neil110 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) Plus the diesel was originally designed to run on vegetable oil, thus older diesels should be quite happy running on the effluent produced by mickey D. Despite what oil companies would have you believe oil is becoming a scarce commodity and in the not too distant future prices will rise, significantly. There is a body of opinion, within the oil industry, that peak oil has been reached if not passed and the only way from here (obviously) is down. In response to Cynic al There are a couple of HUGE solar arrays quite close to me, on the roof of barns or other animal shelters. It is interesting to compare the attitude locally with that typically encountered in UK. I was listening to an oil industry exec recently (lives in London) bemoaning the number of wind turbines he could see whilst driving along the M3. How they were a blight on the landscape etc etc ad nauseum. Locally people start to complain if they haven't got wind turbines nearby. Edited March 13, 2017 by neil110 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 It really annoys me, I can see wind turbines from the front and back of my house, there are 3 farms surround me and people complain like mad about them, politicians spout no more in our back yard we have enough etc etc but what is people problem? They're a structure with a 25 year life that sits on a small concrete pad that can quite easily be removed so they're not in the same league of environment alteration as say an open cast mine and you don't lose much acreage of farmland. People say they're ugly but if I'm sat watching TV with the Mrs I often find myself watching them spin around more intently than the tripe she's put on the box. I quite like looking at them. Are they going to solve the energy chrisis? No, not without storage or sufficient gas capacity to back them up but they help a little and have brought on drive technology no end which can be applied to other industries. I've always liked this website http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ If someone would apply common sense they'd have solar panels on shopping centres etc where on a sunny day the a/c gets cranked up, then supply would sort of match demand. Theres a huge potato washing and packing factory around here that has covered its roof with panels as they use a lot of electricity for the potato washing kit, they look a lot better than the mismatched steel roof underneath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Bio-gas is the way to go. At the moment we grow maize to fuel anaerobic digesters. 98% of Maize grown in the UK is for bio-gas. Crazy! It destroys the soil, the drainage and is expensive - all for a relatively low calorific value. What is better? Grass! Easy to grow, three crops a year and doesn't mess up drainage or soil structure. Combine ( a think tank set up ten years back) have been looking at bio-gas in a big way. Verge mowing's is a big potential source. Wasteland reserves another. Wetlands. Land reclamation... Easy to set up small processors, tank it up. Dry the arising's and 'cake' it for burning in bio-mass Guess what? Combine has lost it's government funding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 There is a company putting biogas filling stations in for HGVs, they claim even with the higher cost of the vehicle the operator will see a saving over 3 years of a few percent. However I tihnk it's going to be an offset type setup based biogas being introduced to the gas main? I know sewerage treatment plants have been using methane for some time to generate electricity but I'm not sure where the bio gas would come from for fleets of trucks? Fields full of cows with balloons tied to their back maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 5 hours ago, Davo said: .........not owning so much........................................This is one reason I drive a V8! The latter is certainly going to help you with the former! Si 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Well that degenerated quickly... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 15 hours ago, Cynic-al said: There is a company putting biogas filling stations in for HGVs, they claim even with the higher cost of the vehicle the operator will see a saving over 3 years of a few percent. However I tihnk it's going to be an offset type setup based biogas being introduced to the gas main? I know sewerage treatment plants have been using methane for some time to generate electricity but I'm not sure where the bio gas would come from for fleets of trucks? Fields full of cows with balloons tied to their back maybe Anaerobic digesters can produce methane from an enormous range of stuff. The methane is of a regular quality. The issue is how much stuff is required to make it and how well it digests. It's like managing a stomach so it produces loads of wind but doesn't get upset. A mixed diet helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 17 hours ago, Cynic-al said: The problem with growing fuels is that that land can usually be used for food, and with a growing global population it's a case of one or the other. I think these solar farms are a crime, acres of land that can't be used for growing. Put them on warehouse roofs etc if you have to have them. The number of huge warehouses that have gone up around here over the last 20 years thanks to Blairs off shoring is amazing and they're still going up, make it part of the planning that they have to come to a deal with the energy companies to stick the solar panels there to get planning. Changing technologies just moves the problem around, OK little advances are made here and there, in 20 years time we