tarmacshredder

Progress, having had he ecu off to picture the inside, I have once again checked the wiring for the lambda sensor and traced it back to the ecu. I have reconnected the lambda sensor wiring to the db37 plug, put the ecu back in and then fired it up. Voltage on the lambda was showing 0.20volts before start up and after 40seconds or so the voltage rose to 0.69-0.71volts. Thats the good news, I am guessing a bad connection in the lambda plug but not really sure why it is now working and wasn't before. I still have the residual voltage and what I don't know is wether the 0.69-0.71volts is correct or whether that is ontop of the 0.20volts I had before. Also it is now not running on all cylinders having lost 1 or 2 on the drivers side bank I think, it is popping and fluttering in the exhaust header on the drivers side, the lambda is on the passengerside bank. All good fun! Glenn

Yes there are 4 coil drivers an inline fuse and an earth all on the lid, I will try again to take some more pictures but the components are so small it is very difficult to focus. Glenn

It is now runing edis8, "all to do with the coil drivers which arent being used" they are just still in the box switched off and appropriate jumpers moved for Edis. Glenn

I have taken some pictures of the board, the wires which run out of sight, the large black ones and the thin purple, pink, brown and grey are all to do with the coil drivers which arent being used. MAP sensor connected to ECU and back of plenium, have had this disconnected before and it was alot worse then! lol Glenn

Unfortunately I haven't got access to another ecu so cannot try that to see if the problem is related to the vehicle or the ecu. (Again my plea for someone local to give me a hand). The db37 plug is wired and setup the same as in the megasquirt manual for a MS1 version3 so that it can be swapped and interchanged onto another vehicle, I also have a db15 plug that has the additional mods wired to (fan switching, dual table switching and the original direct coil drivers, non of which are connected). As for tuning without the lambda/megatune I am nervous, it is obvious that it is over fuelling at the moment due to the smell and consumption etc. If I drop the required fuelling overall it runs rough and starts to lump about, I can drop the individual cells on the fuel table and make no noticeable difference to the engine note but I am conscious that I don't want to go the other way and be running lean as the 4.6 is then going to have all kinds of other problems that are going to be even more expensive to fix. I can try with the multimeter attached to the lambda but I am only going to get it to hit certain cells and then there is going to be a lot of thumb in the dark calculations to try and get the fuelling table to look something like, and the whole idea of the megatune is so that you can log and tune accurately so that the ecu is matched perfectly to your engine. Seams odd that I appear to be the only person in Worcestershire and Warwickshire that runs megasquirt on there Rover V8! I am not sure if that makes me feel privileged or depressed! lol Glenn

It is not for a want of trying to workout why there is a residual voltage on the lambda but I have a V3.57 board which is surface mounted and I cannot workout why I have a problem with the circuit. I am pritty certain the fault occured after the mod for Edis8. The mod for Edis8 isn't in the megasquirt manual for the V3.57 board so I got the information from Diyautotune in the sates that sells these surface mount ecus and they carry out the mod for customers there. I have emailed them with the problem I have but they didn't have a solution to the residual voltage on the lambda circuit. The company that supplied the ecu is no longer trading and it is well over a year old. My request for someone local that has a knowledge on megasquirt, is so I can do exactly that swap over the ecu and see if there vehicle has the same residual current but also for them to have a look and hopefully see something stupid that I have done that is so blatantly obvious to them but I cannot see. I like your suggestion of unpluging the pwm valve and see if it makes any difference when starting as I haven't tried that and no one has suggested it before. Glenn

