piper109

Well I have installed my pressure gauge (not in the dash yet) and taken note of the oil pressures. About 45 psi at idle when close to being cold. 16-17 psi at idle when hot. At 2000 rpm when hot its a bit above 35 psi. Engine has about 170,000 miles and never been rebuilt that I am aware of although the cylinder head was replaced because of an over heat several years ago, before I bought it. Engine seems to be a smidgen noisier than before (piston slap I think) so its possible that the timing is a little more advanced than it used to be. Steve

Thanks for the comments Boydie. I know I don't need the full synthetic (Shell Rotella T6, not Rosetta, I was tired !) but the fact is its what I use in my wife's VW tdi Beetle and its easy just to use the same, especially as its purpose made for diesel engines. At $18 a gallon here its not very pricey. I even use it in my riding lawn mower. The pressure gauge is in hand and will be installed very soon. Cheers, Steve

I finally received the new parts. Vehicle is back together and working well. Quite a lot of work. I replaced the oil pump rotors with new from UK. I also replaced the oil pressure spring but not the plunger as the quality was not good and I miked it up at 2 thou out of round (.002") ! I would have needed to force it into the valve drilling in which case it would not have worked and would have been impossible to remove so I just used the original. Replacement will be sent back to supplier. I replaced the timing belt and set the timing accurately and rechecked my work and settings per the www.Landroverweb.com/ 300tdi overhaul pdf. Starting was pretty much instant. Oil light went out after about 2 seconds and stayed out. I am going to fit a manual pressure gauge but it is not yet done. Subsequent starting turned light off after about 1 second. All the bottom end bearings are standard and were not replaced. I saw no need as they were all good. I am using the same Shell Rosetta T6 synthetic oil (5w40) but I may replace it with 15w40. I'm still not sure what the problem was but happy with the way its running now. Steve

I called a well known Tdi engine builder near Gatwick and asked a couple of questions. A very helpful guy "R******" gave me some good insight on my situation. He said that the oil pressure relief spring that you get from Land Rover these days is 55mm long, not 68 mm as per the manual. He said he often sees them come in 45-48mm long and stuff still woks fine. He said its very important to fit an oil pressure gauge so you can have a realistic idea of what pressure you really have. I have no gauge at the moment so I am going to fit one. Similar story on the oil pump housing. They are often not the size that the book says and not to worry too much. Only if you have a gauge you can really tell what the pressure is. He feels that my problem was due to the engine oil being hotter and therefore thinner than usual. Once again the gauge would have made things clear. I kind of feel that if I had waited a couple of hours for the engine to cool down and then restarted it, I would have had the light go off. Perhaps I had a lot of worry and work for no reason. Oh well.......it was time I replaced the timing belt anyway LOL. Steve

From what i have read, play in the alloy housing on the OD of the pump is not really unknown or rare and I am kind of feeling that I can get a second hand one and it will be just like mine. I think there are loads of 300tdi's around with high mileage and perhaps the oil pressure gets a bit low at times but unless the red light comes on, people are going to be oblivious of it and happily drive on, using the inherent robustness of the design. I am still researching and asking but I am leaning towards replacing pump parts, relief valve parts and putting things back together. I have bidded on a brand new old stock housing on Ebay.uk but was outbidded in the last seconds. There are quite a number of used housings on Ebay.uk, complete with pump parts and I am guessing that the wear in them is very similar to mine. Big end shells are in fine shape. I have not yet come up with the grunt to undo main bearing caps so I am going to buy some other tools. 98 ft/lbs torque should not be hard to undo but has been so far. Cheers, Steve

I did my measurement exactly as indicated on page 32 of the Land Rover overhaul manual (page 54 of the .pdf). There is a picture of a feeler gauge being used on the pump OD in the housing. I dont think sleeving the aluminium housing would be easy or practical. I will search for another timing case inner and hope I can find one with less play. I think this might be a common occurrence but I would like to find out from others. Thanks Steve

