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Sam's 12 Months Later Axles are Complete Thread


Mr Noisy

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Hello!

So, more or less a year ago to the day, i exploded my rear diff.

I'd been using 10spline RD03 ARB lockers in my disco for a few years with great success, despite the built in air leakage problems they were great.

I ran 33" tyres and it was always over geared, although this didnt come to light until i Megasquirted the vehicle, and after looking at my graphs/tables/data etc, Nige/Hybrid From Hell helped me to realise that the vehicle was over geared.

I fitted a 1.4 transfer case and the vehicle was transformed!

All was well, until on one fateful off road day, this happened:

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I didnt fully realise until i had the diff apart what had failed exactly, but it turned out to be the bearing spigot had snapped off the end of the diff, 30 seconds after i paid my money to enter the site!!! :(

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So my first port of call was Nige/HFH again, seeing as he is resident diff expert!

I was hoping that the parts would be available, but alas they were not.

It didnt take me long to decide that spending some money to go to 24 spline was in order, sorting out a few issues and making some improvements along the way.

One of my issues in past has been snapping off teflon swivel balls, so one of the first items i picked up was some VGC chrome swivels which are much stronger

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here is a copy/paste of the build spec i had drawn up for the axles:

"up front we will have Original LR chrome balls that do not/should not break.

These will be built into early (with the drain and level holes to use ep90 not swivel grease) 24 spline steering knuckles kindly provided by Mark L.

The 24 spline steering knuckles are to accept late 110 vented discs and calipers.

To these will be mounted FRC4320 stub axles to accept ashcroft AEU2522 cvs and early 90 hubs that will run wet without stub axle seals.

from Ashcroft will be an air locker, their 24/23 front shafts and their 5608 drive flanges.

Dave at Llama4x4 will provide braided brake hoses throughout the vehicle from master cylinder to bias valve and to all four corners. Gone are the days of hard pipe for me smile.gif

At the rear it is simpler, we will see an Ashlocker with ashcroft's early type 24/24 shafts which are longer than original 24 spline shafts as they are designed to work with the longer 10 spline stub axles. These stub axles will be FRC4320 at the rear also as they are surprisingly cheaper than stock disco 10 spline rear stubs. The brass portion will simply be unfitted/unused. Ashcrofts 5608/M drive flanges will be on the rear also, specific to 10 spline disco hubs.

As such I will use my original disco 10 spline hubs, new discs and new 300tdi rear calipers, supplied with fluid by braided hose of course."

*****it turned out that disco hubs do not fit FRC4320 stubs so had to use early 90 hubs all round and 5608 flanges*****

other than that the build has gone together more or less as originally planned.

however, not being one to do things by halves, and being genuinely worried about leaving a weak link in the system, i decided to add pegged casings from Nige to the spec also.

second action in the plan was to collect some axles that would provide a few parts for the build, these being off a TD 90

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aaaand then i took them apart

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and cleaned it all up

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and in around december 2013 started building a stock room in the car

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so first i turned up the swivel balls in the lathe and painted the bases again

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and ordered a huge box of parts from the good men at Barry4x4, things like seals, calipers, discs, pads, nuts bolts etc etc, all stock land rover stuff

