Jocklandjohn

Ok final update (he said hopefully!). Spent ALL day lying in the snow but pulled the front driver spring and shock off, measured loose spring length 385mm (Spec sheet lists this as white/white 385mm) . Wrestled the new Boge shock in - the difference in effort required to compress it was noticeable (more effort) and despite the freezing temps I was sweating. In comparison the Monroe was so soft a robust child could probably compress it. I could instantly feel the firmer shock resistence when I lowered the van back on to the ground. Passenger side next, spring out measured at 375mm loose (Spec sheet lists this as yellow/yellow 370mm), and refitted with another shiny Boge shock. Dropped van, whole front end felt nicely firm and unlike the previous Monroe shocks was really difficult to bounce up and down by jumping on the bumper. Back end next - both shocks off and replaced with Bilsteins (I got the proper bushes so they are fitted sans steel sleeves). Took it for a run, first thing was the speed table at the bottom of the hill in the village - hit it and....no bump stop whack, so accelerated off the other side (10mph on Monroes would whack bump stops) and managed 20 mph and....no bump stop collision. Happy days! The took it over some rough B roads behind the house that previously had the van's front end shimmying all over the place when it hit some wobbly tarmac, but now it was controlled and confidence inspiring, with nary a hint of shimmy. Next test was the fast A road which had the van feeling distinctly wobbly in a straight line at 55mph, and rather scary at 65mph with the Monroes at which point a speed-wobble rattled the steering wheel. But nothing now at all, just a secure-feeling smooth-steering straight line, and despite deliberate left/right/left swerves just to see what happened, I could not induce any instability. So, my conclusion is that Monroe shocks are as soft as a melting blancmange. I am now back to the predictable and safe performance I had with the previous Armstrongs. Buyer beware! * Should add that the Boge and Bilstein units are nothing fancy, just their basic oil-filled models: Boge @ £28 ex VAT and Bilstein @ £33 ex VAT. (Monroes were £45 each ex VAT.)

Thanks! I'm quite conservative when it comes to doing stuff and consider every option carefully before commiting myself ("measure twice, cut once" mentality!). The flexibility of the completed conversion has been beyond my expectation, in terms of the functionality of the camper facility, but also how little real impact its had on the day to day usability of the old 110HT. Despite containing a sink, water tank, addiiotnal fuel tank, cupboards, work surfaces, storage boxes, compressor fridge, seating unit/storage box and sleeping facilities for 3 adults & a child I was still able to stuff a serious pile of ash firewood in the back for a short transport run from a nearby field to the house. Can't really ask for more!

When I was designing/building I tried as best as I could to accomodate the additional weight I was adding and keeping it evenly distributed and low). Water tank went midway between the axles, storage boxes inside have heavy stuff at bottom, lighter stuff at top, fridge is central over back axle, interior wooden fittings all hand made from lightest ply and pine I could find, using careful bracing to allow lighter materials to be used, the slide out bed (at gutter level inside) is in forwards position when not being used, when pulled back for sleeping has two alloy pipes installed across width to support it (both stored at floor level when not being used) and actual bed material is very thin (12mm ply), roof rack is built into the roof (simply alloy upstands with holes drilled and alloy pipes across with removble locking pins to change location of them or remove them if not needed. The van sits level, goes round corners like its on rails and sway was non-existent on the previous shocks, a bit more so on the Monroe shock but not unnnervingly so.

I hear you! When I started altering my 110 HT with the lifting roof and additional stuff like storage and water/fuel tanks I wanted to keep it sensible so opted for Land Rover Original Parts standard fitment springs all round (AirLift bags in rear) and Armstrong shock absorbers. It was lovely. Had to renew the rears at one point so replaced again with Armstrongs again, this time the HD variant, and it's been perfect. Smooth ride, well damped and more than adequate for getting me up and down hill tracks and forest roads/estate roads I need to go on (some really rough). I tried to replace all the shocks a few weeks ago with Armstrongs but none available anywhere which is why I ended up with the Monroes.... Boge versions arrived today so might get them on the front this weekend, and hopefully they'll be firmer than the Monroes.