I have just dismantled my 300tdi because the oil light stayed on, fortunately at home, following a spirited drive, not out on the road somewhere. Timing chest is removed and oil pump dismantled. Oil pump rotors look good but I will replace them anyway. My concern is that the timing case recess that the oil pump runs in has a little wear in it (outside diameter) that I measured with a feeler gauge to be 12 thou or 0.3 mm. Manual says .001 to .003 thou. Timing cases are hard to find on this continent and probably anything I find might be that worn too. My biggest problem was that the oil pressure relief spring is 46mm long which is 22mm shorter than the spec! and I'm guessing that somehow this caused the oil flow/pressure problem. I understand that the 300tdi engines are very robust and I have no qualms about replacing mains and big ends in situ. Any opinions from 300tdi gurus? Are larger clearances on the pump OD common place ?? Are shorter press relief springs common place ?? Thanks Steve

Well I have dismantled everything at present. The inner timing case with the oil pump is in my hands. Fortunately after removing the crankshaft bolt, which was a real bear, everything else was pretty straightforward. Even the timing belt and idlers look good The crankshaft flats look good and basically unworn. The pump rotors do not look bad either. Close to 20 years old, 170k miles, just a few wear ring traces on the faces. I did notice about 8 thou" play between the outer rotor OD and the aluminium timing case. That seems a bit loose to me but I need to convert my figures to metric to compare. (showing my age LOL). The inner rotor has about 1 mm or forty thou play on the flats. Inner to outer rotor engagement seems pretty tight. The cover plate shows some wear rings but nothing deep. A thou or two at most. I did notice that the screws holding the plate on were a tad loose. Unscrewing them was effortless. I would have expected to have to break them loose a little. I'm not sure if the timing case where the pump runs is within limits or not It could have been that the pressure relief valve was the problem after all. I saw no evidence of trash or debris however but the spring is 46mm long instead of 60 something. The plunger shows some wear shiny lapping marks. Oil might have been a little hotter than usual as I had been making IP adjustments and driving up hills before the issue. I have to shop for new parts now. For sure the pump rotors and relief valve parts will get replaced. I may look for a timing case inner too. I still have to check main crankshaft bearings and big ends for wear. Steve

Thanks Boydie, That's a good idea to replace the pressure relief valve and spring. My valve plunger has some "lapped" areas. Yes I know better than to use Bri***ts. Getting parts for these engines is not easy In North America but I do know a fellow Brit or Pom who runs a company called Rovah Farm and I can trust what he gets. Right now i am fighting the crankshaft bolt and using the starter method. I have destroyed my 1/2" breaker bar and my replacement has not loosened it....just stalls the starter. I have found someone on ebay who sells a tool that bolts to the 4x M8 threaded pattern in the pulley which has an arm that can react against the frame while I use a cheater tube with my new breaker bar. Hopefully that will get it done. I noticed in your posting that you said to remove the alternator, water pump, PS pump etc. Is that really necessary as it looks like the timing chest back cover can be removed with that stuff still in situ? I will keep you posted as I make progress. I read another article on a LR forum where someone had a similar problem and the pump parts were worn as was the timing cover pocket which with hot thin oil dropped the pressure down really low. I plan on replacing the timing belt too. Cheers, Steve

Boydie, I believe I follow your logic in your suggestion. You are saying that a bad or clogged pick-up pipe or a stuck pressure relief valve can prevent the oil pump from sucking oil and circulating it, even if it is turning with the crankshaft. I have removed the pick-up pipe and seen that all seems in good condition, not loose or clogged. Today I removed the pressure relief valve. It slid in and out smoothly and taking it out and cleaning it gave me no sense of that It could have been jammed open. Everything is clean, shiny and looks in good shape. Spring is not broken. No sign of swarf or trash/debris. If I did the test you are suggesting, would it not be exactly the same as when I had everything assembled and running? What else could be causing a complete lack of oil flow, other than a pump that is not turning? Thanks, Steve

