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  1. Thanks Bowie. Ok, so, if it's not broken, don"t fix it 😁 ... I will mess with something else Cheers Erik.
  2. Hi Gents, thanks for your congrats and also your valuable help. You are part of the success !!! And yes, I am very happy and quite proud to have come to this point already. Still a few things I would like to get better of course (smoother warm-up / cold AE), but it is already, I must say, more usable than it was on stock tired LUCAS AFM. I will surely post a few more things when I can work on it and update. For example, if you have a look at the logs I have posted above in the thread, I am a bit concerned about the AFR (and I must say the Battery voltage also) looking kind of noisy... even if I have no functioning problem... looks like maybe my main voltage is noisy... and it is the same supply source for AFR and ECU... but why is that, all the more, in the MLV screenshot above, that you can still see the "noise" on these two signals while engine not running !!! Cheers again to you all, big credits to the grown ups, Bowie, Fridge, Quagmire... and all the others Erik.
  3. Hello MS friends, another update, and a pretty good one !!! after various fiddling with the settings, and mainly playing as Bowie suggested on WUE, I can now start my tank like a factory car on just one turn of the key out of the window YEAHH !! Ok, so as before, it was starting on the first crank and stall, starting on the second crank and stall, starting on the third crank and run... then, on this run, I played with the wue, while racing against the increasing temperature to try and make it run smooth. The day after, I was ready to do the same again, and was explaining all the magic & rocket science behind my MS project to my brother in law who was around, telling him I was still playing with the settings to make it start better... cranked from cold... AND YES... IT RAN STRAIGHT AWAY ... YOOOHOOOOO. Then I though, maybe this is just out of luck. So a week after, from cold again... first crank and YYEESSSSSSS it runs 😁 Since then, I am maybe about 10 starts away, whenever cold or hot, and it always starts and run nicely first time. Ok, I reckon, I might still have to play a little around to refine things, as I feel it might be running a bit rich during the warm up... like 12.5/13.0 AFR... is this ok, or should I aim to closer to 13.5/13.7 ??? Here are might latest settings for what it is worth : Req_fuel = 19.6 // Idle cells @ 47 // idle advance at about 11 deg Crank PW in order of Temperature (4/16/27/38/54/71°C) = 8 / 6.5 / 5.5 / 4.5 / 3.8 / 3.1 ASE total 17 sec, fixed then decay, use fixed MAP for 6 sec @ 60 kpa ASE % in order of Temperature (4/16/27/38/54/71°C) = 24 / 22 / 20 / 16 / 10 / 4 WUE % in order of Temperature (4/16/27/38/54/71°C) = 135 / 132 / 128 / 117 / 108 / 100 It is really hard to tune/be sure about the 4/16°C cells in WUE, as weather here makes it difficult to do a cold start with CLT below 20 deg !!! PWM Idle valve set as warm up only, 200 frequency, closed at 70 dc, crank opening at 110, fast idle set at 20°C and 110 opening, slow idle set at 78°C and 70 dc. Seems to work like a charm ! Also, huge vibration on road as told a few posts above has been linked to my 235/85 mud tires... I believe their structure is shot as they are aging and might be way out of balance. I now "wear" a set of stock/small road tires on alloy rims, and it is smooth as silk... also, with my 4.11 R&P, this small tires make the tank behave like a sport car on take off🚀... yet the speedo is completely out 😎 I made a 100 km tuning run on road like this, with autotune cell change on very hard, and cell changes where not very important... and car runs really well, maybe I am biased, but I feel it runs and pulls better than before on LUCAS. I hope that this tuning run on small tires won't be compromised when I will refit new bigger tires (235/85 being "my" tire size for the tank). I have also activated fuel cut off on overrun, so it behaves as stock, when taking foot off throttle on overrun, the AFR goes straight in the 22.4 (no fuel) as it was doing under lucas era. Oh, did I mention it now starts every time on single turn of the key... oh yes I did, but it is so satisfying !!!!!! Thank you all for your support... I will keep on updating the refining of the tune hopefully, but the car is now completely usable as an everyday car, never stall when warm like it did before on the Lucas (and I don't even use PWM idle valve in closed loop ! even with autobox and A/C), behaves way better, start on first crank (oups ! said it again)... I guess, on the to do list is, one thing at a time, and patiently look what it does on several future crank and run : => refining a little the WUE => then try to smooth out a little the warm starting, maybe around ASE fixed map value ?? => refine a little the AE... when driving, no worries. When blipping the throttle at rest, feels like hesitation, mainly when still during warmup... => do a few autotune runs when the new tires will be back to check everything is tuned properly. Cheers. Erik (and yes, it starts first time now 🙃 )
