elbekko
-
Posts
5,330 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
45
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Gallery
Blogs
Posts posted by elbekko
-
-
2 hours ago, landroversforever said:
That's obviously dependent on how far into the bumper the chassis legs extend.
You can see that here:
On 5/15/2023 at 10:30 PM, elbekko said:
-
2 hours ago, steve200TDi said:
For recovery points you could ad some round bar and bend it in a loop, then welded it to the 5mm plate down each side for maximum strength. his is what I did on my winch bumper.
I've annotated your drawing here:
That looks pretty good. And smart to add it to the outside plates, so a double-line pull would load both plates.
Also in line with my first thought of extending those plates out through the front plate to form a ring, but I think round bar will work and look better. -
1 hour ago, miketomcat said:
I don't think there's any problem with feet forward especially if that lower guard is removable giving good access to the winch.
Mike
Realistically the bumper will have to come off to get to the winch. But that's no huge issue, I think
-
1 hour ago, Daan said:
I think 3 mm could work, granted a flat 3 mm plate does not do much for you, but once you give it decent returns top and bottom, you have a channel that is plenty strong. My rear winch mount is just a folded channel of 3mm with the winch bolted on top of this, feet down. Lots of holes drilled into it, around 8 kg.
All you need to do is to have an as direct line of force from the winch mounting points to the chassis. The rest is just hanging around it for show.
Thanks for confirming my initial thinking. And I think with this design that line of force is about as direct as it can get.
The 5mm cradle is probably a good tradeoff in strength vs weight, and allows me to make the rest of the bumper out of thinner material.Speed holes aren't the worst idea, might be worth putting some in the bottom plate to reduce weight. And would help with drainage.
1 hour ago, Daan said:The bash plate, I would remove the slots, and just have some holes at the bottom for drainage. What has worked for me is to have a bit of box section on top of the bottom edge with a stay going upwards to the chassis to stop it bending in the middle.
Part of the radiator is behind there, and without the slots too much airflow would be blocked. The stock bumper has slots there as well, for that reason.
-
1 hour ago, Bowie69 said:
Can you not rotate the gearbox and therefore move the freespool?
That's what I did to get it in a good position for feet-forward. But not sure how well that'd work feet-down. The standard position it with the freespool straight up, and then it'd go straight into the body/grille. All solvable, but this way it actually comes out quite neatly just in front of the body line.
-
1
-
-
31 minutes ago, miketomcat said:
I think V2 should work out fine. I can't see in the picture but does the winch mount have a return on top and bottom edges? Mine had a return at the front (the fairlead was bolted through it) but the back (by the radiator) didn't this is where it bent, once I welded a small (about 1") return on it never moved again.
Mike
That's a good idea, I could pop a piece of angle over the back.
9 hours ago, landroversforever said:If it's any help, one of my plans if I use the ARB on the build is to convert it into a feet down mounting for the winch so I can still use my fancy fairleads. I'm not worried about making that strong enough. with ribs etc to make it behave like a much thicker piece of material.
I was under the impression that feet-forward would be easier to make stronger, lightly. Hence why that was my original design decision. Feet down could definitely work, but would make accessing the freespool a little bit harder, as it's popping up in a perfect spot right now.
-
1 minute ago, landroversforever said:
Is there a reason you're going feet forward with the winch?
In my mind that seems the stronger direction for all the forces involved. Feet down you're trying to twist the bottom plate into a pretzel between the chassis legs.
But I'm no engineer
-
1
-
-
Made another iteration, with the cradle as one piece of 5mm, and outer chassis plates 5mm as well. The rest is 3mm.
This brought the estimated weight down to 33kg, and 3kg for the skid plate (also from 3mm).That seems a little bit more reasonable. And should be sturdier too.
13 minutes ago, landroversforever said:Boxing in the back of it, or even just lips, will massively stiffen up the wings.
Boxing in the lips is a good idea, not sure how easy that'll be to do. One side has the windshield washer reservoir there...
