elbekko

March 5

28 minutes ago, De Ranged said:

In just this bike I have 4 days of measuring and modeling and I'm only 2/3rds done.... unfortunatly alot of what I do is road going stuff and to get pre-build approval from the authorities you need drawings.... so I'm spending alot of time on each project just modeling components etc.... my justification was if I worked the 4 days its paid for lol

Yeah, precisely this is why I ordered a scanner. It should be delivered today, might get to try it out on the car soon.

March 4

10 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Can you wind out the throttle cable a bit like on an RRC? If so be worth trying to get it to start with the throttle open, by adjusting the req fuel/VE table.

I'm surprised you are struggling with this, normally if everything mechanical is right then the engine will at least fire and rev up even if not stay idling.

I know, it's like the anti-megasquirt-installation. Normally they don't want to idle, this one wants to do nothing but.

1 minute ago, Bowie69 said:

Also.... *IF* you have a plug lead in the wrong place then it can fire back through the inlet when you open the throttle, enough to stall an engine that is not quite happy already.

The only popping we've ever heard was at the first start attempt, so I doubt it's backfiring at all. But you never know, normally we should have all the ignition stuff figured out now, but yeah...

March 4

Those are still on, only disabled acceleration enrichment because it was stalling when applying the throttle.

March 4

3 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Fuel has a density of 0.77 that of water, so 137g/min = 177cc.

Ah! That's closer, 21.8 for a 4.6 and 23.6 for a 5L. Still not the same as the friend's 4.6, but worth a try anyway.

March 4

MAP on idle is around 40-50. Goes high very quickly even with small throttle opening though.

Just tried doing a REQ_FUEL calculation. The Bosch injectors should be 137 g/min (so ~137 cc/min?), 5L engine, gives a REQ_FUEL of 30.6... which is very far off the ~18.0 we've been trying, which is the value we got from a friend's 4.6 with the same injectors 😕

March 4

19 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Only other think I can think of is a massive air leak?

That will lean things out and cause it to surge, and die on throttle, as it will be just too lean to recover.

or... is the TPS working? Assume so as basic stuff is to set top min and max readings.

TPS is working and calibrated. The problem already occurs at ~4% TPS, barely feathering the throttle with half a toe.

17 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Changing REQ_FUEL does indeed have the effect of moving the entire map up & down - you can be quite bold in steps at this stage, moving it 20% would not be unreasonable.

With no AE you may well get a stumble - with any of these settings or corrections it's worth remembering how they work (which is usually quite simple although the documentation makes it sound complicated) - AE is what would be a throttle pump on a carb, and works either from rate-of-change of the throttle position sensor value OR from rate-of-change of the MAP sensor value, or a blend of both. Worth saying that a wobbly throttle pedal reading due to bumpy roads or whatever can result in AE being constantly triggered which will of course throw a lot of other stuff out.

At this stage it's not worth worrying about lambda sensors at all - use your nose, does it smell rich? TBH if it doesn't smell rich from cold, richen it up until it does to get it running, you can always tune it back down later.

Hence why we disabled all of that. Only effect is that now it's hunting a bit instead of idling smoothly.

We also tried fixing the spark angle, but that only made it a bit harder to start, no effect on the cutting out.

And to reiterate, this isn't a stumble. It doesn't recover. The moment you touch the throttle, it dies. We can't get it past idle at all, hence we can't do the cam run-in.
It felt to us like it was getting a face full of fuel, hence why we tried with disabling the AE.

We'll try throwing a bunch of extra fuel at it, but I have my doubts about that tbh. We had one plug out and it smelled a bit wet. But it also barely ran, so who knows. The exhaust is definitely not eye-watering.

March 4

Just now, Ed Poore said:

Sorry there was some?...

Yes, but you often come out more confused than when going in.

Not the best video, but a bit of motivation at least - this was the first proper start and running for more than a few revolutions yesterday It all sounds pretty good at idle, so I don't think the issue is timing related, but on the other hand, maybe it is...

March 4

3 minutes ago, Ed Poore said:

Having just opened TunerStudio I know that's not possible .