9EE3A9DC-B7D2-4E10-A3DA-2E6ECCD74689.jpg

started cleaning up some components

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small thing, remember to remove your stub axle oil seal if you are running wet hubs, to make your bearings last forever
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started assembling swivels next
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its january now and i treated myself to a hub seal tool, best 50 quid spent ever!
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swivels done
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ashcroft front shafts arrived
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meanwhile bit by bit im taking the axles apart to sell whats in there and replace with new stuff
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state of play at this point was
"It now has 2x24 spline stock diffs in, Ashcroft shafts all round, chrome swivel balls, 24 spline knuckles, AEU2522 CVs, 10 spline hubs with new stub axles, Ashcroft drive members, 110 front calipers with vented discs up front, new rear discs and calipers."
there was still quite a shopping list and the car was due at donington 4x4 show all prim and proper in february, so i didnt hae much time to rest on my laurels!
next up, started fitting the braking system
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also did a few measly bits like tube turrets and welding QT diff gaurd top brackets onto the axle
then 200 quids worth of brake hoses turned up from dave @ llama4x4, what a great guy!
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small things like long diff studs, so that you can fit any type of diff casing
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and then it was time to take it all apart again, we're into february now!!
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i should add my vehicle cannot be immobilised for more than one evening in the week or two evenings at the weekend because the workshop is always in use, makes big jobs awkward!!
so for what was a VERY long sunday of graft, the front axle was completely refurbished!
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one week later, i smashed the rear axle on the sunday too.
had to do some chassis welding whilst there, was a 16 hour day!
E64AFF2C-E90C-4C6F-9BD1-373C2D3A80F7.jpg
did some more work final fixing on the brake hoses
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56AAF456-C083-4B87-ABC2-A0DF6D13B9D8.jpg
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and picked up a bunch of new bolts for the rear axle
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found a fault with a blocked gallery on a brand new caliper :(
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new shock mounts fitted and ordered, the old ones were well shot by now
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fitted the shocks, did some final cable tieing, and the car was DONE!!!
well, for the show at least!
this was 12th february, so there wasnt much time.
i spent the next few days minting the car for the show...
DONE.COM
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theres nige and steve :)
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anyway so once back from the show, normal service had to resume.
i had decided that i didnt want to fit regular land rover CWP sets, as they could end up a weak link
on that basis, i would fit ashcroft HD, which means i can change ratio :)
nige helped me again and we worked out that a 1.222 box with ashcroft 4.12 CWP would be the ideal ratio for my tyre size.
a stroke of luck, Gordon/Zim happened to be selling his rather new front diff, a nige unit that was the EXACT spec i needed, even a reverse cut front gear!!
so, i purchased this from him :)
49EBB4E5-7B71-4917-8906-3084BAF3AF82.jpg

i scoured ebay and found a couple of very very clean suffix F LT230s in 1.222 from late discos, one complete and one for parts. bought these too :)

next job was to start work on it

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all the hammers were out for LT230!

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cant remember what happened next but i think i had large boxes of LT230 parts in the car for some reason and i wasnt doing anything with them

so i started on other things, such as stripping my compressor to make it more suitable for my air install

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quick thread change

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painted

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and transfer case polished and lacquered

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thats that done

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more goods arriving :)

sanden air con pump and brackets for the V8, but this one is going to be an air compressor.

told you i dont do halves!

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next thing all that lot was cleaned up!

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and fitted! and it worked!!! :)

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got some stuff...

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fitted it....

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so it looks like i was saving money for the transfer case, thats what took so long!

heres the parts, its now end of march '14

Casings:
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Internals (inc. Ashcroft ATB):
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Service items:
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On with the job :)
exactly 4 hours later...
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you may have noticed the ashcroft ATB there for the LT230. yeah, decided that i might aswell fit it :(
i think by this point i had more or less decided on ashcroft CVs aswell, i had realised it wasnt a cheap build so might as well not have a weak link
i was well bored saving money for it so i came up with ideas to pass the time like making a smaller exhaust
here are the parts
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and here is the old rear section compared with new
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Basibally a smaller version of the same thing!
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exceptionally musical aswell! :P

anyway i fitted the transfer case and decided a skid plate might not be a bad idea

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ive made a cardboard template but not made the plate yet.

next on the list of wallet emptying activity was the ashcroft CVs and rear shafts.