  4. Hi chaps, Ok thanks. So I will leave this setting as is for now... If it's not broken, don't fix it! Cheers Erik
  5. Hi there, thanks for your answers. Ok Bowie, It makes sense for me to try to tune WUE first, as it lasts longer during engine warming, so you have time to try different values... or let TS do its magic... to try and have a smooth running after the ASE timeframe... and then finalise the 3 crank/fire cold starting issue by just upping the starting fuel with ASE... so will try in this order then, never mind if starting not perfect for the moment. Mr Fridge, yes I understand this, but the question is, what is the point in rising the rpm value for cranking speed ? If I remember, my cranking speed is about 160/200 rpm, so as long as it fires, it goes above 300 and switches to the maps... Thank you gents Have a nice weekend (no MS fiddling for me this weekend Cheers Erik
  6. Thank you all for your answers. I will try to reply to all the points of interest Quagmire, thank you, yes, I am progressing slowly in the real darkside of MS1... cold start and warmup. My cranking rpm is at 300 rpm, the value found by default in my ecu, and I believe in all the MSQs I have came across up to now : extraefi, Nige's, Popular defaults... Fridge, thank you, I did not know the factory cranking rpm is 518... as the engine manage to keep on running at about 500 rpm... I am a bit afraid of using such a high value. Yet, is 300 fine or should I up it to 400 for example ? I must admit I do not understand the benefit of upping this value ? Bowie, thank you very much for sharing your settings and your explanation on the Bl***y Iac plunger self moving ! My ASE time is set also as per the default founds in the msq listed above, and also following several Nigel posts were he usually advocates for a longer ASE, even up to 20 secs !?! Yet, I am very interested in your using the fixed MAP value of 90 kpa... I should indeed try your settings to see how different it behaves. Thank you About the priming pulse, repeatedly switching ON/OFF without firing, while my settings were prime twice at 4 ms... might have nearly flooded it, so this is why, for the moment, I made the priming pulse to 0. I will try moving it back to say 2 ms and if it doesn't start, I will try to crank again without switching the power off/on each time, as to prevent the priming to be repeated several times without firing. Now, Fridge, even with the prime set at zero, the fuel pump still runs for about 2 sec anyway to build up pressure. Following general consensus, I will keep on playing with my ASE for the moment, and once it runs from first crank, will try tuning the WUE, maybe with the autotune feature I am just a bit concerned that if I make ASE fine, but at the end of ASE it feels lean during WUE, that when you up the WUE, as it is cumulative with ASE, on next cold start, it might feel too rich during ASE time ??? So would it make sense, when upping the WUE, to decrease a little the ASE accordingly at the same temp, so it gives "the same" afterstart amount of fuel ??? for example, in my case, at 27°C ASE = 16 and WUE = 117, so ASE+WUE = 133, and in the log above, with a CLT at 23.9°C, there is a Gwarm value of 137, which seems to decrease with ASE timing and WUE time-frame, so I believe the Gwarm is ASE+WUE, hence the total enrichment for warming up... So when it starts running, engine receives Gwarm = ASE+WUE. If Gwarm is good for the engine to start by tweaking ASE... and then you change WUE, because after ASE time it runs too lean... then the Gwarm at next start, during ASE, will be richer ??? does this make sense ??? Cheers Erik