Hi Bowie69 and thanks for the reply. I started the Landy this weekend for the first time since the snow, turned key and fired up straight away, it stumbles, snorts and lumps around for about 20 seconds and then ran at idle. All eight cylinders are running fine,you can blip the throttle and revs freely. TPS was set again since the log and now appears to be giving values similar to what I have read on the forum, so I dont think thats a problem. msq is one that nige put on. My big problem is I cannot tune with the lambda as I have a residual voltage (shown on megatune) that fluctuates even with the lambda sensor disconnected from the ecu. When the lambda sensor is connected to the ecu I get the same residual voltage. I have had the loom off the landy on about 6 different occasions and have pinned everything out and checked resistance for good connections and no cross feeding. I have sensor values on megatune that I would expect and look quite good, but then this is the problem, I have looked and looked and tested and tested and I am still no further forward than I was 12 months ago. Zoltan was able to put a wideband lambda on and tune the idle as it was massively rich, we were also able to adjust the spark advance at the bottom of the rev range which cured the pulling way problems that i was experiencing. I haven't got anyone to help as the person that was helping hasn't helped for over 12 months and has run away as they too cannot see whats up. I have run it with a timming gun in the past but when your on your own you run out of hands to test and watch everything at the sametime, this is why I am desperate to find someone that can help me locally as I dare not run the landy and distance due to fear of damaging it. Glenn

As you can see no reply to my post, does no one in the midlands run megasquirt on there Land Rovers or Range Rovers? I have money here to pay someone if they can sort it out. Glenn

Hi all, quick update as I haven't posted for a while as I haven't got any further as I have parked the land rover up and ignored it as I had got fed up of hitting my head on a wall. I did get some help from Zoltan who put a wide band lambda on and we tuned the idle so that we were somewhere near and not massively over fueling, with his help we also moved the ignition advance so that when trying to pull away it didn't stall everytime and now will pickup and move off without any issues. It was used last in the snow and was nice to use it again we got maybe 9mpg max which was crippling and the smell of fuel burnt your throat and stung your eyes after a bit but it didn't get stuck and although the starter was a little lazy at below -10 it started with the 3 attempts which I have listed before with out fail. The last day of the snow I cracked the screen on a snow laded branch that was stuck out of the hedge and it hasn't moved since. I am looking for some local help, is there no one in the warwickshire/worcestershire area that can give me a hand and try and workout whats up as I am fedup with it. Glenn

The log was done after the land rover was parked for 2-3 hours so water temp wouldn't have been right down, it was after 8pm in the evening so the air temp would have been cool and was slightly raining. The temp on the dash rose and held at operting temp and the guage on megatune was showing in the 80's, the temp rises quickly then maintains so I would be surprised if the stat wasn't operating properly I am surprised the datalog shows the temp so low. The landy sounds fine at idle except for a bit lumpy. when it is cold it sounds as though it has a slight knock at idle but smoother, when warm this knock goes and is more lumpy. when cruising at constant throttle ok. when you go on or off throttle you have this trough in rpm when it goes down then backup and it will then splutter and cough at the bottom of the trough (it is almost as though you loose 1/2 the cylinders), if you are too savage with the throttle it will try to stall, this is there all the time but more noticable/worse when it is cold. You cannot pick the revs up from idle without this dip in rpm and it stumbling. This can be quite frightening as you start to pull out of a junction and it tries to stop, or you are in the middle of the junction without any power. Also when in traffic it is spluttering and buggering about as you crack the throttle just open to ease it along as you are not able to hold the throttle in one position due to the low speed. You cannot start the landy from cold without it starting then stopping, 2nd time start then revs drop stumble then stall or pick backup and away she goes,it will stall 2-3 times from cold depending on how cold it is, leave to warm up a few seconds then rev it a couple of times through the stumble area to help with the dip in revs then off you go. When warm starts everytime doesn't stall. The datalog shoulld have the 02 sensor switched off as it wasn't working which is how I have been running prior to the o2 sensor being added, interesting it is showing 0volts for the 02 sensor in the log when it is displaying this residual volts on the guage. My helper isn't coming today now and as it is torrential rain here it isn't going to get looked at today, will have to be later in the week when the weather is better. But suggestions on what to do and what to look at then greatfully received. Glenn

Thanks John, have emailed it through. Glenn

I have tried to upload the latest log that I have but it has come up that file is too large to upload. Glenn

I think it is right to question the vac on the fuel reg and what difference it would make as I hadn't considered it could be done either way, I assumed as the 3.9 had one it needed to be connected. All suggestions are helpful as I can then try to rule out what is up and hopefully others will be able to read the information and avoid or correct there installs with the help and advice offered. Glenn