Well I dropped the sump this afternoon. It was not fun but fortunately the rain held off. My carport roof would not allow me to jack the Discovery up so I left it outside and worked on the gravel. Getting the pick-up assembly unscrewed was a devil, mostly the two M5 fine thread screws holding the rear side of the pick-up assembly to the main bearing 4 cap bolts. I think they had been over tightened or something similar. I saw no evidence of clogging or fracture and everything was screwed in place. The O-ring where the pick-up tube enters the front housing was intact and showed no signs of leaking there though I confess I have not yet done a thorough inspection. I think there has to be an easier way to do the job as I could not remove the sump completely until after I had removed the pick up assembly and return pipe and lowered them. I have not yet removed the pressure relief valve as I was worn out fighting the pickup and sump. Every thing looks shipshape except I did find a broken valve stem cap in the bottom of the pan so i have something else to check into. Looks like my next job will be removal of the timing belt cover and checking the oil pump rotory parts and crankshaft. Steve

Yes, for sure I will drop the sump and check the oil pump pick-up and perhaps the pressure relief valve too. We had heavy rain yesterday and I never did get the Disco backed into the car port so it might be fun. I have seen the sledge bar driver tool mentioned on a Youtube segment (used to be Trailerfitter I think) and I would have to make one. I might just use the "starter method" although I dont like the idea. I think my socket for the crank bolt is 3/4" but as I retired and have moved to a rural area since I did the engine swap, I have to dig out all my "serious" tools. Thanks for the encouragement :-) Steve

My oil filter is reasonably recent as I changed the oil about 2-3000 miles ago. I removed the oil filter completely and turned the engine with the starter, fuel solenoid disconnected. I perceived no oil flow and I assume the pump is not turning. From my research yesterday, I assume the oil pump engagement with the crankshaft is kaputt and I guess I will have to remove the timing cover and all that you have mentioned. Removing the crankshaft pulley will be the most difficult as I dont have the tool to stop the shaft from turning. I replaced the timing belt before fitting the engine 5 years ago and I tightened the crankshaft on the ground with the flywheel locked with a steel flat bar from the flywheel to bell housing. I assume at this point that the pump rotor to crankshaft engagement means is damaged, perhaps the crankshaft dogs are shot. It looks like I am in for a big job and parts for 300TDi are not easy to get in this country. I suppose I am fortunate that the oil pressure light stayed on while I was on my driveway and as far as i know all was working OK up to that point. I did not notice any oil pressure light while driving home and had no problem driving up my very steep access road. Engine started instantly and ran normally and no knocking etc before I removed the pressure switch and filter and i am staggered to find I have no oil flow at all.

Today I was making a couple of injector pump adjustments, driving about 4-5 miles, about 3 times. Disco was running well. I hit close to 60 mph on my way home and pulled up the hills normally etc. especially my very steep road and driveway which I need second gear with 1800-2000 rpm to get enough turbo power to climb nicely. Vehicle is a '98 Discovery 1 which I converted from V8 about 5 years ago with an '96 300tdi engine and R380 gearbox with about 146K miles which I bought in Wales and carried home. Vehicle has run very nicely for 5 years, about 25 k, not my daily driver. I live in the North Carolina mountains. All seemed well so I cranked it up to reverse into my carport when I noticed the oil light stayed on. After starting it a few times without even a flicker from the switch I decided to remove the switch. I cranked it over a couple of times with the switch removed and no oil came out of the port. Puzzled I removed the oil filter which was full and cranked the engine over a few times with the fuel solenoid disconnected. No oil came out of the filter housing. I am really concerned as its as if the oil pump is not turning at all, certainly no oil is circulating. Level is good, within about 2mm of the full mark and oil is Rotella T6 synthetic 15w-40. What have I broken ?? Car drove home normally and turbo was working well. A few minutes later I start the car and no oil pressure....none at all. Where do I start looking?? Any ideas? I have never disassembled the TDi as it had recently had a new cylinder head, engine repaired in Shrewsbury before I bought it. I removed the oil pan/sump before installing it into the Discovery and all was clean. Power has been good and I can reach 80, even with the aircon in use. Thanks Steve

Have you checked the Turbo output ? See 3.) on Boydie's response.

I had problems with my brakes a few months back on my '99 D1 as I they were working poorly and I was getting some shuddering. I tried to replace brake pads and I found that the caliper cylinders were really hard to push back and figured out they were rusting. I ended up replacing both front calipers and rotors with new as well as new pads. It made a very big difference to the brakes! I should have done it long ago ! I replaced all the brake fluid too.