  7. Dear MS Friends, Weekend update as usual… Thanks Mr Fridge, i will try to work on this smoothing matter. Now back to cold starting. First cold start of the weekend Friday night… I think I nearly have flooded it. For several reasons (more on this later), the first one might be that I had the prime twice at 3 ms… but each time I turned key off and on between tune modifications and tries… it primed twice without firing… So I finally put some throttle in, and it started… Second start of the weekend, Saturday, after leaning a bit the ASE and putting a prime pulse at zero for the moment : 1st crank = start, rpm rise and stall 2nd crank = nope ! 3rd crank = started, and stayed alive… but really slow just above 500 rpm until end of warm up, gradually rising and then ok. When warm, played with the PWM IDLE valve settings to see which value gives what kind of warm rpm… but nearly no effect … closed dc value / max dc value… no difference !?!? damn it ! Is the valve seized??? Switch off engine, remove valve plenum side to be able to see inside the valve and plug back the plenum. Warm start ok… played with the settings, and the valve gate works ok… WTF !!! Then, with engine running at warm idle, took of the plug from the plenum… and no change, it was barely sucking air… see what I mean… some maybe yes already (please don't kick me on the head )… by laziness, I had left the stock Lucas IAC valve in its place, and I don't know why, but the plunger seems to have moved little by little to its closed position… so no air of course whatever the PWM idle valve position !!! Removed stock IAC and plugged the hole with a megasquirt-V8 magical plug… started and hey presto, about 2000 rpm with the idle air port opened to free air. Refitted the PWM IDLE valve, and it works nicely as it should… so, this Saturday cold start was a missed try because no extra idle air added… but, I now have a working PWM idle valve… even switched to closed loop to see a little how it was working, but back to warm up only for the moment !! I understand… one step at a time [note to myself : should post a picture of my pwm valve arrangement, as the disco engine bay lacks space to put it on megasquirt-v8 nice bracket !!! so ended up like Mr Noisy and Bowie I believe (I had asked about this in a previous thread recently) ... so with it hanging of the tubing... but that could have been worse finaly] Third start of the weekend, Sunday now with a working pwm idle valve set as warm up only : 1st crank = start, rpm rise and stall 2nd crank = start, rpm rise and stall 3rd crank = started, and stayed alive… and faster this time the pwm idle valve works ... but seems lean. Please have a look at the capture below… you can see the three crankings… each time, during cranking, the PW is at about 4.7 ms or so, and when it fires, makes a spike to about 9 ms and falls back to about 3.8, and then start climbing again until stall… except on third try… it stays alive… why is that ??? I have also attached the log file of this cold start, so any analysis of it could please help me to what kind of modification I should do to my settings (in "direction" and "quantity")… thank you in advance. Do I need bigger cranking pulse, so it stays alive during the transition to ASE, or is my cranking pulse just fine as it fires already, and I need to boost up the ASE more I believe to keep it running ??? but by how much ??? During the warm up phase, it feels lean imho… if someone could confirm by looking at the log attached please ?? Here are my settings at the moment below. I believe the VE and spark table are fine for now, as warm it drives really well. By the way, my req_fuel is at 19.6 and my idle cell VE is at 46… so that can give a reference idea of the global fueling to go with the settings below. To finish with, Sunday, I went for a little run with autotune on… which barely changed a few cells by +/- 1 count in hard setting… so might not be too far away… yet my problem remains on [MS mode off] a terrible vibration when slowing down, foot off throttle, above 80 km/h… added a few shims to rear trailing arm to have the t-case and diff propshaft yokes parallel… but still the same… I hope it is not a front propshaft issue (DC propshaft)… next available weekend, I will swap my mud tires with a set of regular road tires on alloy rims to hopefully rule out a wheel balance issue… but if so, why would it be worse on overrun than when accelerating ??? if still the same, will try driving with CDL and removing one propshaft at a time… next tries will tell… any ideas still welcome… sorry for the off topic blabla [MS mode on] Thank you again for your support guys Cheers Erik cold start 2018-07-01_16_cut.zip
  8. Hi there, Peter, thanks for your post and wise advice... I will try to do it one thing at a time, which is frustrating when you can't wait to go ahead and make it better , with the WUE autotune first... then will see... for ASE... Fridge... thanks for your contribution... I might get your quote printed and hanging on the wall !!! Anyone to comment or suggest ideas on my previous "big" post as to : => smoothing/increasing advance at the top of the first columns of my spark map as Bobtail84 explains ?? => smoothing manually my VE table as Nige usually suggest ?? => showing me your PWM idle control warmup only settings to get an idea of working setups ??? Thank you all Cheers Erik.