All a bit of a journey of discovery this Land Rovering! The Bilstein tech basically said "Given the variations of build over the years if there's some slightly ill-fitting part of a shock or bush thats to go on an older Land Rover I imagine those owners would just fix it with a spoon or something, which is why hardly anyone ever mentions the bushes are too loose". Ok! He has a point!

I've had the odd one out experience then because every shock I've ever fitted on the rear over the last 25 years has had metal inserts! So are the inserts simply a 'shim' then to accommodate differing diameters?

Thanks very much, I'll file that for future use - I really appreciate it. I got sorted (I think!). But I've got SP bushes all round which I fitted several years ago and they're excellent, so if they do a specific Bilstein-fit bush I'll certainly try and get them for when I need them. I contacted shock vendor this morning - they said "I forwarded your message to our supplier, hence why we didn't know this information, and going on the information they have provided me, Unfortunately, they won't be able to get the part that is required separately quickly." Okaaay! So then contacted another specialist Bilstein stockist and they said (sit down folks!): "W don’t stock this in the UK, and to be perfectly honest this would cost more than the value of the damper to get over from the warehouse this is stored at the moment." Phew. Time to bang my head on the wall again.... Decided I should go back to actual Bilstein UK HQ and spoke again with Tech folks. Very perplexed - "We sell loads of these shocks to LR folks and nobody has complained about the odd fit and lack of metal insert." However I did get a recommendation to go to another Bilstein approved dealer in the North of England. Called them - boy what a service. "Yes John we can have a look and let you know". Twenty minutes later they phoned back "Bilstein have stocks of these bushes in the UK, we can get them to you for Thursday if thats ok? £10 each." So they're on their way. Curiously though I had a good chat with the tech rep at Bilstein UK HQ and asked if the bottom (pin) bushes were also bush-chassis fitment same as top - he'd said "All the fitting hardware come with the shock" So, thats a rubber bush with no metal insert in the upper eye, and at the bottom you fit a top washer then bush then axle then bush then washer and bolt. So no 'crown' cups as standard on normal LR shocks. He confirmed that was correct. However if one does that as recommended the securing bolt on the lower pin comes to the end of the threaded section before it has started to tighten on the bushes and you can physically lift the shock absorber lower section up and down in the axle! Be aware folks!

Thanks for that, yes the actual adjustment seems easy enough, my priority was to have the local experts actually change the belt and make sure the whole engine timing is on-the-nose and ensure with their experience that all is looking ok in there, then I can easily take it from there. They've even offered to temporarily fit a spare FIP if we cant get to the root of the issue and then I can compare performance of mine with a known good one.

The nozzles were done by my local Bosch dealer (and well-respected engine builders) and run through their test kit so I'm assuming that would be part of the fitting and setup.

Yes thats my thinking too. So basically all the stuff I've just done is aimed at getting a 'level playing field' - new tank, new fuel pick up, new fuel line, new lift pump, new injector nozzles and service, so now all thats done the timing of engine and pump will be pretty much the last 'normal' things to consider. (FIP was fully overhauled a couple of years ago so I'm assuming its ok). I have to say performance after the new fuel line was fitte is really good, but the hill pulling is still problematic - going to adjust boost pressure a tad - and try to source a twin barbed leak off banjo from a 12J injector as Eightpot recommended to get boost pressure at the pump.

Not a problem thanks! Read the above!! Will be putting new shocks on the front soon - I hope. I am currently trying to find more beer.....

