neil110

New Def Neddy

83 posts in this topic

I'm one of the few who actually thinks it looks good & would buy one. Kinda hoping they're doing what they did with the Range Stormer concept.

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I don't hate it. The carwow article is the most recent and actually looks like a development of the current lineup. There might be something in it.

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Someone's been *very* creative with the digital crayons there.

 

 

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TBH I don't hate the looks. It's the fact that it won't be modular rules me out.

Dinging a side panel or door will be ££££ rather than just dredging eBay etc for a cheap replacement.

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1 hour ago, need4speed said:

TBH I don't hate the looks. It's the fact that it won't be modular rules me out.

Dinging a side panel or door will be ££££ rather than just dredging eBay etc for a cheap replacement.

How do you know? Disco & RR exterior panels can be stripped off. Look at the Smart car, removable plastic panels, that'd be quite practical and LR already did plastic wings on the Freelander which are very resilient.

Also since when were any vehicle's doors non-removable? :huh:

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Smoke and mirrors. Moving to the International as we like to keep the vehicle specific areas tech only.

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1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said:

How do you know? Disco & RR exterior panels can be stripped off. Look at the Smart car, removable plastic panels, that'd be quite practical and LR already did plastic wings on the Freelander which are very resilient.

Also since when were any vehicle's doors non-removable? :huh:

Because I was sure I read somewhere that JLR said the replacement wouldn't be modular.

And even if is modular to a point, I wonder how much it will cost to replace/paint a quarter panel, or (dare I say it) roof! 

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Agreed, don't hate it...

Doubt anyone can realistically produce a 'modular' design and meet crash safety, leak tight-ness and NVH (Noise Vibration Harshnees) that are required in a modern vehicle.  I can't think of a single production vehicle that currently does it.

I'll go further; I don't think many actual first-time customers of the Defender ever used its modularity either?

Back on topic...It might just be that with the...uh, Footballerising of the Discovery, it's at least conceivable the Defender replacement might be slightly more utilitarian?  I can't believe that in Tata's senior management, there aren't some people who look at what farmers have replaced their Landies with - the Japanese double cab pickup - and not want a slice of that market.  Ok, so they'd be chasing a £25k market, which is a considerable come-down from their current £40k (startIng) price.

Well, I can hope anyway!

 

Matt

 

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17 hours ago, need4speed said:

And even if is modular to a point, I wonder how much it will cost to replace/paint a quarter panel, or (dare I say it) roof! 

If you ding a rear quarter in a Defender you have to either replace the whole tub or drill out spot-welds and rivets (and these days, epoxy glued seams & clinch rivets). I still don't really understand the problem. People off-road Discos & RR's and even Freelanders quite happily and I don't see bitching about those.

How bad is your driving that roof replacement is a regular enough thing to be a concern that would stop you buying a car? :huh:

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The problem is the name Defender makes people think of a utilitarian vehicle because let's face it, the Defender was never comfortable. Anything that isn't the outdated Defender that we have known for decades shouldn't be called a Defender. They should stick to the new naming policy, the SWB should be a Discovery micro and the LWB should be a Range Rover micro :D

I think the reason Defender parts are so cheap to replace is because so many of the dang things have been made and sold and hacked about the after market supply chain is well established. From my experience with metal bodies going to plastic is that if you touch a metal body on something it dents and meh, if you do that with a plastic body (or step on a lorry :( ) it snaps all the brackets and rips it clean off.

Looking at the concept drawings what strikes me is the amount of plastic infront of and behind the wheels and how low the sills are between the wheels and how small the arch clearance looks. Depends what your going to do with it but its something that makes me nervous when I take my pickups rough places.

I just don't see how this will be any different to a freelander 2. It'll probably be a 2.0 diesel, probably only tow a couple of tonne, nothing fun like air suspension, they probably won't do anything like a 130 pickup and if you stuck a Suzuki badge on probably no one would know the difference.

But I could be wrong :)

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From a utility point of view, plastic panels (done right) could be pretty effective - particularly against the sort of minor knocks that account for a lot of the damage land rovers pick up when used in anger.

However, from an environmental point of view, it's not so great...

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I do wonder if the farming market is that important to LR. They dumped the military years back. Most farmers are happy with either a pickup or a quad. Most forestry/arb/landscape/countryside management types went to pickups years back. Also why build something with decent off road ability? Who needs it? Only a tiny percentage of potential users...

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3 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

If you ding a rear quarter in a Defender you have to either replace the whole tub or drill out spot-welds and rivets (and these days, epoxy glued seams & clinch rivets). I still don't really understand the problem. People off-road Discos & RR's and even Freelanders quite happily and I don't see bitching about those.

How bad is your driving that roof replacement is a regular enough thing to be a concern that would stop you buying a car? :huh:

John I don't have a problem with it at all.... I'm not arguing. However I think your misunderstanding me a little.

With an old defender if you put any big dings in it, you could roughly bash the worst out, fill it and paint it with can of Matt black paint (or whatever) that costs about a fiver and achieve a suitable repair. Doors you can get for about £200 a pair if not being mega picky. Wings the same. How much will the new replacement panels be I wonder? I would bet my house it will be £eeek!

People that are willing to put new freelanders/discos/RR's etc into situations that can cause the same kind of damage have more money than sense because you can guarantee they won't be repairing them the same way they would with an old defner...

 

 

 

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It will be possible to buy used panels for a 'new' Defender once there are some being broken up.  Once it has been out 30 years there will be loads around.