  9. Hi there, thanks Quagmire for this interesting reading. Yet, I find it difficult to know if my cranking/ase/wue are too lean or too rich... Cheers Erik
  10. Hi everyone, So, bit of an update after the weekend and further tuning… 1°) SPARK MAP : Following advice from the above posts, I uploaded my new spark map and afr tables. Cold start is still a pain : first crank = fire then stall / second crank won't start / third crank with some throttle will start, but rough as hell, keeping it running with throttle, and after a few seconds, I can leave it alone and it will idle very slow till a better temperature and its nice warm idle. My warm idle is still good for me at about 800/850 rpm – 40 kpa – 10 °advance – 13.5/13.7 afr After re-reading Bowie's post above about spark table hollow around idle, and also finding a post and spark map by Ancien Geek with quite high advance at low revs above idle kpa, and a very interesting post and table from Bobtail84 for a standard 3.9 with headers, see quote below : Bobtail84 spark table suggestion for a 3.9 with headers… … your spark map is too retarded in the 500 to 1500 rpm range. When you put your boot to it the map KPA will rise to 95ish and the spark is between 6 & 9 deg. The engine will bog down and struggle till you get the revs up. The map is like a dizzy curve and tuners have been trying to get dizzies more advanced at lower revs for... well for ever and they cant. With MS you can give it lots Try this one instead I must admit that what he says above is exactly what happens to my engine when bleeping the throttle at idle. I chickened out to load this map as is, with so much advance in the idle and upper left corner, so loaded my scheduled map instead from the above posts, and did the following tests and modifications. While happily idling in the 40 kpa/800 rpm cell, I engaged drive with brakes on… rpm dropped to left most column and map rose nearly one row. I then increased the advance in this new "auto in drive idle cell" to make the engine sound better. Back to neutral : ok / engage drive : yeah, much better hold on the revs. Now, with drive engaged, I also turned the AC on… new even more important drop in revs, and map climbed nearly a row again… so on this new in gear + AC cell, I increased advance to make it sound happier. Then I tried to smooth the cells on their right to make a transition with the rest of the map. It gives the map below, which provides me for now a strong idle, including when engaging gear and/or AC , without PWM idle valve in closed loop : YEAH !! Now, I am sure some grown ups could please suggest from their knowledge how to smooth a little bit more this new spark table. Please !!! I find also, as Bobtail84 says, that increasing the advance in the cells just above idle in the 500-1000 rpm helps improve the hesitation on throttle bleep at idle… and also, first run after this new map, I have no more hesitation when starting from a stop and applying throttle… double benefits !! From all the above… do you think it would be a good idea (yet still "safe") to load/try bobtail84's spark map above ?? I am a bit worried about the 13 deg advance at the idle cells and up to 27 above… but what he says makes sense. What do you guys think ? 2°) Tuning : From then on, I went for a tuning run with the new afr target table, and tried to cover the map as best as I could… except for the high rpm area, as when I tried, the car suffered from a big (read near dangerous) vibration on the motorway at 120 kmh and being under full acceleration… with the 3inch lift and mud tires… scary shake … I think my rear chassis side trailing arms bushes are worn out and the rear axle might be moving / wrapping, and also throwing out the propshaft UJ pinion angle, hence maybe the vibrations. But engine wise, it drives REALLY well already … also, I can confirm that my warm stalling issues with the LUCAS is GONE