Update (sigh!) After much toing and froing and getting nowhere I decided to remove the Monroes and fit something else so ordered Boge for the front and Bilstein for the rears (as the back is pretty soft too) Rears arrived already so.... So...sit down for this....and make notes in case you end up where I am currently... Pulled off a Monroe from the back, went to fit the Bilstein. No metal sleeve in the upper bush. Ok I have a pair of sleeves in a box somewhere along with various bushes so dig them out and try to press them through the Bilstein with the vice. Which tears the bush, but the sleeve still wont go in. Get second metal sleeve and file an edge to round so it will slip through more easily. Plenty lubrication and try again on the other shock but it would still not go through...and tears the bush again. Groan. Pulled the torn bush out and see a distinctly narrower internal profile in the shock eye which would stop a metal sleeve going through.... Gave up and drank beer. Penny dropped at 11pm - maybe there's not meant to be a metal sleeve in the upper bush! Maybe it fits 'bare' on the upper eye! So back out to garage, looked in box of assorted bits and found the two pairs of LR rear shock bushes one set two-part that donated the metal sleeves, and the other a one part press-through fitment. I measure the hole in the LR bushes with Vernier, its much bigger than the Bilstein hole by quite a margin. Measure the Bilstein bush hole, and the upper shock pin...and they're all pretty close in size. So my suspicion is the bush does not require a metal sleeve. Ok, this morning I call dealer and explain saga and who is very puzzled but agrees to contact Bilstein and find out whats going on and get back to me. While waiting for a return call I think I'll call Bilstein myself so google and find Bilstein-shocks uk in a gloriously Bilsteinesque website with mahoosove Bilstein logos all over it and loads of very professional-looking Bilsteiny stuff everywhere. ITS BILSTEIN! Online chat went EXACTLY like this: Me: explains problem Them: Are you aware we're not Bilstein? Me: Its a Bilstein Website with Bilstein written all over it! Them: We are not! Me: (utterly baffled now!): So why is your user name Allan@bilsten-shocks.co.uk then? Them: Oh Okay Me: What? Them: We are an authorised dealer. Me: Advise me how to resolve my problem then please? Them: We're not a manufacturer we cant help you, you need Bilstein. Me: What? Them: Here's a link to them. Me: Thank you. Goes and bangs head against wall and lies down. Call back to shocke vendor later. They tell me they got in touch with Bilstein and Bilstein said "you can fit a standard Land Rover bush so thats what to do!" Me: I've partly tried it - it wont fit. The two part bushes wont go in far enough as the shock eye is too narrow, and the one part might squeeze through but the metal sleeve then wont fit in the hole. So.... I hang up, and decide to call Bilstein, which I did an hour ago, just before closing time. I get a very helpful woman who is well-versed in this stuff and informs me, after consulting with colleague, that Bilstein changed the bush type around 1999 to this new one that is NOT like the LR part, and which is intended to FIT WITH NO METAL SLEEVE. She also said that the dealer should know this and have informed me when I purchased them. Sigh. (when googling this earlier in the day I found a post in a LR forum by someone who'd bought a 110 with these shocks fitted and was trying to replace the worn bushes with LR bits and was going mad trying to get them to go in and had ended up having to shave an LR rubber bush with a penknife to get it to go on then drill it to try to fit the metal sleeve - so someone else was also not aware of the bush size difference and no-metal-sleeve fitment...!) I asked very nice Bilstein woman for a part number...and got it...but she could not sell me a pair as they do not supply the public direct so I need to go back to the dealer. Watch this space. So there you go - oh...and also...the lower mounting pin non-threaded section is too long - (or the bushes Bilstein supply are too thin) so if you use them and wind up the nut you hit the top end of the thread before the shock tightens in the axle mount, so the shock is wobbly at the bottom but easy enough to shim with washers or add a thicker bush... but yet another little foible to be aware of. I am now going to bang my head on the wall again then drink more beer to take the pain away. Yours in a miasma of Land Rovering, jocklandjohn

Aha! Thanks Monkie - I just got my injectors back from the Bosch dealer on Friday, where they cleaned and fitted a set of the very same nozzles which I picked up off ebay! I just replaced the fuel line the week before as it was 30 years old so goodness knows what was in it (and removed the Eberspacher T-off) and ran it straight to the lift pump from tank. I noticed an immediate and dramatic improvement in power, acceleration and not a lot of smoke either, able to pull up the hill out of town more vigorously too and rolling on in 4th and 5th there was bags more oomph. Then I got the injectors serviced and refitted them over the weekend and now....I have pretty much similar performance but noticeably more smoke! Its certainly pulling well in all gears on the flat, but EGT's are much higher and noticeable smokiness when car lights are behind me at twilight. When rolling along in 5th I could clearly see a distinct trail not huge but there behind me and EGT's much higher than previously so the new injectors are delivering more fuel. So today I pulled the top off the FIP and checked the diaphragm (all fine) marked original position and rotated it a few degrees to alter the fuel delivery and a quick run *seemed* to show lower EGT's and smoke and pretty similar power. I'll take it out again tomorrow if I get a chance for a better look. I'm getting the timing belt done shortly to make sure all is correct, and then make sure pump timing is ok too. Most of the symptoms I've got seem consistent with retarded timing, but I'll let the experts investigsate that. But good to know these nozzles are working for you - the local Bosch dealer here checked them before installing and they were happy that they were the correct part and they ran them through their tester after fitting and pronounced them spot on.