ive never seen the cvs before and they are ABSOLUTELY PORNSTAR

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anyway a few days later it was Time to wave goodbye (hopefully forever) to the nicest CV joints I've ever seen:
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And this guy getting hidden too:
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handy brake line mod in action
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Anyway there you have it chaps and chapesses,
FRONT AXLE DONE :banana:
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Original Axle Casing converted with 10x Long Diff Studs
MegasquirtV8 Pegged Diff Casing
Ashcroft HD 4.12 Crownwheel & Pinion w/ Wolf Flange&Seal
Ashcroft Air Locker
Ashcroft HD Halfshafts
Range Rover Classic 10 Spline Chrome Swivel Balls
300 Disco 24 Spline Swivel Knuckles
Ashroft HD AEU2522 CV Joints
Early Land Rover (TD etc) 10 spline Stub Axles
Early Land Rover (TD etc) 10 Spline Hubs w/ RTC3511 inner seal.
Ashcroft HD Drive Flanges
Defender 110 Vented Discs & Big Calipers
Notes:
Stub Axle Mudshields removed and bolts located with spring washers.
Stub Axle Oil Seals removed
EP90 used in axle casing, swivel housing and hubs for thorough, replaceable lubrication - simply remove stub axle seals and use RTC3511 hub seal.
Well chuffed with that, worked hard for the person I'm not that keen on!

***** and this is where i pretty much ran out of money for ages. it was now early may 2014*****

i dragged the car out of the corner end of july time for a tidy up, it was terrible in there

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and then nothing AT ALL happened

for a while

until

I TEXT NIGE IN SEPTEMBER! :P

and told him id be needing a diff soon! :D

but still nothing happened....

until the 18th NOVEMBER when i finally paid for the rear diff!!!! :D :D :D

and it arrived this morning!

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and of course without further a do, i popped it in the axle!!

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so there you have it ladies and gents, two complete ashcroft/megasquirt axles and a rebuilt transfer case with more ashcroft goodies.

the purpose off this thread was to get a load of pictures up of some of the components some people may not have seen, and show what is possible regards ratio changes and setup changes using the aftermarket parts that are available.

for example the axles use 10 spline hubs and stubs because they have wider bearing spacing which is better for the bearings, but only ashcroft shafts and cvs allow you to achieve this with full strength using 24 spline diffs, but i use 24 spline steering knuckles to hold these 10spline hubs because i run vented discs which have late fitment calipers

there is a lot of improvement and adjustment you can make once youve figured out the options

for example the diffs are ashcroft units with adjusted ratio to accomodate my tyre size, assembled using nige&steve's incredible skill and superbly crafted pegged casings, making them essentially unbreakable as far as my setup is concerned, and my car will perform better now with the final drive adjusted rather than just a 1.4 transfer box which only adjusts the high range

i can only thank nige for his help supplying me with parts and making a great job of it too.

ive still got to build the air system, make the skid plate and buy the props from gwyn lewis, but im certainly glad both axles are done and full of oil!!

cheers! :D

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Hi,

Great write up, must have taken as long to post as to do the work!!

You scared me with the £200 of brake hose but then I realised that you have no rigid pipe now?

Is stainless covered hose as good as rigid pipe at resisting bulging under preasure? I know it is much better than rubber hose but never thought of using it for the whole system! I can see that it is much easier to route but will need more support?

Marc

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Oh....

and that RD03 ARB of yours you properly killed ....which I took off you in P/Ex as sharpnel / spares Made me develop the

repalcement Xcess 4x4.com ARB RD03 RD56 End Flange Plate ...which ARB now no longer make, so I owe YOU thanks as well Sam !

Heres you old destroyed Diff !

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It lives again with the new end plate and a full rebuild......just to annoy you :P:rofl:

Nige

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I enjoyed that :)

Tell me, whats the thing that takes two brake pipes from the MC and turns it into 3? I've not seen one of those before

Thats the rear brake valve compensator to stop rear brakes from locking.

It's not normally in such a visible or clean location!

Marc

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Thats the rear brake valve compensator to stop rear brakes from locking.

It's not normally in such a visible or clean location!

Marc

Haha yeah you're right

It normally lurks on the lower NSF inner arch on a 300 disco, even though mines a 200 but I preferred the 300 setup.

