfect vacuum is -15psi from atmospheric (though this isn't going to get to that), and that's a lot of pressure over the area of the big flat side of a Safari snorkel... lets say the bottom bit is 6 x 6 inches in area (if anything it's bigger) so that could be 500lb pressing in on the side of the snorkel body!

I know there will be no leaks anywhere else anyway, because the snorkel is one piece, the pipes are a good fit and airtight, and I can guarantee nothing short of nuclear weapons will open the T-drain at the bottom ever again :lol: just as well as it is a PITA to get off :angry:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bit wary about the vacuum method on a plastic snorkel - a perfect vacuum is -15psi from atmospheric (though this isn't going to get to that), and that's a lot of pressure over the area of the big flat side of a Safari snorkel... lets say the bottom bit is 6 x 6 inches in area (if anything it's bigger) so that could be 500lb pressing in on the side of the snorkel body!

Yeh, it also hurts your hand :o but ts still the best method I've come across so far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bit wary about the vacuum method on a plastic snorkel - a perfect vacuum is -15psi from atmospheric (though this isn't going to get to that), and that's a lot of pressure over the area of the big flat side of a Safari snorkel... lets say the bottom bit is 6 x 6 inches in area (if anything it's bigger) so that could be 500lb pressing in on the side of the snorkel body!

Steve, I think a lot of people underestimate the strength of Safari snorkels; they're massivly strong things. To give you an example. I was driving through a wooded track and an unseen branch went through the snorkel grill and ripped the top off backwards breaking the snorkel and breaking the jubilee clip. The bang was incredible. The top looked pretty bent (the hole was about 2" too long :o ) when I picked it up but after about 2 minutes it had returned to its original shape with no visible damage (although the grill is no more). When I do wing bars I'll have the snorkel rigidly mounted to the bars/cage and I'll have no worries with sitting the vehicle on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony I intend to take pictures of the whole intake system assembled out of the vehicle using both old and new snorkels, to show the pros and cons of each, plus all the potential water ingress points identified, and post on here. It might be a useful thing to put in the tech archive once the thread has run its course, many on here will already know most of the information but it may be useful to folks looking at installing a snorkel for the first time.

Will - I'll take your word for the strength! I hope I don't test it by putting the vehicle on its side, and I have no fear whatsoever of belting it on a tree :lol:

Not sure I am going to put my hand over it, but I might find something else and try that. A rubber soled shoe or something would probably make a decent seal. Cue somebody producing a cartoon of BB with one leg jammed down a snorkel right up to the b*****s... :unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right, here we are:

Firstly on dismantling the old snorkel I was a bit worried to see there had clearly been a leak where the snorkel goes through the wing which had let water in at some point; not that clear on the photo but the arrow shows where there are marks showing water ingress, a sort of spray pattern:

P1200098.jpg

On with the sealing up. The first two bits are easy: the water drain and the end cap. Water drain; take it off (it will be dirty, and you can't clean it properly with it still mounted in place so don't even bother trying as it will be half a job) clean up thoroughly, take out the rubber flap, fill with silicone sealant, put the rubber flap back in and seal it right up with silicone all over the top of it. On the air filter can, take off the drain valve, replace with the cap off a 400ml WD40 can (a good fit) and wrap up/seal with lots of insulating tape. Job done :)

P1190081.jpg

Now for the air filter can itself. Looks waterproof. Isn't. Apart from the bit that Tony identified, sealed as follows

P1190085.jpg

I also did a very thorough examination and found more leak points. The crimping on the end of the can looks good. But hold it up to a bright light (sorry, a cr&p photo but you can see the point...) and you see this:

P1190086.jpg

Daylight coming through round the end! Not good for waterproofing :unsure:

So I wrapped it up with tape on the outside

P1190088.jpg

and silicone sealant on the inside (which is bluddy difficult to do due to the bit in the middle being in the way)

P1190089.jpg

The finished fully waterproof can ready to go back on

P1200093.jpg

Now for an illustration of why the Safari design is much better than the Mantec/Land Rover/Rebel design. These are pictures of the air intake system assembled on the floor, up as far as the air filter can.

The Safari is a one piece moulded snorkel body with a single hose from the bottom of the snorkel to the water drain; arrows indicate joints and therefore possible water entry points

safari.jpg

The Rebel snorkel that was on there uses the original Land Rover piping inside the wing which is a complete abortion of a design, stupid plastic bits joined together with no sealing. I know from past experience it is a pig of a thing to seal up properly. Again, arrows indicate the joints; the yellow arrows indicate the bits that are difficult to seal properly

P1200090.jpg

And the finished product

P1200097.jpg

To my surprise the end cap of the air filter can is completely airtight - no leaks at all. Clap a bit of rubber over the top of the snorkel and all the pipes collapse then after 3-4 sec the engine stalls, the only hissing you can hear is from the top of the snorkel, nothing else appears to be leaking at all.

Just what I wanted to achieve ... now the next time I do this:

PC310091.jpg

I won't be having these:

kittens.jpg

Sorted :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve, I think a lot of people underestimate the strength of Safari snorkels; they're massivly strong things. To give you an example. I was driving through a wooded track and an unseen branch went through the snorkel grill and ripped the top off backwards breaking the snorkel and breaking the jubilee clip. The bang was incredible. The top looked pretty bent (the hole was about 2" too long :o ) when I picked it up but after about 2 minutes it had returned to its original shape with no visible damage (although the grill is no more). When I do wing bars I'll have the snorkel rigidly mounted to the bars/cage and I'll have no worries with sitting the vehicle on it.

I can only agree about the strength of a Safari snorkel.

You can park a Discovery on that snorkle after rolling off a dual carriageway !!!

Not a panel left on the Discovery,the snorkel needed a new top.

I eat rat poison

mike

I can cause trouble in an empty house!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy