deep

Funny, I live on the other side of the world (literally) and still identify as British. I think people moan much more in New Zealand though, or maybe I've been lucky when I've been ot the UK? Anyway, I'm trying not to moan at Land Rover but at a culture that has turned all vehicles into grossly un-Land Rover-like creations. The manufacturers are stuffed and lots of us are upset because there is nothing we can do about it. And no, a Ford Ranger or its ilk isn't even close to a replacement! We'll just have to keep buying up the old ones and restoring them until gummint says we can't.

I did say "Definitely worth watching if you're open-minded enough to hear Land Rover's point of view, especially towards the end" when I posted the link to that video. Maybe that proviso was overly optimistic? I might be close to the most conservative person on this forum (my early 110 could only be improved if it had a Series 2 dash and a cable to stop the engine, instead of a diabolical solenoid). I absolutely loath electric handbrakes, touchscreen interfaces in a car and autonomous anythings. Nevertheless, even I have to admit times have changed. The perspective of people who actually make vehicles - influenced by a bored public's hunger for new technology and pointless road performance (who actually NEEDS a 129 m.p.h. Land Rover??), critical road tests, relentless safety legislation, a critical need to make a profit and who just want to make something look different and appealing - is a thousand miles away from that of people who are content with something made in 1958 but don't want to pay the true price for making that today. Yes, they went way too far with the gimmicks but, given those constraints, they made the best Land Rover they could (if you don't want a pick-up or flatdeck, eek). At the end of the day, or maybe at the end of a long day's work, or a long expedition to a remote corner of the world, what it looks like matters very little and everyone will get used to it anyway, like they did with the Disco 3/4.

The Detroit is very popular but a friend has one in his alleged 90 and it can be a vicious beast in some circumstances, as it throws the car around quite violently when it "bites" in slippery going. Basically, it just wants to go straight, like any locker, but that is not always predictable. I think I'd still have one though, because I don't do intense off-roading of that type. (Edit) Just as an aside, he put the Detroit locker in the rear Salisbury (the "90" is a cut-down 110) and a Tru Trac in the front, something like twenty years ago. As far as I know, they've proven to be very robust and durable.

Someone shared this on a Fbook page today. Definitely worth watching if you're open-minded enough to hear Land Rover's point of view, especially towards the end. It did make me think that the things I don't like about the car are the things I detest about the majority of "modern" cars and it was never likely that they'd keep the junk off it! Pushing all that aside, well, it's got to be something special, surely?

That was worth watching just to hear that Ford V8 rumbling away in the background! Interesting test, no real surprises but nice and objective. A bit of muddy hill climbing would have opened up the comparisons though.

An interesting and helpful thread, thanks everyone. I had thought anything Ashcroft wouldn't work in my 1987 110 but now it looks like the front, at least, could have an ATB if I get 24-23 half shafts. I did actually blow a CV recently but it wasn't the axle end, it was the ball cage that broke (let's pretend that was because of its dubious military history and not my sieve of a memory in the lubrication department...). Shame about the Salisbury at the back end but there are a couple of other options to consider there (ARB and Detroit). Not that I have buckets of money lying around anyway. Just a little aside: I was told, years ago, by a couple of Land Rover anoraks that one of the reasons 10 spline shafts broke fairly easily was that the machining at the spline ends was unusually abrupt, creating a point of shear, rather than tapering off gently. It's true that all the snapped shafts I have seen broke exactly at the point where the splines start and I have seen a scary number of shafts twisted at that point. That being the case, the radiused-down Disco shaft may not be that weak?

I find this ironic. For decades people referred to Land Rovers as being put together like a Meccano set. Now the new Defender comes out in a plastic kit, which is hugely complicated. With road tyres...

Lost me. Who is this actor/actress??

The larger rims are far more likely to be related to trying to keep the sprung/unsprung ratio lower, which is all to do with having a better ride and handling on road (though that will also improve high speed ride and control off-road, of course). The minimalism in terms of locking diffs just reflects their utter confidence in the electronic traction control system. To a certain degree, they're right, as locked diffs can be utter pigs when traction is uneven. Personally, I'd still prefer to have air lockers, or even ATBs, on my 110 than any kind of computer controlled system. However, that rubs at the heart of the problem a lot of us have with the new generation of Land Rovers - they're making cars for the ignorant/inexperienced/downright lazy, not for the competent and capable drivers who want to be in charge. Turns out that the ignorant/inexperienced/downright lazy are the folk who are more willing to take out massive loans and actually buy a new car! You can't blame them. Actually, I would be amazed if well-maintained and fully working* new Defenders won't run rings around most old school off-roaders in many, many situations. *fully working? For how long???