When I first set up the land rover I was running bosch water temp and air temp from the alfa twin spark engines, have dozens of them on the shelf. I did the easy therm calcs and updated the s19 file. When I couldn't get it to run properly I then put in a Rover v8 water temp sensor and bought the air temp sensor that Nige gave me the part number for. After installing these I then put the S19 file in for these sensors. Then Nige tested ecu and put on the firmware 029v and the msq for the same sensors that I had been told to install, so I believe they are correct as I have put in exactly what I was told to, but I will dig out the box with the part numbers on later. Tomorrow I will check the VR sensor and toothed arrangement and photograph so all can see. I am not getting lots of resets or spikes of the ecu, like some posts I have read that have problems with the earths and sensors etc, I did 5 miles the otherday and as I pulled into the drive I got a reset which I think was the usb lead moving slightly as the laptop moved, I did the 5 miles the otherway without any. Glenn

Here goes with some answers to the questions so far, The 029v file is the one that Nige put on along with a know good msq file. The land Rover before this was already running the Rover V8 Coolant temp sensor and the correct air temp sensor, so these do not need changing and so no easytherm calcs need to be done. The Vacum hose comes off the back of the plenum next to where the idle control valve used to be and then has a T piece, one going to the fuel reg and the other to the ECU. The ECU was moded for EDIS as per emails and detailed instructions from I think diyautotune in the states, it has also run Niges Land Rover perfectly with this mod carried out. The Tacho output, fan switching, and dual table switching are not connected as I was trying to get the basics right and then add on the more complicated bits after. I can try running the lambda on the multimeter on Sunday as I am having a go on the Landy then. I will also recheck the position of the vr sensor to the toothed wheel and check again that it isn't 180 degrees out, I have in the past marked all 4 spark positions A,B,C,D and checked with a timing gun they were firing at the correct postion. So I dont have to read through everything again how many degrees BTDC should it be firing at idle on No1? I will also try changing the warmup enrichment table to 100% on sunday to see if it will start and run. I will then also post a screen shot of the megatune page so that everyone can see what it is doing and whether it looks right. Glenn

