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bodumatau

Alternative engine to TD5

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See your problem..

Apart from getting a mechanic who knows what he / she is doing, the obvious way to go is to replace the Td5's with Td'5.

Turner's do very, very good engines and if swopping like for likes, it could be worth getting some outside help fitting the things.

Although I love the Mazda lumps (3.5 Tdi 4 cyl.) that is a good, strong and very simple engine I'd not go that route as you're going to have problems getting spares etc. We also have an 2.8 Iveco in a 130 that did very, very well but again, parts could be a problem.

Bon Courage !

 

 

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18 hours ago, Lightning said:

Ah, l see. It would l imagine be a bit "lazy" on power delivery with no turbo.

Indeed. I hadn't appreciated that this was a non-turbo version of the engine.

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I think a Cummins would fit the bill perfectly apart from the weight issue. They are twice as heavy as td5,s and I imagine this is going to put a lot of strain on the chassis and suspension.

 

A 130 HP one should make drivetrain components last a little longer.

 

will.

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Maybe ship a forum member out for a month or two to build up a set of TD5 engines once they arrive......

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When I started to build my ibex I looked at all sorts of engines. My conclusions were ANY non lr engine probably has more power great but will kill the gearbox and axles. In my case it came down to td5 or the 200tdi I had sat in the garage. Land rover spent millions making sure their chosen engine wouldn't destroy the gearbox it was bolted to. I'm sure you can guess what I fitted. My long term plan is to convert to td5 when I have to.

So to your problem your best and most simple solution is to replace the td5s with new td5s this has a secondary benefit you will then have a pile of spare td5 parts. 

Mike

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You should look at turbocharging your 1HZ engined land cruisers. Safari do a nice kit with turbo, intercooler, air intake, exhaust and updated clutch. You'll find it transforms the otherwise underwhelming performance. We have a number of turbo converted 1HZ engined land cruisers operating at altitude at 5000kg GVW and find that the performance is adequate 

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There is only one sensible choice of re-engining your current fleet given your supply and mechanic problems: rebuilt TD5s.  Anything else has the same potential for bad workmanship on engine build up, with the added complications of so much conversion work.  Not only will conversions cost more down time and more ancilliaries and adaptor parts, but you also run into more failures and running issues due to incompatibility of certain parts or conversion quality, and you won't get a rebate on exchange engine units.  Go to Turner Engineering, and I'm sure they'll give you a decent rate on 15 engines.  If you could supervise the conversion work you were considering, given the time each would take, then you can certainly manage the time for each engine swap using rebuilt TD5s, which will be half the time.

From simplicity, parts, reliability, cost and reliability perspectives, fitting TD5s is the only sensible solution.  Make sure you use good filters, ideally with doubled up fuel filters, and good service intervals, and you shouldn't have significant maintenance issues in the future.

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So what is happening to the engines that makes them "die"?

I feel your pain having worked with a few lodges in Zambia and Malawi. Those businesses are all worried about what will happen when their Pumas get old. 300Tdis win. You're in a tricky position because your vehicles are so modified and are working beyond the limit of what Defenders were designed for. Typical safari vehicles are 3x3 benches on a standard Hicap.

Td5's can be a bit of a stretch for typical mechanics, but replace like for like and get a good auto electrician. The electrics have even stumped seasoned SA mechanics. Personally I would always go 300Tdi in that environment, but if you need the power then Td5 is what you'll have to use. With 15 vehicles, you really need a workshop manager, as it's a full time job to be over their shoulder 100% of the time making sure they don't round off bolts or put engine oil in the clutch fluid......

 

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The way I see it you need:

enough power to get around

Not too much power so you can keep your R380's going a bit longer

Diesel

Reliable

Readily available if possible

Relatively simple to fit  - production line type mods for 15 vehicles

The 606 has reached almost Urban Legend on here - no idea why. It's good, but not that good. However MB make good engines more readily available and easier to fit; The OM605, OM 602/OM662 and the OM603 (3.0ltr not 3.5) are the best more modern lumps - although the 617 Turbo is the toughest engine very made. The  605 can be fitted with the pump off the 662 to lose that nasty electrical stuff.

Of the lot, you may find the 662 the easiest to find as it's fitted to the SsangYong Musso and Korando and is built in Korea. It's basically a mechanical version of the Sprinter 2.9 lump. Easily capable of 135 to 150 decent low down grunty hors power and plenty of torque

The South American Ford Ranger runs the International Motors 2.8 version of the 300Tdi. It's sold in Africa - not sure if it's available in your part of what is a big old place

The BMW M57 will destroy your drive train and isn't that reliable

Isuzu 3.1's are okay but need a big radiator

The Fuso Canter 4D32 and 4D30 are good - but low mileage serviced units are simply not available

No matter what Fridge says about old engines, you need 15 engines plus 5 spare units to fit easily and reliably to 15 big heavy Land Rovers. They need to be reliable, day in day out, with loads of abuse and poor maintenance. What's your budget?