19 minutes ago, landroversforever said:3mm probably isn't stiff enough for a winch of that style, the rely too much on the mounting staying rigid and flat or they jam up.
That's a good point, and a good reason for the 5mm cradle. It'll also be welded along the side plates to the top and bottom plate, which should stiffen things up substantially.
I've also been playing with the idea of supporting the winch on the bottom and top plate using some tabs that go to the tie bars. That would remove even more twist from the system, I think.
13 minutes ago, landroversforever said:For the flattening of those curved pieces for cutting.... how have you drawn them? In Catia I'd do that as a surface and use the sheet metal workbench to recognise that and then make it up to the metal thickness. Does that make sense? They need to be recognised as sheet metal components to be able to be spat out.
I managed to find it in Fusion now - a lofted flange. In the previous iteration I modelled it as a solid and converted to sheet metal, but it didn't want to make a flat pattern from that.
Now it does want to, which is good.15 minutes ago, landroversforever said:First thoughts on weight.... that sounds heavy for what is a pretty 'small' bumper. My Defender ARB is 44.2Kg and my First Four Tubular one 21Kg.
I would think this is probably fairly similar in size and design to the ARB (but without the wings). Tubular ones are usually lighter, yes, but also fugly on a P38...
For the record, with some dimensions:
-
3
-
-
I'll see if I can knock out a design for that tonight, shouldn't be too difficult.
Any feedback on recovery points? I see on your pictures you had small rings, was that good or would you have preferred something else?
-
2 hours ago, miketomcat said:
Personally I don't think 3mm is enough for the winch mount unless beefed up.
Even with feet forward? It should minimise the twisting forces you get with feet down, and is stiffened up by the 5mm plates top and bottom.
But yes, it's a concern. Hence why I'm thinking of making the winch cradle a single, bent piece of 5mm, and then 3mm for the wings.Thinking, maybe it would be better to have the top and bottom plates 3mm, and the front plate 5mm? Would probably reduce the weight a bit as well.
Or everything 3mm except for the winch U cradle at 5mm. Then I don't have to try and bend 5mm plate for the curved corners.-
1
-
-
I've been thinking about getting a winch bumper for my P38 for a while. Nothing out there really speaks to me. Either it's ugly or ludicrously expensive.
I want something that follows the stock bumper and body lines as closely as possible, and is sturdy but doesn't weigh more than the moon.I bought this winch a while back: VEVOR 13.5k winch
It appears to be surprisingly decent quality. I've had the gearbox open to clock the freespool lever, and everything inside looks good. Decent grease in there too, although I'll probably replace that anyway.
The only thing I might change (eventually) is the solenoid, as it's a bit too chinese to my liking.
Overall, it seemed very much worth it for the price.So, onto the design. I've been battling Fusion 360, but I think I'm starting to get sort of used to it.
The top, bottom and chassis plates are 5mm, the front plate is 3mm. The idea is to use S355 for some extra strength.
Integrated skidplate/radiator protector which bolts to the front chassis crossmember.
Winch goes feet forward, pulling force should be pretty well in line with the bolts through the chassis.
Some stiffening ribs can probably be added in the side wings here and there.
Fusion estimates the bumper is around 42kg like this, which I think is fairly in line with bumpers like this? Maybe a little more than I would've liked. But doesn't seem any worse than the FirstFour bumper I had on my RRC, that had its own gravitational field.The winch is modelled very roughly, but should be close enough for the purpose.
My main points I'd like feedback on:
* Will the 3mm front plate be enough to take the forces from the winch? Or should I maybe more go for a "cradle" of 5mm plate that is a U bent up between the chassis rails, and then skin the remainder in 3mm?
* How hard will it be to bend 3mm plate around that curve? My idea is to weld and hammer, but not sure how well that'll work, especially with S355?
* How do I get Fusion to give me a flat pattern for the whole front plate, including the curves? It refuses to see it as a bend, so won't put it into a DXF correctly. Worst case I need to remodel it somewhere to get it cut out.