Here goes from the start, I have a Land Rover 110 with a 4.6 V8 Serpentine with a ZF Auto. When I first put the v8 in after rebuilding ,I set it up with a 4 Barrel Edelbrock/Webber carb. It ran very well, but it only did 10mpg was docile unless you floored it, fuel injection would make it sharper, cleaner and more economical, that was the theory and motivation. After reading the A-Z Megasquirting saga guide and doing some research I started making a pile of parts to convert the landy. I also had a friend that was thinking of converting there 90 v8 to megasquirt so we set about doing mine. He works in the automotive electronics industry so with his electronic skills and me with my practical mechanical skills and all the help offered on the forum then we should have it cracked! Once mine was up and running, then we would do his. (He hasn’t converted his to Megasquirt!) I had a 3.9 V8 plenum/injectors and wiring loom from a range rover circa 1991 with lambda sensor input. I sourced the bosch pwm valve, coil packs I had from a couple of engine swaps on zetecs (later style). I had a number of alfa twin spark vr sensors made by bosch so used one of those (in 10 years never had one fail). I emailed John and said what ecu I wanted, and wanted switching for dual tables to run lpg injection, fan switching and tacho output. After a month no response and by this stage I had removed the inlet and carb off the landy. Spoke to www.diyefi.co.uk they built me an ecu to spec but recommended to go direct coil drive as that was the way forward and no one now was messing about with Edis. Having a quick look round most of the other ms forums and sellers were also pushing direct coil drivers. Odered ecu, it arrived and looked good, spent a day cutting out the stuff not required on the 3.9 loom and rewired to the DB37 plug, plus a 15pin plug that controlled the coil packs direct. Bolted 3.9 plenum/injection to the 4.6, added the coil packs, built a vr sensor bracket and used the transit toothed wheel on the crank pulley. Got a map off Nige but wouldn’t go onto the ecu without an error, found that the ecu had the latest version of the firmware on. John sent me a copy of the tried and tested which I put on and then Niges map. Did easy therm calcs for sensors and then we were ready for starting. It coughed spluttered and didn’t run for more than a few seconds, you could get it to run it you held the throttle part open. After months of trying and going through everything couldn’t get it any better. Stripped off the megasquirt loom and plugged on another 3.9 loom with a cux14 ecu. Turned key started instantly and cleared itself and ran beautifully. Went back to megasquirt, fired up and ran for a few seconds then wouldn’t run at all. John and bbc sent me some different settings to try and it was better but wouldn’t run properly. In desperation I then decided to take ½ the system out of the equation and to just run fuel and run the ignition with the distributor. Megasquirt is supposed to be able to do this, changed the settings to allow this and it ran a bit better than before but not right, sometimes it would start and run some times not, no logic but very frustrating. About this time I changed the sensors to the GM temp sensor and rover v8 water temp sensor. Changed the details on the ecu and no better. After people yelling at me to ditch the coil direct drivers I then converted to Edis8. Everyone said you will plug it in and it will start, well it didn’t it was not a lot better than before. At this point I had long had enough, I had a vehicle that wasn’t usable and had cost a lot of money in materials and road tax and insurance so sit stationary no mind the time and effort. Nige kindly agreed to test the ecu, I sent off to him and he reflashed the firmware, and put his map on. His landy started and ran, quite good I believe. He then put on a known good map and sent to me. I bolted onto the landy. It started on all 8 cylinders and sounded sweat for 2-4 seconds then stopped. It did this for a little longer the second time before stopping. On the third attempt it started, ran, stumbled, then picked up and sounded not too bad. Result land rover finally running on megasquirt only warm up table to fine tune and tuning to do! It still does this start and stop performance but is better when the weather is warmer. It also starts fine when warm. There is a trough when you squeeze the throttle open when the revs drop, engine stumbles then picks up and will then rev cleanly. Earlier in the saga I did try to get some lambda sensor readings and later discovered I was using the wrong sensors, did start off with 0 volts rose to 0.5 volts then dropped off to 0 again when the engine was up to temp. Now I have the residual volts and no changed when the sensor is plugged in and the engine gets warm. I have had the complete engine loom off the land rover on more than one occasion and tested every pin from the db37 plug to the sensors and also for cross feed to every other sensor/plug etc. I am going to try and have another look at the land rover this weekend with my friend to see if we can see anything that we have over looked and again check and write down all the wiring. Now I havn’t done any exact calculations but at the moment I estimate on my recent trips that 15litres of fuel will get you 30 miles at best and at no point have I been over 50 miles an hour so not been ragging it. So now I have a land rover that starts and runs after 2-3 attempts, it sounds almost as though it is knocking when cold, if you touch the throttle it bogs and splutters before picking up sometimes with a cough and splutter in the exhaust, if allowed to idle for a 20-30 seconds then you can drive off if you are gentle with the throttle to savage and it will bog and cough splutter and bang. When warm it sounds ok, but still has the poor throttle response, with fuel consumption on a 5mile trip that you can see how much the fuel gauge has moved. I don’t want to use my vehicle long term with out a lambda sensor working as I do not want holes in my pistons or moving liners, I want to be able to tune my land rover for the optimum that’s why I have gone for a stand alone fuel injection management and not just a it will do attitude. If I wanted a bucket to poor fuel into my engine I would and could have reverted back to the carb but unfortunately I have sold it along with the manifold. Glenn

Hi bobtail84, Thank you for your suggestion and I agree black not being earth has confuesed a number of people in the past in the thread, however without the input signal wire from the lambda sensor connected to the DB37 plug and lambda not plugged in I have a residual voltage on the guage "front bank o2 volts" on megatune, so I dont believe it cannot be the lambda sensor itself or the wiring to it as it is not plugged in. Thank you Nige for your input, I will write up exactly what I have done so far and how, but this is going to take more than a couple of mins as I have now been trying to get the landy to work on megasquirt for nearly 2 years so when I have done that I will post again. Glenn

Hi John, I am using megatune 2.25, I have the guage for front bank o2 sensor volts up which is where I am getting the readings from. When I was trying to get the lambda sensor to run before on the land rover sensors it started off at 0 volts. It is possible that it is a configuration glitch as nige reflashed the ecu when he tested and tried with his map on before puting the original 4.6 map back on. This is the first time since then that I have put up the o2 volts display, I cannot remember having the option before of being able to have front and rear but it was a long time ago so that could be my memory. I open up megatune in ms extra 029V as my project landy one became corrupt, well over a year ago and wouldn't open up and display anything. Glenn