And yeah obviously it had to be cleaned up and painted :P

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Great build ! The lads at work use the full-flexi brake pipes on their race cars. Easy to fit, and easy to move for repair work!

The Ashcroft CV's are great. I've always treated my CV's with care, until I fitted the Ashcroft. Now it's dive into a ditch, full lock and give it some V8 :)

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Thats the rear brake valve compensator to stop rear brakes from locking.

It's not normally in such a visible or clean location!

Marc

Haha yeah you're right

It normally lurks on the lower NSF inner arch on a 300 disco, even though mines a 200 but I preferred the 300 setup.

And yeah obviously it had to be cleaned up and painted :P

That would explain why I've not seen one before then! Thanks guys

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  • 4 weeks later...

Regarding the use of flexi pipes throughout.... I spoke to David at Llama during the week and he told me the story of a racer based on a disco 2. Full flexi lines throughout and ended with a spongy pedal. However it turned out in the end to be the calipers flexing!

Once they were changed it was all good. That sold it for me, my 90 is likely to be totally stainless flexi. Easy for me to put in place and means I can more easily put them in after the body is built.

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New end caps I make out of EN34T and are machined from a solid billet. The ARB is a cheap nasty casting. The design of the ARB standard casting had numerous weak design flaws in it....thin where flange bolts to crown wheel. ..bad radius making for natural shear points...and webbing added as weak on side plate. On the ones I make all of these issues have been redesigned. ..twice as thick where crown wheel bolts webbing dropped and side basically far thicker and solid and proper radius to avoid shear points....oh and not a nasty casting proper billet high quality metal !

Plus

10 spline end flange from ARB no longer available that's the RD03 and if you can get the 24 spline one from ARB thats the RD56, it's still the crappy casting + long deliveries as often from Australia. ..and not cheap either...rumoured also to about to be discontinued as a spare !. My unit was designed to fit either of these units :D ..where as ARBs are different and not interchangable :

It took some months + much research and a biggish lump of my capital to get the new end flange made. ...This sort of unit even on cnc is expensive ...and to get the costings anywhere sensible (with cnc volume is king...its cheaper the more units you have but then the total bill jumps and jumps .... ..and when the unit like this is ooooer ouch each.... X 50 is wallet crippling for a small business !.....) I had 50 made. OUCH !

I was terrified that they wouldn't sell and I had capital locked into 50 of these. ...1 went on Sams diff...and now..Some months later about 20x sold. ..Inc one to Dave at ashcrofts sorting out one of his customers broken units Thanks Dave :i-m_so_happy:

Will always be a slow burn seller...1 a month maybe. .will never make me rich...but that's not what its about for me. ..I just like finding solutions to diff and Megasquirt problems designing making things.. oh - .and then pray they sell lol

BUT ...this means that it you have one if these early arbs. ..When they destroy the end flange (which is the bit that does fail) it's now not only repairable vs a pile of expesnive scrap.... but fixable AND upgradable too.


luckily for me ARB seem to continue to make mad and daft issues on even current their current RD128 diffs....like the daft soft and easily damaged soft thin copper pipe running over and close to the Crown wheel making them prone to damage. ...which is really kind of them to offer me the opportunity to make solutions... :rofl:


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Makes in so solid you can ping it and make a note :rofl: ...still a daft idea to run that pipe where it goes, which was FINE on earlier Lockers, what idiot was paid salary to come up with this brain fart of a routing ? :rofl:

Nige

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Ohlins: the camera was iphone 5S, but i do try to pay some attention to metering, and edit some of my shots to improve white balance and sharpness

LRF: thanks, yeah the flexi hoses just seem so natural to me. ok ok they are high tech compared to old copper, but when i wanted to remove my hubs the other day to check the bearings were doing nicely, just popped the caliper off with no problems which was the main reason for doing it

Bill: thanks, i kinda threw it together becuase there was so many pictures to deal with, but the info is there

Nige: meh :D

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