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Mating engine to gearbox problems


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Hi all

Fitting a 300tdi to an r380 gearbox and having so much trouble. Tried for 3 days now and still absolutely no luck!

It's a 300tdi engine to a defender r380. Fitted with a brand new genuine land rover spigot bush, new clutch kit all lined up with an alignment tool bought off ebay. 

I've got the engine on a hoist,  I can seem to get either the top of the bell housing and engine to meet, or the bottom. Occasionally can get it even all the way round but it still wont go that last bit. Im about an 1 and half inches away from getting the engine to sit up tp the gearbox. 

I've tried jacking the gearbox, tried all different positions still no luck. Removed the slave cylinder to release pressure off the release bearing.  No luck! Also tried clutch friction plate on gearbox splines, and it fits no problem. 

I don't think it's the clutch at fault, or my alignment, because I've stuck it in 2nd gear and turned the crank and the car started to move. So to me that means the clutch is on the splines fine, it just won't go that last bit. 

There's also no dowles/studs or threads in the way. 

Could the spigot bush be the problem, could it be too tight?  It is genuine land rover. I'm going to remove it tomorrow and see if it fits on the gearbox, if it doesnt I spose that could be the problem.  

Any tips, hints and comments welcomed.  Really hating this job at the moment. Thanks

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Check the spigot bush  slides onto gearbox shaft if it does, then it's just a juggling excercise to get it all together, maybe some longer bolts to temp replace 2 studs will help align it all, 

 the spigot bush LR part 8566L   is common to all 4 cylinder engines & LT77/R380 gearboxes.

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If it's 1 1/2" away then it won't be the spigot bush . It sounds like the splines aren't engaging with the centre plate . Getting it hanging dead right will make it a lot easier and jacks under the front and rear of the transmission to stop it rocking about helps too . Then push engine crane in once engine is at right height , when it stops going in watch the engine to make sure it hasn't tilted up at the front too much then turn the crank left/right with the gearbox in 4th/5th and the HB on .

...It should go from there :unsure: using force should only be done with care - I saw a D1 clutch that some cowboy had mis-aligned then forced using long bolts and a rattle gun and the gearbox primary shaft had actually started to broach an entirely new set of splines in the boss......:o

good luck

 

Steve b

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I had this issue with a 200tdi and lt77 (disco units) years ago. Turns out land rover made a different spigot bush for retro fit 200tdi into v8 range rover. This spigot bush has the same external diameter but the internal is smaller hence it doesn't fit a diesel gearbox. It took me ages to find out this spigot even existed as there's very few people aware of it.

Mike

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Just a thought if the engine is still on the hoist check the splines on the clutch plate center for damage, had that happen once and engine would not engage with gear box because of damaged splines.

I was lucky enough to have a spare clutch plate.(slight filing should help).

Good luck

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Ditto, Bushwacker. I has an unsuccessful try to get the engine back in by myself. After a frustrating couple of hours of wrestling with the lift and engine leveler, I took the the engine back out, removed the pressure plate, and found that there was some damage to the splines on the clutch plate. Some slight filing, realignment of the clutch plate and the transmission and engine went together like long lost friends. It helps to have someone else to push the engine gently towards the transmission and a second person under the truck to guide the engine. Turning the driveshaft may also help spin the shaft to get the splines to align and some grease on the shaft will help. Not too much though as the fitment is really tight.

Good luck.

DSC_1502 resize.jpg

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Souster said the following:

 

I've tried jacking the gearbox, tried all different positions still no luck. Removed the slave cylinder to release pressure off the release bearing.  No luck! Also tried clutch friction plate on gearbox splines, and it fits no problem. 

I don't think it's the clutch at fault, or my alignment, because I've stuck it in 2nd gear and turned the crank and the car started to move. So to me that means the clutch is on the splines fine, it just won't go that last bit. 

 

So this answers the comments around alignment etc I think?

 

If you fit a spigot bush in to a crank shaft your are supposed to ream it out to the correct size since the act of squeezing it in to the crank will alter the hole size!

I was a complete bodger with my V8 conversion, I did not ream it out and used the bolts to pull it in as I had the same problem. I was only swapping to a new V8 engine like for like so I knew it should fit.

I am NOT suggesting you do that as it may not work and it was a bad bodge that could have stripped all the threads! The spigot should be able to spin on the bush.

Another check you could do is remove the clutch etc and dry fit the gearbox to see if it will go in any further? Also measure the face of the bell housing to the end of the input shaft then compare it to the engine block to crankshaft minus the depth of the bush?

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Especially with a nice new bush (oooh err) you need to align the engine and box precisely at all angles or it won't slide on.

Take a breath, take the engine back out, set it up so it's hanging from your hoist spot on horizontally so the bolt holes line up naturally and the engine tilts down slightly at the tail.  Put a jack under the bellhousing and tilt it up to a similar angle to the engine - slide the two together and make small adjustments to the bellhousing angle till it slips on and you wonder why the hell it didn't do it two days ago! 

I find small gentle adjustments and a very light touch so you can feel where the shaft is as you slide it work better than hoofing it on with brute force. 