for good… might indeed have been the F*****g AFM on its way out !!! Here is the coverage map from TS autotune of Sunday's run (the cell change is faithfully empty as I did the screenshot after a cpu burn/tune save) As you can see on the attached pdf file, "ve table changes.pdf", here are my first ever VE map on top, and the latest one at the bottom, with circled in blue the cells that seem to have not been visited… I know NIGE is good at studying that kind of map and smoothing it out… so, Nigel, please, if you are around, or some other MS grown up, could you please comment/suggest any manual mod to my current VE map, PLEASE ?? 3°) Cold start : PWM IDLE VALVE, etc… As instructed to, I have not yet fiddled with ASE/WUE, but as each time I start from cold, it requires throttle… I felt it needed extra air, so as Bowie does, I felt like why not plumb the PWM IDLE valve in and set it up as warm up only … So this is what I did. When engine was warm and running, I plugged in the valve (not plumbed in) to find its closed dc value by looking inside directly, which for my valve is 70. Then I typed in the following values, but here again, I would really appreciate to get your suggestions/comments on the values to input here (BOWIE please… if you have settings from your running warm up only setup which I could try to translate to mine ???) I will really see the difference on the next cold start, but I am not too sure about the cranking dc value / idle duty at lower temp / fast idle and slow idle temps… any feedback welcome. 4°) ASE/WUE : Considering the low rev side of my VE map might be alright, maybe I can start playing around with the ASE/WUE to improve my cold starting, as the VE map itself might not be changing that much in the cells where the ASE/WUE might read ??? May I proceed masters ;o) ? If so, I admit I am a bit lost on which way to move the values around… I believe, I might work on ASE first maybe, as it happens in a limited time frame from cranking, and then try the autotune feature for the WUE from cold ??? ...else, what is the correct step by step way of tuning ASE/WUE, as they will have an effect on each other I believe !!!!!???? Thank you all for your attention and support Cheers Erik. ve table changes.pdf
  11. Bowie thank you SOOO much for your post and spark map idea. Autotune can take care of a base starting VE map for a good part... but for the spark map, you need to have a good starting one, and messing with it... well, you need to know what you are doing. So first hand knowledge from a grown up and working setup is good to have I am sorry, my native language is not english, and I am not sure I get it right on your first sentence about : " for one thing I think I reined the advance in the idle cells back a degree or two" Do you mean that you current table is modified from the picture posted by reducing by 1 or 2 degrees the cells at idle ? say 12 / 9 or 13 / 10 for example instead of 14 / 10 for the 40 kpa row at 500/800 rpm ?? Good thing is, my static idle behaves just like yours, say 40 kpa at 850/900 rpm, as is only with the base idle screw on plenum, with an AFR at about 13.5/13.7. I get the idea how the hollow in the spark map works. Thank you for that clear explanation. I will start this way and I will start with the warm up only for the PWM as you suggest, to at least get a better starting from cold... and if the idle is not strong enough then, I might try to fiddle with closed loop... but for this weekend it will be new spark map and warm engine VE tuning for the moment. Just one last thing Bowie : Have you found your laptop, or is this just a screenshot of the table you had on file ? ... as with the details you gave above, I am still VERY VERY interested in having a spying eye on your current msq... which would seem to be quite very close to my engine ... PLEEAASSE Thank you again for your valuable support Cheers Erik.