It will be possible to 'bash the worst out' of any damage to a new vehicle - though of course, it will soon stop looking like a new vehicle!

Is the greatest problem with a new Defender then that fact that it is new?  Don't worry.   There will still be old Defenders around for years, and soon there will be old 'new' Defenders for off-roading and damaging.

Hope this helps untangle some knickers.

Chris
 

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What Chris said!

You can hold a Ferrari together with duck tape and matt black rattle cans if you want, there's nothing stopping you. I just don't see the argument that a vehicle like a Freelander is unrepairable or difficult - and modern manufacturing makes it much cheaper, stronger, and more reliable in the 1st place.

I wasn't holding brand-new FL/Disco/RR up, I was holding the old ones up - an old D1/RRC/FL1 is cheap, old, can be off-roaded and repaired just as easily as Defender of the same age. I'm not hearing any owners complaining that they can't repair them like a Defender, I mostly hear people saying they are more civilised, practical, and cheaper to run!

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16 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

..You can hold a Ferrari together with duck tape and matt black rattle cans if you want, there's nothing stopping you..

Yeah you could, but no-one with any sense would. And that's my point. It's horses for courses.

The only way JLR could claim the defender replacement is exactly that, is if they made it truly modular, utilitarian and cheap to repair. 

And unfortunately, given what JLR have said so far it's not going to be. 

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"The problem is the name Defender makes people think of a utilitarian vehicle because let's face it, the Defender was never comfortable."

Err beg to differ, having driven any number of relatively new hire cars, I find mine ancient 110 far more comfortable to drive than any of them. One in particular sticks in my mind because I seriously thought I would never be able to walk again, the VW golf blue motion. No idea what engine was in it other than the gutless one. But there wasn't one of them that I would even consider using for a long journey. How long do I mean by long? 1,200 miles in a day, yes it was a long-ish day and there were 2 of us driving, holding a reasonably steady 85MPH. A tank of petrol lasted roughly 2 hours and we swapped over every time we filled up

But to get back to the point. Realistically how many of the people responding here have bought a new Defender in the last what 5 years? We aren't the target market. I imagine the number of enthusiasts who buy, or bought, a new Defender is a vanishingly small proportion of the vehicles sold

Edited by neil110

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I think your skeleton has been distorted by years of defender driving then ;) lol

Don't get me wrong, I love the defender, but I find it noisy, uncomfortable, cold, and under powered and couldn't live with one as my every day vehicle unless I was just running around locally. But it's a personal thing.

Have to agree with you though, golf's are bad, really don't understand the appeal, I'd pick a focus over a gold any day.

Why did commercial operators switched to pickups over defenders? Well they do the job and they can be had new for 10k less than a defender could which I guess comes down to how it was made mainly. To the bloke in the office tendering for a dozen vehicles what else is there to consider? 

Jeep have managed quite well modernising the wrangler but keeping it's offroad ability so let's see what comes along?

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More effin about with a photo of the hideous DC100 concept and Photoshop if you ask me.

The SAS Pink Panther version just made me laugh :D

Somehow doubt it will have 16" steel wheels either!

As I have said before, I don't believe it exists - there has been not one credible spy photo and if it's going to be launched next year that simply isn't likely, unless I suppose it looks just like the other blobmobiles in which case you probably wouldn't notice if they put a Range Rover badge on it. I suspect even it it does exist it will be about as much like a real Defender as my ride on lawnmower.

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Let's burn the castle ! Pitchforks and flaming torches at the ready ...

Mo 😊

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10 hours ago, Cynic-al said:

I think your skeleton has been distorted by years of defender driving then ;) lol

Don't get me wrong, I love the defender, but I find it noisy, uncomfortable, cold, and under powered and couldn't live with one as my every day vehicle unless I was just running around locally. But it's a personal thing.

Have to agree with you though, golf's are bad, really don't understand the appeal, I'd pick a focus over a gold any day.

Why did commercial operators switched to pickups over defenders? Well they do the job and they can be had new for 10k less than a defender could which I guess comes down to how it was made mainly. To the bloke in the office tendering for a dozen vehicles what else is there to consider? 

Jeep have managed quite well modernising the wrangler but keeping it's offroad ability so let's see what comes along?

That is entirely possible I have been driving them since my first outing in a series 1 when i was 13. I have strayed occasionally into Citroens and Love the Traction Avant. 

I like the upright seating position of a Defender and don't find it too noisy, then again mine is a V8.

Indeed as far as bean counters are concerned the bottom line is everything. The perfect vehicle needs to be cheap, have minimal servicing needs for the first 3 years of its life and after that who cares if subsequent users have a vehicle which has had 1 oil change service in 3 years?

Jeep are lucky in that they have a HUGE home market which is pretty Xenophobic a lot of the time, hence the success of "hardly able to" motorcycles. When I lived there I think I saw one other Defender (yes I took mine with me and could have sold it for a LOT of money) in something like 3 years, but typically saw 10-15 wranglers every day and no they weren't always the same vehicles even though I was living in a "village"

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For what it matters I think the new Defender will be a "lifestyle" vehicle with a pretense of utilitarianism, possibly using the freelander/evoque platform or maybe the disco platform .Defenders are trendy and I would be amazed if JLR didn't chase that market and I doubt they will drop the name  .Something for the mags to gush over . Won't make any difference to me as I can't afford one anyway 😂As regards the "old" landrover/defender , I find em quite comfy and daily use no problem , each to their own I guess .One thing for sure, whatever they build won't be cheap 😳

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