Hi All, I am after some more help/advice on my landy, I did get it to run last Feb and did spend sometime in March trying to get the warmup cycle better each time I ran it but just didn't find time to get the lambda sensor welded in the exhaust, and couldn't use it as it was all over the place with the fueling. I am now needing to use it, the fuel comsumption is savage and I don't like the way it runs, it sounds too far advanced sometimes and too far retarded at others. This last weekend I have got the lambda in and wired up, first thing I thought was odd was megatune was showing 0.27 Volts this didn't change with the engine running but flickered between 0.25-0.27volts, so disconnected the lambda sensor and same reading, disconnected the wire input into the db37plug and still the same, the ego for the rear bank is reading 0 volts which is what I was expecting to see for the front bank, anyone got any ideas why I could have this and what to do/try? Many thanks Glenn

Update time as I haven't posted for a while. Since my last post I sent my ecu to Nige who reinstalled the firmware and put his map on and tried on his landy. To my amazement it fired up and ran straight away, went all the way through the warmup sequence and no issues so that blew my idea out of the water that there was something wrong inside the ecu. He then put my map back on and the his landy started and ran although a bit rough as was expected with Nige's V8 monster. So as I have had it running on the Lucas with all the same injectors, fuel rail it rulled that out, using the same throttle tps so rulled that out so I thought must be something to do with the VR sensor or wiring. Got another length of cable and was ready to tackle with soldering iron. Plugged ecu back in, turned key and after 2-3 cranks engine fired up ran on all 8 for 2-3 seconds then stopped. Turned key again engine started and ran for 4-5 seconds then stopped. Turned key and engine started and ran bit lump and very low rpm. As it warmed up the rpm increased and it got smoother. Whilst warming up very difficult to pickup the revs with the accelerator, it would stumble and splutter and revs drop. Once warm the pickup was much better but still a noticable dip when initially pressing the pedal. Next lowered the rpm a bit on the throttle body by reducing the throttle stop. tweaked the spark trim to try to find the optimum running by ear. Drained engine oil and large quantity of petrol that was in sump from all the previous months worth of tring to get it to run, refilled engine oil. started again no problem when warm, starts without doing the 2-3 cranks first, adjusted the fuel table cells that it was moving around as per megasquirt manual to lower the map pressure at idle to optimise. Adjusted throttle stop again. So I now have a land rover that starts but I have done nothing different to a month ago when I last tried to get it to start, I have had it running and wiggled and pulled on wires with no avail trying to get it to stop. When cold it does the 2 second run, 4-5 second run etc. so I still have issues with the warmup, has anyone else had the same problems? although I have tried altering the values in the warmup table what advice do you have? Lastly well done to James I wish all that information was in one place when I started and in a format that is so usable and easy to find. Glenn

I have calibrated the throttle in megatune, also when you press the pedal more than 3/4 down it comes up as flood clear in the tabs at the bottom of megatune so that would appear to be working. Also my wide open throttle value is about 255 cannot remember off the top of my head the closed position value. Glenn

Hi John and BBC, I am going to try the Vr sensor wires the other way round but then it did run last year though rough. Nige has run the ecu on his so the mods to the ecu for the edis should be fine, the mods to the wiring I have made were feed to the module, pip and saw to the db37 plug pins 24 and 36. Earth to the other ecu earths and coil driver outputs to the existing wiring that I already had inplace for the direct coil drive setup. The Ignition switched live I have tested in the past and it is continuous with cranking but will double check that it is when you switch off the starter. I am going to try a different VR sensor and VR sensor cable to see if this changes things. Any other suggestions greatly received. Many thanks Glenn