  12. Hi guys, thanks for the latest feedback re my maps. Can't wait for the weekend to load the latest spark map above and try out to tune the VE table with it and the latest AFR target above too (FF, will try not to forget to save msq before each change and record some logs...) Hopefully, if the family is not too much after me, I could do a bit of driving and tuning... Garry, I am sorry to read your posts above. The MS grown ups here know what they are talking about, and for our old generation (basic ?) engine, all the more fitted in our tanks (not race track cars), the MS1 is all the basic stuff that we need. Sincerely, at the beginning, I did the MS spark only with EDIS and kept my lucas ECU (while the grown ups here were telling to do it all straight away)... and I know I am not alone, I finally did it the full way as invited to at the beginning ... as the LUCAS was finally driving me crazy (I have posted everywhere in the world for weird warm engine stalling issues with the LUCAS to no avail). Hopefully, on the first 3 runs with full MS, with a dreadful spark map and not tuned yet VE table, it seems that the problem has disappeared ... bit early to shout out victory, but crossing fingers... believe the problem was in the MAF... and this expensive part is now forgotten !!! I now have to tune my VE table with the "popular" spark table above, and after that, dial in the AE/PWM/ASE/WUE to make it an everyday friendly vehicle, but already, on the not so good untuned tables... IT DRIVES !!!!! For the spark only, I did my wiring with caution, and it started and worked first time no worries. For the full MS, well adding fuel to spark, did the same, and started on first crank... ok, then stalled because of the tune not good yet, but with a few seconds of throttle, it starts when cold and when warm, it starts on the first crank !!! So with MS1 and the help from the knowledgeable peeps in this forum, honestly, it CAN be done... then comes the tuning... but I believe tuning any kind of ECU requires fiddling settings and knowledge !!! Cheers Erik.
  13. It's me again About the AFR Target table, take into consideration Bowie's comments, and the fact that I use more the low revs than the 4k+, I still wanted to have a smooth transition from idle to low/mid rpm as Quagmire says, so I tried to make an average of all this below. What do you think about this one then for my next runs ? Thank you all ! Cheers Erik.
  14. Hi MS grown ups thank you all for your feedback. Honestly, I really do not have near enough knowhow / knowledge to tune without autotune... for now. On next available run, I will try this latest spark map, thanks Ian. As to AFR targets, I quite understand what you mean Bowie, and might then reconsider my AFR target table by merging the 800/1200 into a 1000 rpm column, and add another column at 3500 rpm, as I reckon I rarely go beyond 4000 rpm... so my most used range is 1000-4000 and this way, I would have 7 col out of 8 in the my common running range... As to the idle itself, for the moment, I have found a VE value for my idle cells, so indeed won't let autotune change my idle point cells... and also found out that in autotune, you could select these cells, and select a lock function, so autotune will not modify them. That's neat !! Bowie, indeed, if you could dig out your buried treasure laptop, I am still please definitely interested by your latest happy running msq and load compensation strategy ... so I would definitely cheat on it . Thank you so much in advance. This Sunday is father's day here (and I believe in UK too), so no tuning this weekend... rather next one, so in the meantime, I am still very happy to receive every valuable feedback and ideas from my master MSer around here Thank you again, have a nice weekend, and happy father's day to who is concerned. Cheers Erik.
  15. Hi gents, thank your for your feedback... yet, designing new afr maps and spark maps is way beyond my engine mechanics knowledge Yet, I tried to understand what you mean, and tried to dial in a new AFR TARGET table from your suggestion and from all the rover V8 AFR target tables I have gathered here and there (mine original above was from one of Bowie's post ). Anyhow, what do you think about this one then ? Does it seem worth a try ?? I tried to leave it a bit richer on the low rpm and near my idle point... might need a little leaning maybe around cruise area when I will know where it is !!!!! Ian, as to the spark map... a bit of the same story, I kind of understand what you mean, but I have not enough engine mechanics background to be able to draw a table by myself... and I am afraid to play with timing as I have read too much warning about too much advance being harmful... so a bit nervous on which values to input. So tried to do as you suggest, generated a map from your link, and compared it with various spark maps gathered for rover V8 on LR4x4, and mainly softening this a little because of the above . Keep in mind my engine is a 3.9 serpentine LOW COMP 8.13:1 or 8.31:1 (I do not remember the exact number, but under 9), no cats. Therefore, what would you think about this one spark map for a try (based on one from Nigel from a post somewhere...) ??? Please tell me if ok or where to modify... Thank you all very much for your support, every input is highly appreciated Cheers Erik.
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