Before I left my previous job they brought in SAP - for almost a year and a half my boss had no clue how much budget any of his projects had. We used to have this beautifully simple internal web page called Project Browser where you could go, enter the project code and it had three tabs. Summary, Hours and Direct Expenses. On summary it said how much money the project was allocated, how much had been spent and how much was left. The other tabs broke down exactly what you expected. It was updated live as people charged to it. SAP - well after 3 years of being there when it was introduced I never successfully ran a query to know how much a project had spent.

Whilst I was farm sitting for my parents I had a visit from an electronics distributor rep - since he'd driven all the way down from Reading area gave him a cuppa and we sat and talked even though I wasn't involved heavily with the business at the time. They'd had SAP introduced a year before - one of the outcomes of that was that they were unable to ship anything for a month. Superb for a electronics component distributor...

Hence *since* SAP It's better, but only marginally.

My main gripe is that it's all scattered around, full of abbreviations, some stuff saves automatically and some stuff you need to burn explicitly, ... It's just needlessly a pain in the butt. And the documentation sucks.

March 4

8 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

Are you running in a cam? All these starts will be no good for it, I'd get it up to 2K any way you can and get it broken in.

We're very well aware, and that's been our goal from day 1. The issue is it dies the moment you look at the throttle (as in, 4% throttle and it stalls). Overall I don't think it's ran for more than a minute combined, so it should still be ok.

We've now disabled the AE (I think) and the lambda correction (I think). We've moved the req fuel up and down with little effect (which should be the same effect as moving the whole map, right?).
The timing of #1 has been re-verified (ballpark, as we don't have exact marks, but should be close enough).

None of this is made easier with TunerStudio being quite possibly the worst piece of software I've laid eyes on since SAP, but I digress.

I've attached a log where the problem is very visible (feathering the throttle as best I could), as well as some of the MSQs we've been using. The "worse" is when we disabled as much as possible, and then it started hunting before dying. Also attached that log now.

Not sure where to go from here, part of me wants to somehow bench test this thing and re-verify that spark is happening correctly and such. A wideband might help, but with only a few seconds of idling I doubt it'll tell us much.

2024-03-03_18.24.54 playing with accel enrichment.msq 2024-03-03_20.34.56 worse.msq CurrentTune.msq 2024-03-03_20.15.22 dead on throttle.mlg 2024-03-03_20.29.41 hunting.mlg

March 3

Bonnet height in case it makes the vehicle higher. For example on the P38 the bonnet in service mode (straight up) is a good bit higher than the roof.

March 3

14 hours ago, Peaklander said:

No I think it’s 46/9.81 Ncm. Not very much of a turning force.

Or my head is scrambled.

1Kg force = 9.81N

... then the internet lied to me as well But you're right, inputting it correctly it gives this:

March 3

Would it be an option to check with D60 aftermarket gear manufacturers (Yukon and such) if they can just cut you a custom pinion before it gets sent out for heat treating?

March 2

21 hours ago, Peaklander said:

So I can add the crush washer and set the preload, which needs to result in a torque of 34.5 - 46 Kgfcm which has to be the weirdest non-SI measurement.

I'm guessing that comes from some non-metric-knowing American that just threw ft*in into google... It's just 46 Nm.

March 1

35 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I'm watching with interest although so far this is more my budget:

https://en.openscan.eu/

Which does at least look like it's a decent enough idea for small parts.

I've tried photogrammetry before, without much luck. Structured light adds a much needed element to the process that just pictures can't really provide.

Budget-wise, if this thing saves me a couple hours of faffing about, it'll be paid back (if I work instead, that is ).

March 1

https://www.motorworks.co.uk/fuel-line-quick-release-connector-o-ring-fua59110-1.html

https://www.connect-consumables.co.uk/product/34057/O-Ring-Seal-for-Fuel-Line-Leak-off-Connectors-100pc

I think they're fairly generic things, but important to get a fuel-safe material.

March 1

Just now, simonr said:

I'll be very interested to know how you get on. I almost ordered one last night - but realised I'd need to upgrade my phone to work with it. Apparently, mine (S10) is too slow / old! If I factor in the cost of the phone, it becomes less attractive.

