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Cornish Rattler

Collecting fallen branches ?

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8 hours ago, honitonhobbit said:

You'd still need a certificate of competence - unless it's your land and trees. Also need third party liability. So they put you in an interesting position within the law.

Used to be you would only need a CS30/31 but now you will need Level 2 in Maint and Crosscutting, Level 2 in Felling and processing over 380mm in diameter and Level three in windblown and uprooted trees

You'll also need to be on the County Highways Framework Contractor list, have full RAMS and TPL

This ^^

Fatboy - That council 'supervisor' sounds like an idiot I'm afraid. The trees belong to the owner of the land on which they stand, some owners might not care if people steal the timber as it saves them the bother of clearing it but others will. I certainly would!

Clearing trees off a public road in anything other than a life-threatening situation without the correct training, authorisation and equipment is not a smart idea. 

Apologies, will get down off my soap box now. It annoys me a bit when people see timber as free for the taking with 'no value' - why do you think half the forests even exist!?

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I occasionally have a bit of wood free to a good home - although you will have to sign a waste transfer note. Problem is it's always in the west country and often in quite large quantities (600tonnes was the last lot)

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HH, I can take one at a time ... :P

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1 hour ago, honitonhobbit said:

I occasionally have a bit of wood free to a good home - although you will have to sign a waste transfer note. Problem is it's always in the west country and often in quite large quantities (600tonnes was the last lot)

No woodfuel processors or CHP burner plants in that neck of the woods yet?

Demand up here has increased massively in the last 5 years or so, to the extent that it's often easier to get rid of than sawlogs. Quite a change from the past where it was often left on the hill to rot as there was no market.

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On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 5:24 PM, =jon= said:

Call some local tree surgeons. Often they are looking for places to get rid of unseasoned wood if the landowner doesn't want it - some of our local ones have lists of people that want wood, and will drop it off to you if they are in the vicinity and need to get rid of it..

There is one near landranger ( stockport ) so next time I go to landranger for bits I will go and ask :)

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I get mine for free or sometimes beer money. Mine is an open fire (log basket). I have to get what's available though, so I currently have oak, poplar, horse chestnut, and London plane. Can't burn softwoods though as they spit sparks all over the floor.

 

 

Les.

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5 hours ago, Les Henson said:

I get mine for free or sometimes beer money. Mine is an open fire (log basket). I have to get what's available though, so I currently have oak, poplar, horse chestnut, and London plane. Can't burn softwoods though as they spit sparks all over the floor.

 

 

Les.

Yeah I have just been given a load of softwood timber from an out building that next doors have just demolished and that sparks a lot but it was free and the timber wasn't that old so not complaining :D

 

Edited by Cornish Rattler

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600 tonnes sounds like a heck of a lot of wood.

However, not knowing anything about that sort of thing I could imagine that it wouldn't take many BIG trees to get that much. Can't even imagine how big the pile would be, or the cost to you to dispose of that waste HH.

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Well I offered it to Chris Watts but his trailer was too small and then he moved. Another chap I know hired a 28tonne 8 wheeler and hauled it all to his farm... Free

It was plantation thinning's. Roadside screening planted for the A303 Duals back in the early 90's. Never thinned as per the spec. The planting mix was Ash and Norway Maple - all about 450mm at stump. Mostly nice and straight. Ideal firewood

 

If it's going for firewood then it's not waste, so as long as a waste transfer licence ticket is filled in then you don't need a actual Contractors Waste Transfer Licence

If it went to land fill then it would be landfill costs plus £100.00 a tonne land fill tax for green waste.

To chip it we require a waste exemption ticket for the waste class form the Environment - then when we have that an further ticket form the EA to chip and spread on our clients land

 

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600 tonnes was a little more than I could manage.  The odd tonne delivered to Horsham would be nice though!

 

Chris

 

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On ‎19‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 1:35 PM, honitonhobbit said:

You'd still need a certificate of competence - unless it's your land and trees. Also need third party liability. So they put you in an interesting position within the law.

Used to be you would only need a CS30/31 but now you will need Level 2 in Maint and Crosscutting, Level 2 in Felling and processing over 380mm in diameter and Level three in windblown and uprooted trees

You'll also need to be on the County Highways Framework Contractor list, have full RAMS and TPL

This in my opinion sums up nicely the total over the top legislation in place in this country which is there as an @rse covering exercise for the people who feel the need always lay the blame for something at someone else's door. I completely understand that all those regs are there to cover whatever aspect of the law someone could potential sue someone under if something went wrong, what I don't agree with is that our law allows it in the first place.

Do I regularly fell trees and chop up firewood on my own land? Yes

Would I provide that service without any liability cover as a paid service? No

Would I cut up and move to one side a tree that has fallen over the road next to my drive and stopped traffic? Absolutely yes, isn't that just a common sense thing to do? Common sense - unfortunately being something long forgotten in the UK and hence a thousand rules and regs have been put in place to replace it to deal with the people who apparently don't have any!