How it's received by us few diehards wouldn't make much difference to sales, would it? Further, there can't be too many like our sour colleague Chicken Drumstick, who, having cooled off for many months waiting, would still refuse to buy one on principle (even if it matched those peoples' needs very well!)? For that sort of money, you'd only buy it because it either matched your needs and budget or because money pours out of your pores and you just buy stuff for fun. I think it will match the needs and budget of an absolute swag of people. Truck buyers will look elsewhere, as they have done for quite some time anyway, sigh.

Apart from getting one or two facts wrong, I think he nailed it. His conclusion nails why there is so much division over this thing, especially the comparison with the iMac Pro! My summary: Land Rover made a much better car but lots of people actually wanted a better truck...

I guess the new Defender 90 could be more or less seen as competing with the Jimny and maybe the short Wrangler (more useful and capable than either but more expensive than the Suzuki) but the Ranger is a completely different body style. Personally, I'd hate to be spending that sort of money without a clear idea of what I actually needed/wanted! Thanks for the report, Escape. Just curious now - if you order the 2nd level of terrain response, which allegedly allows the driver to configure the vehicle, wouldn't that allow control over the diffs as well? Funny thing, now that we know the little details about the new Defender (particularly how much the computer programmers want to over-rule the driver!), I have developed a new passion for my 32 year old 110, so much so that I'm trying to persuade my boss to take away my company car. That way, the 110 (and my SLK) can be my daily drivers! Of course, if he was to replace the ghastly Mitsubishi with a new Defender, I believe I could live with it...

Couple of ironies: "lo-fi" pushing high-tech; and I actually have one of those cassette with cable gadgets in my 110! The very flashy stereo I first put in it died early, so I grabbed an older one out of the cupboard and it's chugged along since, with its terrible sound and outdated cassettes still working fine. Those cassettes go back nearly half a century, a challenge to bluetooth! Bluetooth "just works"?? Um, only when the wind is coming from the right corner and the moon is waxing. The bluetooth keyboard and trackpad on my Mac just work. The bluetooth keyboard on my (work's) Surface Pro sometimes works. The first UE Boom on my iPhone usually just works but the second, paired one goes its own way. The bluetooth earphones I occasionally use on my iPhone sometimes just work but often need to be completely re-paired. I set my iPhone to communicate with my Mum's Holden Barina when she bought it. Everything said it had paired but nothing actually worked. When I get a rental car for a few days, it isn't worth the hassle of trying to pair via bluetooth. I could go on. On the other hand, I stopped the iPhone upgrade fiasco at the 6S, mainly BECAUSE the newer ones don't have a headphone jack (but also because the iPhone "just works" and there is no need to replace it). It's fantastic, I can plug it into both my home stereos and into my (work's) car stereo .....AND into the cassette cable thingy in my Land Rover, if I want to. All of which I can do also with my iPod but not with my Discman, because it's broken. Of course, my plug-in headphones connect instantly and utterly reliably with both phone and iPod and just work - and sound fantastic. Take all that together and it's about a kazillion times easier just to plug a cable into my phone (which I do anyway to keep the charge up, especially if I will be relying on it all day in the hills) than to muck around and hope with trendy and annoying wireless technology. Nice to get that off my chest.

Yup, that was clear. Unfortunately, I wasn't clear that I was talking about the "Defender". Sorry about the confusion.

I was thinking about this. No sign of anything like a CD player (a reflection of the times) but I also can't see any obvious way of plugging anything in. Surely they aren't expecting everyone to use faffy, unreliable bluetooth from their phones to provide audio, other than the radio? When I think of the people I know who are old enough to actually afford something like this, not that many of them put their music collections on their phones. Nor do they enjoy the hassle of trying to "pair" something. Bad enough trying to make adjustments or find a new station using a touchscreen! Hopefully, the controls on the steering column will be intuitive and effective and at least one of those USB ports will connect to the sound system. Surely... Some of the rental cars I use have systems like this. One model has a USB port that connects to the audio. It's hidden in the armrest, for crying out loud. With that particular car, I have to pull over to work the radio as it takes WAY too much attention. Knobs and buttons all the way for me.