Maverik Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Hi People... in the famous words of britney spears... "ups I did it again" H reg 1991, Defender 110 CSW, with power steering. (running standard size BF mud terrain tyres) I've just taken delivery of a rather special 110 and its got a wierd problem I've not encountered before... The steering is frighteningly light, I've not had chance to get under it yet as I'm in transit, but at a loss as to what the problem is... Not got access to any manuals etc. can somone tell me what length the track rod should be, to rule out bad wheel alignment... next thing wqould be looking at the steering damper. When driving there is absolutly no resistance in the steering... Any thoughts? Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Is this another 110 on top of the other one you had? Back on topic, could someone have messed with the power steering pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 On the pump tweak issue, possible, but I think not as its not been messed with in that way as far as I can tell. I'll post up a pick soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Could be a combination of things, knackered damper, no swivel preload..... Is it light when going slowly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 btw couldn't find a track rod length in rave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 1230mm thread centre to thread centre according to http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=75164 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 It probably doesn't help but mines the same, I always think its too light, but I've had two boxes and two pumps on it and it still does it. It doesn't run a damper though so maybe that's it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 ok measured the track rod and its pretty much bang on, it must be a duff steering damper, i can't think of anything else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Drove an lr based offroad only machine once and it was like you say, damn scary, but the owner had messed with the steering box, valve thingy inside, thats all i know.....good luck...... G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Fit huge tyres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Fit huge tyres? ...and wheel spacers to increase the scrub radius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 One thing that comes to mind, is it origional engine?. Only ask as the P38 (and Disco2?) run a higher pressure power steering pump, I think about 1500psi rather than 1100psi max, this would give the problems you describe. If the truck is V8 then the engine could have a pump from one of these vehicles on it. Only other idea would be excessive camber, not likely as this would require either a big lift or a bent axle either of which should be pretty obvious. I assume you have already checked the tyre pressures....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Surely that pressure is a maximum though? Ie under normal steering, when driving along, the box shouldnt be seeing anywhere near the maximum pressure, and thus the fact that the pump can deliver a higher max shouldnt matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I've gone from BFG A/T to MTs and the steering got very very light as a consequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 Well I'm nearly home, getting used to the steering but its not right, I wonder if its a few problems ie swivel pre load too, I noticed it was a 6 bolt steering box no major leaks or anything, if the pump was over pressurising I would have thought there would be a leak or two somewhere on the system it being fairly old. First thing I'll look at is the damper arrangement.then move on too more exotic theories . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Another Camel? That's greedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Very nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 the Disco is a little poorly , got some orrible tin worm, so she wont be back on the road till end of summer now, then maybe somone else will get a chance to own her, not decided yet. In the meantime I've got this wee beast to slowly start straightening out. This power steering thing is really wierd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialbikejames Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Swivel pre-load if I had to guess. Also worth checking you dont have any toe-in set- this can make Defenders quite fidgety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 Toe-in can do that...? now my measuring wasn't that accurate but i did maybe measure that the track rod was maybe around 10mm over length... will have another look at that. cheers Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialbikejames Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I find toe-in makes the front very light on cambers and when turning- very noticable when throwing her into a roundabout, the front would feel like it was tucking under. Anyway, worth checking the tracking with a bit of string for the time it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 I will do that, I refuse to belive it was made like this on purpose. Cheers Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The PAS box is load sensitive, there are two parts to the input shaft/valve assembly, these are linked by a torsion bar. It's the relative difference in movement between the two parts that governs the ammount of assistance. When you turn the steering when stationary, in ruts, parking etc, and there is high resistance from the wheels being turned, this causes the torsion bar to twist, this allows the ports in the valve to open fully and provide maximum power assistance. As resistance decreases the torsion bar twists less and the ports don't open as far, thereby reducing power assistance. If the torsion bar or its locating pin break you get maximum assistance instantly at all speeds, very scary on the road. It's possible to "modify" the box to achieve this. If this is your problem it's probably new box time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 The PAS box is load sensitive, there are two parts to the input shaft/valve assembly, these are linked by a torsion bar.It's the relative difference in movement between the two parts that governs the ammount of assistance. When you turn the steering when stationary, in ruts, parking etc, and there is high resistance from the wheels being turned, this causes the torsion bar to twist, this allows the ports in the valve to open fully and provide maximum power assistance. As resistance decreases the torsion bar twists less and the ports don't open as far, thereby reducing power assistance. If the torsion bar or its locating pin break you get maximum assistance instantly at all speeds, very scary on the road. It's possible to "modify" the box to achieve this. If this is your problem it's probably new box time. I think you may be on the money there young man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 The PAS box is load sensitive, there are two parts to the input shaft/valve assembly, these are linked by a torsion bar.It's the relative difference in movement between the two parts that governs the ammount of assistance. When you turn the steering when stationary, in ruts, parking etc, and there is high resistance from the wheels being turned, this causes the torsion bar to twist, this allows the ports in the valve to open fully and provide maximum power assistance. As resistance decreases the torsion bar twists less and the ports don't open as far, thereby reducing power assistance. If the torsion bar or its locating pin break you get maximum assistance instantly at all speeds, very scary on the road. It's possible to "modify" the box to achieve this. If this is your problem it's probably new box time. You sound like a man in the know, this is a 6 bolt Gemmer box, I can;t find any exploded diagrams of that one so not entirly sure of its internals, but is that the same control set-up at the 4 bolt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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