The best engine for Africa that Land Rover made was the 200Tdi. Then the V8 (on carbs). Then the 2.25 Petrol... 

I would suggest making a list of options, spec for prep to fit from crate, container to ship etc 

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I would be wary of the 2.9 Ssangyong/Kia derivatives, they eat their injector pumps/injectors at very low mileages (~50K). 

Not many left on these shores any longer.

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Fair enough, maybe they fixed initial problems with them... Later ones being better?

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It seems so

It's interesting working through the maths on this...

Buy a second hand engine; refurb it, fit it - do say two a year for ever

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greetings all - a quick update on this thread....

1. we are still hating our LC 4,2's 

2. replaced 5 rebuilt TD5's in the last 2 seasons and all have failed, they were rebuilt by a "reputable" LR shop in SA.

we had been trying to figure out a reliable conversion that was properly engineered and it seems Cummins SA have come up with a solution...

so our first "old lady" - is being refitted with a 2,8 cummins that is derated to about 140hp and 360nm, more than the TD5 but not that much more to kills drivetrains, watch this space and I will update you on ow it goes. Cummins South Africa are going about it the right way and doing their homework intensively, they will load test the vehicle once it is complete with both an upgraded cooling pack (radiator and charge cooler) and the standard cooling pack and we are hoping to have the vehicle ready to drive back in Botswana by end April....

transmission is rebuilt Ashcroft R380 with HD bearing and LT230 with the heavy duty option and the ATB.

hold thumbs for us that it works out, then we can throw heaps of money at new engines in old ladies....

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Nice to see the thread updated after a couple of years 👍

Good luck with the conversions.

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@ MODERATORS - can I add more tags to this thread? I would like to add "cummins 2,8" and have clicked around a bit but no luck.

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Surprised no ones been asking what are you doing with the ‘old ‘ td5’s...

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On 2/17/2020 at 10:03 AM, bodumatau said:

refitted with a 2,8 cummins that is derated to about 140hp and 360nm

Is that their new "repower" engine that came out a year or two ago? I.e. a crated diesel engine for small utility vehicles?

Be curious as to how you get on with it - I'm picking up a 6x6 on Sunday which currently has an LD28T in it from a Nissan Patrol. The previous LD28T it had in it suffered with oil pressure issues so curious as to how this one is going to go. Given the extra weight it's designed to carry something a little more pokey might be nice in the future.

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5 hours ago, Ed Poore said:

Is that their new "repower" engine that came out a year or two ago? I.e. a crated diesel engine for small utility vehicles?

Be curious as to how you get on with it - I'm picking up a 6x6 on Sunday which currently has an LD28T in it from a Nissan Patrol. The previous LD28T it had in it suffered with oil pressure issues so curious as to how this one is going to go. Given the extra weight it's designed to carry something a little more pokey might be nice in the future.

LD28s were a common conversion here in New Zealand.  Many a near new Land Rover was spoiled by having one fitted in place of the factory V8.  Few were turbos and nearly all were second hand and came from saloon cars (Nissan Gloria or Cedric maybe?).  They were popular because fuel economy was good and they'd rev hard enough that you didn't have to change gearing but, wow, you needed plenty of extra sound-proofing!  I'm sure that turbo will be a welcome addition.

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3 minutes ago, deep said:

LD28s were a common conversion here in New Zealand.  Many a near new Land Rover was spoiled by having one fitted in place of the factory V8.  Few were turbos and nearly all were second hand and came from saloon cars (Nissan Gloria or Cedric maybe?).  They were popular because fuel economy was good and they'd rev hard enough that you didn't have to change gearing but, wow, you needed plenty of extra sound-proofing!  I'm sure that turbo will be a welcome addition.

This one is from a patrol so don't know if that makes any difference. On paper it's similar to a 300Tdi I recall but might be wrong.

By all accounts the cranks can fetch silly money because they're used as strokers for the Skyline engines. The previous owner sold the crank from the one that didn't build pressure and paid for both engines from the proceeds. If that's true not overly bothered because if it'll cover a shunted TDV8 vehicle I'm so tempted to put one of those into either it or the 110.

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On 2/21/2020 at 1:47 PM, Badger110 said:

Surprised no ones been asking what are you doing with the ‘old ‘ td5’s...

🤣 Badger you are welcome to have the ones we take out, I have a row of them sitting in a room in Botswana...

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That looks great in there! 

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I'd be very keen in hearing how you get on. I'm very tempted by it if I don't get on with the turboed LD28 in the 6x6.

Just today was pootling around and it dropped oil pressure when warm. Might be a number of things (including dodgy gauge) so I'm not being inspired with confidence in it yet.

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