IanT90 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Every time MOT comes up I dread the "Sorry it's failed, just needs a little welding on the chassis". 2015 it was couple of patches not too bad cost me £60 at my regular garage. Last year however I had to use different garage to my usual, as he was busy and I was late taking it in. Again got the bad news "Sorry it's failed" the back cross section and around the tow bar needed welding, lack of my own welder cost me a £300 garage fee that time. Could have bought a welder, mild steel plate and done it myself for less. Many moon's ago I had a gas MIG welder great piece of kit, did lots of work on my old S2A and even a 1/4 chassis for a mate. I then reluctantly ended up selling the old girl so had no use for the welder and ended up selling that too . Just recently I needed a minor repair to my passenger seat sub frame, luckily the nice mechanic at my usual garage did it for free. However, I have just got hold of some nice box section the exact dimension of my roof rack access ladder, which for some reason was cut off short (presumably so it didn't obscure the number plate ?). So thought this is an ideal little project I can extend my ladder position and ensure the rung so it does not obscure the number plate and save me standing on the grab rail to access the first rung of my ladder. Problem is I don't have a welder, then I thought of my MOT coming up in June and thought "buy one" then your covered if it needs any jobs doing . I am expecting a decent wage in March, so went on eBay to see whats on offer and there are loads of reasonably priced ones. But the majority of them are gas-less, so being sensible and not knowing much about them, I read up on the reviews and they don't appear that favorable Appears they are not much use on anything less than 1.2 mm and are a little fierce, plus produce a lot of obnoxious gases. Ive had an arc welder many, many years ago and after using a gas MIG wouldn't go back there. On the other hand the gas/gas-less options are getting a bit pricey for a nice to have bit of kit. I am sure I can get the ladder welded somewhere for fraction of the cost of a welder ! Anyway I thought I would ask the question first has anyone got a gas-less MIG and if so what's there verdict ? Should I avoid like the plague ! bite the bullet and get a new gas MIG ? or would I be better off looking for a good second hand gas MIG ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 There is a lot of snobbery about Gasless MIG. I suspect most of the detractors have never used it and are just repeating what they have read! It's big advantage is that you can weld outdoors in windy conditions and put down as good a weld as indoors. I find it easier to make a nice quality weld using gas - so I keep both and use whichever is most suited. It's also very handy when the gas runs out mid job! If you can afford it, get a welder which will do both. If not, I would err on the side of Gas as it's more versatile and easier to produce decent weld. You can usually find somewhere out of the wind even if you have to weld outdoors. It might be worth considering a second hand welder as you will get a lot more for your money. Ideally something branded and physically chunky around 180A - that will cope with the vast majority of what you will ever want to weld. Having said that, I recently bought a new R-Tech Mig - and I'm very impressed with it! http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/mig-welder-r-tech-i-mig180/ I needed something semi-portable (so I can easily move the welder to the job). I would be wary of most of the Chinese welders you see on eBay. Some will be great - but some will be dreadful and you just won't know until it's too late! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanT90 Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 Cheers for the advice. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Pretty much as Si advises. I used gas less for a long time (you do need a flux cored wire for this). And it's great for small welding tasks, when I stepped up the quantity of what I was welding I went gas and now use hobby weld gas which I think is brilliant. There is masses of advice on the mig welding. Co. Uk forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I much prefer using gas. I have an old migmate 170p which does the job just fine. My favourite gas was boc argoshield universal but it just got so expensive I switched to hobby weld. I find the 5 is fine for bodywork with 0.6 wire but nothing else and the 15 is fine for heavy stuff with 0.8 wire. It's a real shame they don't do one in between the two as this is where the boc was and I used to do everything with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanT90 Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 Thanks guys been looking at a gas/gas-less welder made by Wolf 140 which has good reviews, either that or look out for a cheap second hand one. As I don't have a garage think gas welding is the way forward though. Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I tend to crank the gas up quite high if I'm outside at it doesn't take a lot of wind to effect the weld. It sort of bubbles up if it loses the shield. I've never put much effort into the gasless, I used it once to weld a shock mount back onto an axle whilst laid in mud and it wasn't at all pretty so didn't try again. Didn't fall off though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 My first MIG was gasless, a small SIP model that worked adequately for small patch repairs but nothing too nice or too heavy. That would be about 20-odd years ago. I had a tractor to restore for the father in law so I switched to a gas model and it makes you feel like a welding god, with some nice welds (you know like the ones you see on YouTube) and it does seem to be a nicer more controllable weld puddle. I noticed a difference going from CO2 to argoshield and have used that since. R-tech has been mentioned earlier, I bought one of their ac/dc TIGs (220 model) and it's a very good company to deal with. When the Clarke MIG expires I'll be looking to them first for replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 I use a Lincoln 180 mig which is either gasless, using flux cored wire, or used with argon/CO2 mix gas. With the former the weld spatters a lot, and although effective at gluing two bits together, the result isn't very pretty! With the gas, even I can achieve a semi-reasonable looking weld. So, unless you have no pride in the finished appearance, go with the gas option. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 40 minutes ago, Troll Hunter said: So, unless you have no pride in the finished appearance, go with the gas option. I don't think that's a fair statement. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UdderlyOffroad Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 I had a cheapie Clarke which would do gas-less, and I could never get a decent result. Not that the gas results were that good either. Sold that, bought a Screwfix special, I could get a decent bead in gas mode...but my mate bought a modern, electronic MIG and the results on that, even on thin sheet. are something to behold. So I currently coveteth one of those. On Si's recommend I'll probably go for the R-tech as it can also do stick. Handy for mitigating the running-out-of-gas-on-Sunday factor! Short story long, get the R-tech, or a GYS, or a quality 2nd hand unit. Yes, it will cost you about £400-500 for a complete decent setup including gas. If that seems steep, it is. But I'm willing to bet that it won't be an 'occasional use' tool. Once you have one, you'll find all sorts of uses for it. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) I've got one of the Clarke ones that allow you to both. Can't remember the last time I used it gasless. Cardboard strategically placed helps to keep the gas from blowing away. Changed from C02 to Argoshield last year & wish I'd done it years ago. Converted it to a Eurotorch about the same time & again, wish I'd done it years ago! One of the best welding accessories I ever bought was an auto-darkening helmet. Edited February 4, 2017 by paintman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Go gas. Paintman sums it up. Plus, get plenty of good light on the welding seam to start the weld. Plenty of first class advice here http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, Paddy said: Go gas. Paintman sums it up. Plus, get plenty of good light on the welding seam to start the weld. Plenty of first class advice here http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/ I use one of the tripod mounted floodlights & it's a huge help. ETA This: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/chl500td-halogen-floodlight-500w230v/ Edited February 5, 2017 by paintman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I use one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00LUO028U/ref=pe_385721_51767431_TE_dp_1 Clipped on to the torch with a pair of fuel pipe clips back to back. It works better than any work lamp I've tried and seems to have survived the bombardment of spatter & hotness. I was so impressed, I now have one on my keyring as well. It's impressive that a tiny AAA Cell torch exceeds what a 3 D Cell Mag light did in the past. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 5 hours ago, simonr said: I use one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00LUO028U/ref=pe_385721_51767431_TE_dp_1 Clipped on to the torch with a pair of fuel pipe clips back to back. It works better than any work lamp I've tried and seems to have survived the bombardment of spatter & hotness. I was so impressed, I now have one on my keyring as well. It's impressive that a tiny AAA Cell torch exceeds what a 3 D Cell Mag light did in the past. Si Put one of these into my 3-cell maglite. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Maglite-LED-Upgrade-TTS-Conversion-Cree-XP-G2-Bulb-for-3-4-5-6-D-C-Cell-Torch-/272103684892?hash=item3f5aa4bb1c:g:tDgAAOSw-kdX0odn Light sabres anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I bought a Clarke 151en about 6 months ago which does gasless and gas. I'd only played around with stick welding before when I was a kid so it was my first time mig welding. It came set up for gasless with flux core wire and I used that for a bit but ended up splashing out and getting a regulator and using hobby weld 5 and it totally transformed my welding. If you're a good welder then you can probably get good results with gasless, certainly good enough for chasis welding but if you're not very good (like me) and you want to improve then I think gas is the way to go. There's an article on migwelding where he plays around with gasless which is worth a read. The biggest difference for me is you can see what you're doing a lot better with gas as there's no smoke and splatter to obscure your vision which makes it a lot easier to see where you're going wrong. Having a torch attached to the welder is a great idea, I'll definitely be trying that! I doubt there's much difference between the cheaper hobby welders, the clarke I have does 30-150amps and having both 0.6 and 0.8 wire I can get decent beads on 1mm - 3mm no problem, it'll do thicker than that as well if you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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