* Not sure how/where to add recovery points yet. In between the chassis plates would probably be best, but can't really decide what I want. My first thought was to extend the chassis plate through the bumper as an eye, but that's then only 5mm plate, and won't be easy to make and make look good.Feedback and thoughts very welcome
A dump of pictures. The blue component is the body line. The little cylinder coming out at an angle is the freespool lever (clockable per 30ish degrees).
-
2
-
-
2 hours ago, Ed Poore said:
He's fine.
Sent him a text and just had a reply back. Just very busy with work and kitchen, just about managing to find time to sleep. Said normal service should be resumed shortly.
Very glad to hear. Thanks for checking in!
-
On 5/5/2023 at 9:23 AM, Wytze said:
Are you allright, Stephen? Or working so hard that you forget to post😇
I'm starting to wonder as well. Hopefully just busy with work?
His profile says last visit on the 30th of april...-
1
-
-
10 hours ago, geoffbeaumont said:
Haven't priced it up yet, but think it should work out more realistic.
There's a company near me that specialises in plates like that. They have a decent stock of lightly damaged / returned plates, at less than half price. I grabbed some of those when I made a roof for the dog shed.
Was it overkill the give the dog shed roof 6cm of insulation? Yes, but the price was right
You might have similar companies close to you.
-
1
-
1
-
-
Looking very good!
-
Metal roofing sheets would be my call. Get some with insulation attached to them to reduce noise and have some insulation in the shed as well.
-
I'll come get it for £100
Sad day indeed. Hopefully you find a good way to sell it.
-
The noise in the speakers would point to ground issues.
The engine being disabled shouldn't be due to the fob, if the immobiliser is disabled in the BeCM (my fob hasn't worked for years). What could be is that the communication between the BeCM and the ECM isn't always working, again pointing towards potential ground issues.
-
1 hour ago, Maverik said:
yeah you can do what you said, you just need to manage the "grouping" of components - I wouldn't write it off.
Good to know, I'll check it out again.
-
2 hours ago, Maverik said:
not sure what you mean by parametric
When you draw a square with a hole in the center, and you change the size of the box, it should still be in the center. Simple explanation, but that carries across sketches, features and bodies.
As far as I've found when using SketchUp, it just draws things where you tell it to, but links nothing together.
2 hours ago, miketomcat said:The wife has been using nanoCAD the free version is 2D only but the subscribed (relatively cheap from memory, especially compared to AutoCAD) does 3D I believe. She's really impressed with it her words were it works just like AutoCAD, yes there are some differences but she just got on an used it rather than needing tutorial's to draw a square.
Mike
I'll check it out, thanks. Looks alright at first glance, except for the cost for anyone other than students.
-
1
-
-
Yeah, no use spending a lot of money on something that'll equally die when falling constantly. Because the universal truth to a light is that it's always exactly where you also need to be.
-
Many years ago I taught myself Solidworks on a less-than-legal version, and I loved using it. A couple of years ago I picked up Fusion 360 as they have a free version for hobbyists.
I've been trying to get along with it, but it just infuriates me constantly. The history is just one massive jumble of things, the joints never want to work, sketch constraints would rather change the meaning of a measurement than actually, you know, move something closer by...
It's probably just me. Maybe I need to learn it. But yesterday I saw that Solidworks now offers a hobbyist licence for €100/year. I'm just not sure it's worth it, but I've spent more to not be infuriated by something.
Has anyone tried the hobbyist licence of Solidworks? Does it do everything you need it to?Opinions? Alternatives (must be parametric, I can't stand "stupid" CAD software like SketchUp)? I tried OnShape once when it came out, but it seemed very limited, sadly.
-
1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said:
I don't think I'd trust it for accurate measurements but for visualising a thing in a space it looks brilliant.
I had a roofer over a few years ago, he just popped out his phone and used an AR measuring app to make an estimate. No need to bother with a tape measure if that is close enough.
-
As long as they don't give you a list of previous owners, GDPR doesn't come into this at all.
P38 winch bumper build
in Tools and Fabrication
Posted
That's a good point, it would probably be wise to put another slot in it somewhere so I can see the drum.