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Thanks very much for all your replies I really appreciate it. 

I won't quote each an every one as I'm not the best at it haha. 

I haven't got a load leveler,  so that maybe something to try and borrow or bite the bullet and get one! I must admit the engine hasn't been going in level,  but I didn't think that mattered providing the gearbox was jacked up to suit? How much jacking up can the gearbox take?

The clutch plate certainly isn't burred or the cause of the problem,  as I've fetched it off and slid it on the gearbox shaft with no effort at all! 

The angle of entry could still be the problem,  but I've tried that many times I would have thought I'd have got it with how many attempts I've had. 

Regarding the spigot bush, how do you go about reaming the bush? If the diameter of the bush reduces when it's installed to the crank, how the hell do you know it's going to fit without some very precise and expensive measuring equipment? 

I know the bush is perfect,  there's no lip or anything.  I was going to hydraulic the bush out tomorrow,  test it fits on the gearbox shaft and go from there. Although I Dont think that will gain me a lot as again, I'm told the I.D reduced when fitted in crank. I wouldn't mind if this was britpart,  but it's genuine land rover as I disn't want to be mucking about like I am now. 

Hopefully I'll have some help tomorrow,  fingers crossed we can get it sorted. 

Thanks again chaps 

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24 minutes ago, Souster said:

 I was going to hydraulic the bush out tomorrow,  test it fits on the gearbox shaft and go from there. Although I Dont think that will gain me a lot as again, I'm told the I.D reduced when fitted in crank. I wouldn't mind if this was britpart,  but it's genuine land rover as I disn't want to be mucking about like I am now. 

 

The bush fits inside a shouldered hole in the crank, therefore you can't hydraulic it out with grease/bread/wet tissue paper or any of the other "YouTube" methods as there is nothing for the pressure to act on, as the rear edge of the bush is hard up against the shoulder. Found this out the hard way when I changed the bush on mine a few months back.

 

As the bush is sintered bronze it is quite brittle and can be carefully broken up with a small punch and then broken out. Soak the new bush overnight in engine oil. It should easily tap into the crank with a soft faced mallet.

 

Alignment of engine and gearbox is critical. I've done this about 6 times, sometimes they just slide together, other times they get stuck and take ages. Usually after leaving it for a few hours and a bit of angle adjustment, they just then snap together and you wonder why all the cursing and sweats. A few long lengths of studding can help a lot on guiding the 2 halves together and means the input shaft doesn't get caught up.

Edited by simonb
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I think a load leveller will sort the problem out. As the two replies above say, if you don't get the engine and gearbox at the right angle to each other you will struggle for a month of Sundays.

I think if you put the engine down, put a load leveller on your hoist, check that the clutch is still aligned correctly, get the engine back into the bay and get the tip of the input shaft into the clutch, ensure the engine and gearbox are alinged then the engine should push on to the gearbox..... fingers crossed. As Eightpot says, you will wonder why the hell it didn't go the first time you did it!

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When I've done this with R380s I've made up four guide-rods [lengths of plain steel rod threaded at the ends to screw into four holes in the flywheel-housing] so that the gearbox input shaft can be delivered square-on to the clutch splines and spigot-bearing. It makes life so much easier.

[The same method is invaluable when refitting autoboxes, so everything lines up square and you don't spazz the driving pegs on the torque-converter/oil-pump]

It can help engagement too if you put a socket-and-ratchet-handle on the crankshaft pulley-bolt and have someone crank this round as you're shuffling the gearbox forward. Otherwise there's a risk you'll get the tops of the gearbox input-shaft splines and the tops of the clutchplate splines facing-off against each other and then it won't go in.

Edited by Tanuki
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Just like to say a big thanks to everyone for your help.  

Fitted a new genuine land rover bush this afternoon, reamed it very slightly and refitted clutch. 

Engine was mated to the box like a glove 5 minutes later. Thanks again chaps. 

Lets hope it runs well now

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  • 2 years later...

Took gearbox out to change clutch in a 300 tdi disco but struggling like hell to mate them back together they get to about an 1" apart and that's it. Any suggestions most welcome. There is no damage to spigot bearing and had clutch on splines.. doing it on uneven ground does not help. Wish I had removed engine now but could have been in same predicament.

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Hi. Try to have another person with you, one at the top and one underneath. Also try to turn the engine over slightly via the crank pully to help the splines engage. Try with a jack under the front of the engine so to slightly tilt it down at the back. Honestly two people make a big difference. There is a point on the transfer box if you bolt in an eye it will balance both boxes quite level it's either the top left or right bolt to gear box.

Good luck

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21 minutes ago, Stellaghost said:

Have you tried turning the crank may just misalignment of splines turning the engine or gearbox in gear may help

It's trying bloody trying dropped gearbox again to make sure clutch plate was in alignment and now to start the process again not much hair left now😤

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  • 3 years later...

Good to read that im not the only one where the main shaft wont slip into the clutch splines...

But any idea how much pressure and force the main shaft or the gearbox would stand...

Hope i dont damaged anything.

Gearbox fitted now with lot of tries

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