I'll definitely post up I have an S22+, which should be fine for it. But realistically I think I'd be using either my big laptop (that has Fusion on it), or my Surface (for portability). We'll see.

March 1

9 hours ago, Stellaghost said:

Not to be outdone by you scanners I thought I would share my 3D scanning /recording system..........

had pretty good success with this........lol

regards Stephen

That's what I've been doing. But when there's half an hour+ between where you're modelling something, and the object you're measuring... it gets old really quickly to have forgotten a measurement. Or trying to balance 3 straight edges next to a tape measure. Or trying to figure out a compound curve.

4 minutes ago, miketomcat said:

We had a boat 3D scanned for a cover at work. I've no idea what they used but as commercial I expect expensive. To be honest it took them as long to scan as the guy with a tape normally does, it cost twice the price and didn't fit. Now I appreciate there's a lot of variables but I guess all I'm saying is at a minimum your going to be checking the scan with a tape at which point you need to question the cost.

Mike

Yup, will definitely be double checking. But verifying a few simple to measure dimensions vs hours of mis-measuring, I know what I'd rather to.

We'll see what it does, the Scan Ferret Pro is on its way from 3D Prima, including a can of the matte spray.

February 29

Yeah, I think I'll order a Ferret Pro, unless someone chimes in with a "OH HELL NO!" soon

I haven't seen a reference to that limit yet, is that only for mobile or attached to a computer as well?

The Einstar looks really good, but it's a good chunk more expensive than I feel like paying for it, and the required computer specs feel a bit painful, although I guess my big laptop could probably handle it - even though it's only an i7 7700k (top of the line in 2017...).

February 29

38 minutes ago, simonr said:

One of the issues that most of the cheap scanners have is the inaccuracy is cumulative. I tried scanning a Chassis about 10 years ago - and although the scan looked OK, when I tried to turn it into a CAD model, it was obvious that it was twisted & deformed by about 15mm at the opposite corner to where I'd started.

That's definitely good feedback! Probably would help to do it in multiple scans and not one big scan?

February 29

Well an iPhone costs more than one of these scanners, and I don't want an iPhone :SVAgoaway:
And from what I've found, the iPhone stuff is fairly low quality still, but probably already better than whatever hellscape photogrammetry produces.

And all of it is no doubt more than enough to get some rough dimensions, an idea of what all is in the way of stuff, and getting some body lines. And maybe later some adapter plates and such.

Been watching a few more review videos in the background today, really looks like the Creality Ferret Pro would be perfect for my use and what I'm willing to spend on it.

I'll check out the Superfastmatt stuff as well, thanks.

February 29

1 hour ago, Maverik said:

So I've puzzled over this myself a few times, from factory "generally" 10 spline = Raliko bush type... and 24 spline = roller bearing type, except late RRC's 😝

I have a suspicion that you will be able to fit 10 spline half shaft, CV, Stub axle and Hub to a later roller bearing type assembly, but I've not tried it.

My late RRC with 24 spline was roller bearings, I'm pretty sure.

February 29

Honestly the Ferret looks to do better than the more expensive ones:

February 29

After a few hours of measuring, and then a few hours of modelling the rear of a P38 in CAD for building a rear bumper, I got the inexplicable urge to have a look at cheapo 3D scanners :glare:

Started by looking into the Creality Scan Ferret (~€320) and Scan Ferret Pro (~€400), looks impressive but reviews are mixed. The Revopoint POP 3 (~€580) has better reviews, but a good chunk more expensive, and seems to work best for small features, not larger surfaces. For larger surfaces the Revopoint Range 2 (~€820) seems to get good reviews, and now we're at triple the price of the Creality, and not really worth it anymore...

Anyone here have experience with either of them? My gut tells me the Scan Ferret Pro is probably a good bet, and for what I need it for it'll probably work just fine. But I might be missing out on something way better for not much more cash?

Some reviews I've watched:

I wonder if some of his gripes with scanning larger surfaces can't be fixed with some masking tape with patterns (to provide a feature to follow) instead of sticking the dots everywhere?