Yes. Thats exactly right. Its easy to forget on suspension that as one side goes down, often the opposite side extends, so controlled movement in both directions is required. My front spring spacing looks pretty much like yours. I've ordered a pair of Boge front oil shocks and will fit them, see how it performs and I'll report back! Thanks for the help & guidance thus far, its very much appreciated (and that extends to all of you who have contributed!)

Well Boge made the original leveler for the rear as far as I recall. They've been around for yonks. Britpart is weird - some of the stuff is excellent, some not so good, all a bit hit or miss!

Just tried the company you linked to and they're still not available, and tried several others companies too and none have any in stock. I did a thorough search for same-as replacement before getting the new Monroes but none were available anywhere it seems. There are Boge & Britpart versions but no idea what they are like.

I was trying to and could not find a single dealer able to supply due to current shortages (apparently). If the company you link to (thank you!) do actually have them that'd be good!

I think I'm inclined to believe you!!

Thank you.

Aye overall weight is above standard, but still within 110 design spec AFAIK Local weighbridge has a slope onto it which made it difficult to do individual axles without one end of the van being downslope, which is why I could only get the overall weight. Will need to pull one and see what the uncompressed length is I think.

Thanks for that - thats an epic amount of information!! There's way more detail there about whats going on with suspension than I knew even existed! The previous shocks were oil-filled (Armstrong cheap and cheerful) but the current ones that are (possibly) problematic are gas as well (Monroes). I must try that, I've been wary about over-lowering the axle but I guess I'm being too cautious! The compressors are good quality but I still treat them with considerable respect & suspicion, a lot of potential shrapnel involved there!

Its still a wrestling match! There's one precise spot that the spring compressors will fit on either side of the spring without hitting the turret or brake lines and thats not at 180deg apart! What I did notice when fitting the new shocks was how easy they were to compress. When I was fitting the Armstrongs that preceded them I was sweating getting them compressed inside the spring to fit the inner bushes. No such struggle with the current ones.

No, I was quoting the free length as given for the original parts, I've not had them out to measure their current uncompressed length. The compressed measurements were done on the cureently fitted (old) springs the other night. I was hoping to get some info from anyone with a similar weight vehicle to see what their compressed length is so I can compare w/mine. Peaklander has similar vehicle and riding higher which *might* mean something! However having thought about it - not sure if a 'tired' spring will perform the same as a 'fresher' one under compression, so they may both be 'close' in compressed length but then perform vastly different when under their working dynamic load. I've got several choices - get new front springs same as fitted and try them, get new (different) shocks and try them, or get stronger front springs and keep same shocks. I'm leaning towards the first option! Rears seem ok, slightly softer ride than the Armstrongs that were fitted but no bump stop banging (have AirLift bags in back so that may be why). What has slightly concrened me is that a quick Google search unearthed another 110 owner who'd fitted the same shocks all round and immediately noticed a much softer ride and considered the fronts so different from the rears as to possibly catch out the unwary, so its apparently not just me that has noticed their 'flexibility'.

Aye thats the ones, apparently all fronts are 'progressive' should be fitted with closer coils to the top. But also yes whilst overall weight is important the specific nose weight is down to winches and winch bumpers (which I dont have) which would be on/ahead-of the axle. Well it looks like I might as well give the front spring replacements a go and see what happens! If its still the same as before at least I have new springs and its the shocks that cant cope.

Thanks Peaklander - thats really useful, and greatly appreciated. I doubt that the rear weight absence will matter as I imagine the front should be comparable. So compared to mine you're sitting roughly an additional 15mm higher which might make a difference to the bump stop clearance issues. Vendor advice, having spoken to an expert about the correct orientation (tighter coils at top for correct progressive action) and loading, was: "Here is a pic of one of the replacement standard height front springs for a 110" model where you can see the tighter coils at the top. They will compress under the weight to some extent but the top 4 coils should still not be touching, normally only 2 or maybe 3 for a heavier vehicle may touch at the most."