Update on my Landy as I haven't posted for a while as although I have been doing various bits to it I haven't got it going yet. The main update is that I have moded the ecu so that it is now running Edis (Everyone seamed to thing that this would be the turning point and it would just run!). A big thank you to Nige as this has then allowed me to send to Nige who has very kindly tried the ecu on his hybrid and much to my amazement it has started and run fine, with everything as it should.So it must be something that I have done wrong for it not to be running on mine! so suggestions on a postcard as they say, as to what I have not got right. With the Edis on it will crank 2-3 times then fires and runs for 2-3 seconds and the first couple of times ran on all 8 cylinders then stops. If you touch the throttle it will not start and it will not run/rev. It always used to when it did run/cough into life before so this is abit odd. After it has tried to start each subsequent time of turning the key, cranking firing running for 2-3 seconds it drops the number of cylinders trying to run untill it wont start and run at all. Removing the plugs cleaning and igniting the fuel in the bores helps as it appears to be flooding. Have tried dropping the values in the warmup wizzard but doesn't appear to help. I have a modded 3.9 loom which is quite simple to adapt anyone had similar problems on a 3.9 loom they have modded? As it ran on the Lucas a month ago that sort of rules out the fuel side with regards to injectors and pressure relief valve as they haven't been touched. Vr would seam to be my next to try, I have already checked and checked the missing tooth and checked that tdc is at tdc on my pulley, checked the air gap etc. what else could I have got wrong? All ideas greatly received Many thanks Glenn

Hi Teslo, i am in a simlar situation in that I couldn't get my landy to run properly with the coil packs but I was trying to run direct coil drive. You can put the distributor back on and run as the vehicle coil and distributor was originally with the fly lead between coil and distributor module and ignition feed to positive side of coil. As Evo828 said the ecu would have to be moded if it was originally setup for Edis as the megasquirt would be receiving the crank rpm signal from the Edis. If you have now the Vr sensor wired to the megasquirt and the relevant mods made in the ecu then there are 2 potentiometers to adjust to clean up the signal. My Ecu is setup like this as I have no Edis module attached,here is the link to the megasquirt manual page that tells you how to tune the VR sensor. http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/vradjust.htm If your rpm signal is so erratic check the VR sensor gap is continuous all the way round on each tooth as the crank is rotated by hand. Check the wires back from the VR sensor and route away from anything that is likely to cause interferrance. Check that you have the plugs wired correctly on to the coil packs and that you have the right plug leads coming off each coil pack as it is easy to get them wrong. You can mark the crank with the timing letters for the coils A,B,C,D and then at cranking speads with a timing gun check that each ignition lead is firing on the correct letter. Hope yours doesn't take as long as mine is to get to run! lol Glenn

Thank you everyone for the help and input, I will try to have another look at it today but it might have to be tomorrow as I am going to be short of time and daylight today. In response to BBC I have a PWM idle valve so will blank that off and check and adjust the throttle butterfly stop. Do I also use this to adjust the idle once it has starting to get warmer? What about the air bypass idle adjustment screw should I wind this in or leave it where it is (3.9 plenum)? I thought I would be adjusting this but having read Nige's post recently on tuning the PWM I am now not sure! I will change the figures in the VE table but there doesn't appear to be very much difference between the table I am running and the one posted, but this could well be enough. I have a MAP figure I think yesterday of about 67kpa and I had a very plausable IAT temp which did rise a couple of degrees but due to the temperature and it being mounted into a rubber hose I didn't suffer from too much heat soak. Thinking about the Idle valve I am suspecting I am getting too much air though the idle valve as there is a noticable hiss of air, this would give me the very lean exhaust sound and the lack of throttle response I think? I have emailed Nige a copy of the data log which is only short but does show it running. I had a good look at all the connectors on the loom when I had it off and checked it all, I have had problems with the pins in the plugs on other vehicles,the worst I had was on a 205 1.9 GTI I had just done an engine rebuild on,came to start and it didn't want to know. After many hours of checking everything found one of the pins in the airflow meter plug had pushed out the back of the connector into the rubber cover behind when being plugged on.(aaaahhhh) At the moment I have the 02 sensor disconnected and the 02 correction set to 0% as I have the wrong 02 sensor in the pipe and haven't had a min to swop this over, I will obviously need this for when I start to tune but at the moment it wont idle no mind move, so I need to sort that first. Many thanks Glenn