Hmm........Thanks for the comment, However I'm not sure about that. The lever has arms which limit its movement in both directions against stops with adjustment screws which I have never touched. In its loose position it basically rests in the position which limits it in the direction of applied throttle. This is where I leave it. However if I push it while running, in the opposite direction, it will slow the engine down and shut it off even though the main throttle lever remains untouched and unmoved. This at least signifies to me that something inside the pump at the bottom is moved when that lever is operated though what remains a mystery. I would have to remove the pump and dismantle it to learn any more, hence my question on the forum. Seems like its not commonly understood even though its fitted to many 300tdi's. The Disco seems to run fine other than smoking a lot when cold and sort of 4 stroking, making me think its a bit retarded. When the weather warms up I will check the injection timing and maybe advance it a little to see if I can get rid of the smoking which is a bit humiliating.

Damper Eh.....Thanks for that insight :-) I have since found another reference to the lever etc, with a pic. http://forum.lro.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=87955 Unfortunately there were no real clues in this article. Should I just leave the lever loose ? Does if affect the injection timing in any way (dampen it perhaps) as the lever seems to turn something in the timing area of the pump ? The Bosch people must have had some reason to put it there ???? Thanks.

I have been searching for this info for some time. 300tdi in 96 5 sp. Disco. There is a linkage on the VE pump that I cannot figure out though I suspect it might be to do with cold start timing. This linkage is a lever on the pump side closest to engine. It comes up from the bottom of the pump to above the top cover of the pump where its connected to a pin on the throttle arm via a rod with springs. When the throttle arm is moved, the rod with springs move this lever. I have seen pics of other 300tdi engines without this linkage at all. Part of mine is lost and I would be happy to replace it and adjust it correctly but cant find any info. Any body know what its for? What it does etc? How is it adjusted etc? I have a fair amount of whitish grey smoke on cold start-up and overrun for a few minutes and I am suspecting that my pump timing is a little retarded but I'm reluctant to adjust it while this linkage is perhaps off. Disco runs fine otherwise. Thanks for any help.

Thanks for the inputs. I am ordering an OEM thermostat. Main dealers round here don't stock them for 300tdi.

Our present weather is around -10C with snow and freezing rain. My 300tdi is starting fine and driving fine. However the heater leaves a lot to be desired. The temp gauge shows normal (just below mid point) and is constant, leading me to believe that the thermostat is working. Heater output, defroster etc is not warm at all. I cant keep the ice from forming on the windscreen. I have felt the hoses. Top radiator hose is pretty warm. Bottom radiator hose is pretty cool . I use an electric fan with X-eng controller so it rarely runs. I ended up putting some cardboard between the radiator and the aircon condenser to block off the airflow over about 75% of the radiator area. This is what people used to do 50 years ago. Fortunately it still works. After a while at speed however, the car gets cooler and cooler. I know the 300tdi is an engine that runs cool but I believe LR would have made the heater better. Any ideas? Whats going on? Thermostat opening too far perhaps? Thanks

Better off swapping the Diesel and a its manual gearbox together. No ECU with a 200tdi. A 300tdi would be a little easier. You will have to remove the V8 engine mounts and weld in the diesel engine mounts. Otherwise its a straight swap with some electrical puzzles but not too bad.

For your water coming in, try using Capt. Tolley's Creeping Crack CureUse several applications all around the windshield and alpine windows. It effectively stopped all my leaks but I had to use it several times.

This may not be useful info but I will post it anyway. A couple of years ago I swapped a 300tdi/manual into what was a V8/auto Disco. The V8 had cruise control. I simply adapted the V8 actuator to work on the 300tdi injector pump arm and it works nicely. If Disco parts are available to you it might be easier to fit them than add aftermarket stuff. The speed sensor was in the instrument cluster and the vacuum pump is Bosch I believe, same as used on BMW's etc. All the US market Disco D1's are fitted with CC though many have rotted vacuum lines or bad capacitors in their ECU's.

Yes I understand you have to turn the pump up to realize any gains. I have already turned mine up a bit but I'm being careful as I dont yet have an EGT gauge. I cleaned out my intercooler about 10k miles ago. Granted it might need it again. I have been unable to find a supplier for Brunel Performance. Are they still in operation? Steve