mellors89 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Hi guys, New user and first post. My father-in-law has a defender 90 (2.5L 1996) that has an issue, was hoping you guys could help point us in the right direction Was driving the defender and he lost the clutch, he had a pedal but couldn't get any drive. So you put your foot down on the pedal and select a gear then when you start to lift it make a grinding / rattle noise. Get no movement at all. With the engine off you can cycle through and select every gear. We have tried it in high and low box. Diff locked and diff unlocked. Still can't get any movement. We suspected the slave cylinder, so took that off and all is well, re-assembled and reverse bled the system. Still have a clutch pedal but the problem persists. Jacked up all four corners to see if we could get any movement in any gear. Wheels don't move at all. Has anyone come across anything like this before? We don't know if its gearbox related or clutch related, was hoping for some feedback so we know where to check next! Any help would be appreciated, we don't mind doing any of the work we just need to know where to start. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I would guess clutch. If the centre has broken free on the plate, then you will get the symptoms you describe. Whatever it is - you'll have to remove the gearbox anyway. Could also be the gearbox output splines (putting drive into the transfer case). Remove the pto cover and have a look first. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 What he said. I have had the same happen, I did check the splines and it's easy to see if you take the pto cover off, only 6 bolts to eliminate it from your enquiries. Personally I prefer to remove the engine for the clutch, but that's a personal thing and depends on your facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors89 Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Thanks for the responses guys, Will check the transfer box asap and see what we get, do you need to take the centre rest out or can you see from underneath on the transfer box? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I found it easy enough to do it all underneath, the handbrake cable tends to get in the way in and it's easier to chock the vehicle and leave the handbrake off so it's not under tension. If you haven't been suffering clunks before all this it's probably not that anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I've always removed the gearbox, but then it's always been at the side of the road or on someone's drive. In a pub car park on one occasion Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors89 Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 Morning, Had a look at the transfer box over the weekend, looks to be fine. Teeth are all in good condition etc. Drained the oil and there were no metal chunks or metal on the sump plug. Can pretty much rule this out. Started the engine and tried to get drive, as you come up the cluthc and you hear the grinding/rattle the gears in the transfer box rotated slightly then stopped. They all moved at once, so I reckon it must be the clutch? What do you guys think? Also, how do you fill the transfer box with oil? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 transfer box oil fill & oil level plug is on the rear face to left of the transmission brake drum, it should be a 1/2 inch recessed square drive, a 1/2inch ratchet handle fits straight in, fill with EP90 until it starts to run out when oil level is at bottom of the plug hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I'm with Les I think the middle of your clutch plate is broken away from the outside. In which case, it is a relatively easy fix. There are many opinions on the best choice of replacement. The one that broke on mine was a Valeo. The replacement I got from Motor and Diesel and which is AP in origin (not Borg and Beck btw) but designed to take big torque pulses, But many people use the Valeo 130 clutch or standard AP or LUK etc . Do also make sure you replace or reinforce the operating fork as they tend to punch through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors89 Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 So I rang some garages to get some prices on a new clutch. (Still think we will probably do it ourselves) but wanted to know a price comparison really. Anyway, a local Land Rover specialist reckons it could be the main shaft, he is saying that would mean a recon gearbox at £600 plus labour. I don't want to go through all the effort of stripping it out for the clutch if it turns out to be the main shaft, is there anyway to check this? Or is it one of those things you will only know once the gearbox is off? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors89 Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 21 hours ago, cackshifter said: I'm with Les I think the middle of your clutch plate is broken away from the outside. In which case, it is a relatively easy fix. There are many opinions on the best choice of replacement. The one that broke on mine was a Valeo. The replacement I got from Motor and Diesel and which is AP in origin (not Borg and Beck btw) but designed to take big torque pulses, But many people use the Valeo 130 clutch or standard AP or LUK etc . Do also make sure you replace or reinforce the operating fork as they tend to punch through. I priced up the parts yesterday (presuming its the clutch) see attached image. I missed off the spigot bush, which I think I also need. Is there anything else I missed off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 For changing a clutch you don't necessarily need a clutch alignment tool, a 14mm (I think) deep socket with a few wraps of tape does the job just as well. I would also suggest a Valeo clutch kit rather than a Britpart one. Spigot bush is worth changing yes. I used a genuine Land Rover one not Britpart (notice a theme here...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Yeah the spigot bush is only about £1 or so, you'd b e mad not to, but can be a swine to get out. I think if there were no other clutches I'd still think carefully before going Britpart but each to their own. If going Valeo use the 130 kit. You might also want to cast an eye over the slave & master cylinders - any sign of leaking of either change them both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Heavy duty Britpart clutch for £45.45. That's almost certainly going to be rubbish. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors89 Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 Finally got round to doing this today, been busy with work commitments. So got the gearbox and transfer box dropped down, had a look in the clutch. Looks to be ok, which is worrying. There's was some oil in there that shouldn't have been. Not much though. Clutch seems ok, but will be replaced anyway. Gearbox input shaft is fine. Splines are really good. The only thing that I could find in the clutch housing was the slipper pads on the clutch arm were both completely locked tight on one position. Could this cause the problems of loosing drive? Also there was a crack on the clutch arm, hadn't punched through but couldn't have been far off! Should I be thinking about splitting the gearbox and transfer box to check the shafts there? Is there an easy was of checking this without splitting them? Cheers guys! ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 no need to split main & transfer gearboxes, on the rear of transfer box remove the circular cover plate & extract the bearing carrier & the gear on the shaft, then you can examine the splines for wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 My money is still on the clutch. I had the same problem, it was the clutch plate centre had broken loose, it seems to be not unheard of, and it isn't immediately obvious. If you turn the 1st motion shaft on the main box you should be able to get movement at the brake drum - or not, without having to put it all back, and it should feel smooth. Other than that the splines have to be in the frame I suppose, but again easily seen with the plate, bearing carrier and gear removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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