 

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When I first started out in timber felling back in 1982, it was officially the most dangerous job you could do. If you had all your fingers by 21 you weren't trying. People died every month. Understandable really, a chainsaw is a nasty bit of kit. Knowing how to use one safely is not simple and only a fool assumes he is safe. I saw my first death three days after I turned 16. No chain-brakes back then; kickback and a powered cut to the carotid artery; man died in less than two minutes. I still remember it like it was yesterday - I was the only first aid trained guy on site because I had been in the Scouts. I used my shirt as a pressure bandage - although we didn't call it a pressure bandage back then. It's not nice, being unable to do anything.

Safety kit, training, techniques and rules now mean that tree felling is one of the safest industries in the UK, people rarely die. The people that do still die are those that haven't got the training, the kit, don't know the techniques or the rules...

Trees are heavy, grow funny, have funny stresses due to grain, species and growth habit. Chainsaws don't cut, they rip and tear. They remove a quarter inch width of flesh in a clean stroke. Most folk use mineral oils so if you don't bleed out, you will have major vein and nerve trauma exacerbated by the mineral oil - say hello to Mr Gangrene...

You attempt to move that tree and it goes wrong, someone will get hurt or die. That will be your fault. If you have ticked all the boxes then the man with the funny wig will say you did everything you practicably could. If you haven't ticked the boxes, then you will need soap on a rope. Simples

Edited by honitonhobbit

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..soap on a rope :lol: 

A very serious point nailed home with a bit of humour

being able to use the equipment safely - to oneself and others and being able to risk assess a situation are the fundamentals .

That said I spent 3 days clearing trees from the local roads for the council in '87 after the storm with only a landrover , a couple of chainsaws and a hydraulic winch and no paperwork to back it up.... different times .

 

Steve b

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They were very different times. I made a lot of money back then. I bought a brand new stump grinder, a Bedford Brava pick up and two new saws off that little gale, as well as a deposit on  yard. It kept me flat out for over a year...  I remember watching the army come in, over in the Ashdown to clear timber....  It was chaos. No training. Nothing.

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On 1/27/2017 at 2:58 PM, honitonhobbit said:

 

Safety kit, training, techniques and rules now mean that tree felling is one of the safest industries in the UK, people rarely die.

That, and the fact that most felling work now seems to be undertaken from the cab of a machine - which I assume was not the case back in the 1890s when you were 16? :P

Chris

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Softwood, yes; hardwood no. There's a big difference

it was the 1860's Chris - I know I don't look that old, but that's what a life of working outside does to your skin

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1 hour ago, honitonhobbit said:

it was the 1860's Chris - I know I don't look that old, but that's what a life of working outside does to your skin

Not sure you look quite that old Dave, it would make you about 170 years old!.

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23 hours ago, honitonhobbit said:

Softwood, yes; hardwood no. There's a big difference

 

 

There is a chestnut plantation next to the woods where I get most of my firewood and they use machines there - I guess it is mostly thinnish, straight stuff.  I had not thought about there being a difference between hard and soft woods in terms of harvesting - they were thinning in the beech woods there too but I did not see if they used machines.  

Chris

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Generally it's easier to harvest softwood - lots of technical reasons - with a machine

The chestnut is most likely coppice wood - so younger stems off a regularly trimmed butt.

Thinning is generally done by hand

It's all about money. Softwood over here is worth next door to nothing. So you need to maximise the amount felled in the shortest time. Most UK grown softwood goes for pulp - either paper or stuff like sterling board.  Or these day Bio-Mass

Hardwood has loads more uses - like your Sweet Chestnut for example; split rails, palings, shingles, work tops, fire wood, turnings, furniture, window frames, veneer. All higher money value. Semi mature and mature Sweet Chestnut are dangerous trees to fell. There longitudinal cell structure means that they have a habit of splitting  when you start the back cut. So 5-10 tonnes of tree splits twenty feet up and swings out the butt past you face faster than a fast thing. One of the few trees you burrow the nose of your saw into and reverse the back cut form the hinge...

 

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You can use a harvester on forced hardwood as there's no lower branches and the trunk is straight.

 

 

Les.

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My first job in the woods down south was thinning chestnut and ash coppice - certainly learned a lot about splitting trees there!

I've done some hardwood thinning with machines, but it's not as efficient as cutting softwood by any means and when you've got £700k or so worth of machinery on site it needs to be earning it's crust.

This has gone way off topic but Honiton's comments are interesting - in the north things are reversed, my programme is in the region of 550,000 tonnes per year (all softwood) and 50-60% of that goes for sawlogs (i.e. construction timber/carcassing). Around 20-30% goes as palletwood and the rest either chipwood (for OSB and the like), fuelwood or pulp as mentioned previously. 

Value wise prices for softwood here exceed all but the highest quality hardwood products, but it's all about distance to market - there are numerous sawmills/processors up here (as that's where the big forests are) and so we get good prices. If you're having to take your sawlogs 150 miles to get them to a sawmill then your roadside price is going to suffer greatly. 

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How are you coping with Phytopthera?

The way things are going with commercial forestry down here (which I'm no longer involved with I hasten to add), the general consensus is within 7 to 10 years it will be worked out due to lack of replacement planting and thanks to Phytopthera.

I work in utility arb/linear landscape management and it's completely the opposite - the biggest veg management contract ever seen in the UK is about to start down here and will be rattling on for the next 15 years. Rail is also coming back on strong with a big budget plan for the next 15 years. HV and LV is still going steady

We still supply a lot of poplar for pallet wood - but nowhere near the levels you do

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