learn't the odd thing we thought was good for us actually isn't. The sad truth is the only way to solve the problem is to find ways to reduce population and reverse globalisation. But what politician wants to stand with that as there manifesto? Look at Drax with biofuel, no way can the coal and wood chip they use be better than the tonnes of coal under their feet, but Kellingley Colliary still shut whilst the coal comes from Columbia and wood pellets from Canada. I have said much the same myself. It's horrifying how the media and public swallow the lies and miss the obvious solutions - it goes to show how stupid the majority of the race is. If every new home, commercial unit and non-historic government building had solar panels, the fossil fuel reduction would be huge. Using agricultural land for solar, no doubt govt subsidised, is an absolute waste and compels even more food import will the associated transport pollution; it should be made illegal immediately. If farmers don't want to farm, they should sell the land to other farmers or allow the land to return to nature, but what they are doing is environmental vandalism. I'm amazed at the lack of interest in geothermal energy. Even domestically in the UK it works brilliantly for heating, and ground pumps aren't expensive in the long term. They should be mandatory in all new buildings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I think the problem with ground source is you need a certain amount of land and it is condition dependant, the housing drive in the UK at the moment is based on getting as many egg boxes per acre for the lowest cost. They often don't even connect the estate to the gas main to save money as calor will stick a tank on the estate for free and charge the house buyers over the odds to heat their homes. You get the odd green project where they have sealed buildings with heat exchanges and windows only on one side and CHP and so on but it's more of a lifestyle thing for wealthy pensioners looking to downsize and have something to talk about. I know some people retrofit air source heat pumps but their effectiveness does fall away with dropping air temperatures... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Geothermal = everybody wins Not the fairly pathetic ground source heat pumps, but proper deep drilled power stations. The problem with GSHP is the temperature of the water is pretty low, so not good for radiators fitted to most houses, even modern ones, and need underfloor heating to be effective. By the time you add all that up you are looking at 15K for a heating system, which is pretty hard to swallow for anyone. I have a friend that farms a good selection of animals, bit of crops etc, on the land that's no good for crops (he's on the levels near Lympsham) they've installed solar panels recently, anyone from the area are likely to have seen the signs. As they farm a fair number of sheep, they are allowed to graze amongst the panels quite happily. Yes there is a slight reduction of grass production, but that is more than offset by the panels income. And that is the bottom line I'm afraid, for the majority of farmers it is just survival driving these changes, oh and good business sense. That said, using good arable land is criminal, as suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 To comply with planning these day there must be public open spaces and ecological areas as part of the UK Bio-diversity drive - there's your space straight away. Then all your green waste form a housing estate goes into an anaerobic digester, solar panels on the roofs and a bio-mass water heater. All houses connected into a mainframe of energy supply. Like what they do in foreign countries... simples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I have seen ground pump system diagrams that specify large flat area plumbing and others that used a deep "refilled well", the latter being more effective as they go deep where the earth is warmer, as well as not needing much garden space; they could even be put under the building or pathways so large property boundaries are not required. We didn't go for it purely because of installation cost, but there's the rub - if every new house had it, economies of scale would make it cheaper than fitting gas mains and boilers. As for the temperature they heat water to, you'd be surprised - I tested an air pump system about six years ago that was using the -2oC air outside as a thermal source to produce scalding hot water and hot radiators indoors. Apparently, they work well down to outdoor temperatures of -15oC. The big geothermal stuff for power plants might never be viable in stable places like the UK, but on volcanically/tectonically active spots like Iceland, the US west coast and much of the Pacific rim, it seems a wasted resource that has zero emissions and no negatives. I'd imagine the amount of energy humanity could extract would have an impeceptibly small increase in the rate of core cooling and the effects of that on the planet as a whole. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 They're planning to build a number of new villages where I live, these are to be planned and include recreation areas like parks, lakes, pubs, shops, cycleways etc. The M181 (possibly the shortest motorway in the world) will become a dual carriageway to allow access to be taken off it. It's mostly a flood plain for the river Trent that is currently farmed for crops. It last flooded only a few years ago, afterwards the council provided skips on every road for residents of the area to throw their carpets and other damaged belongings in. Let's wait and see how eco the 6,500 homes will be, seeing as they're starting with a blank canvas it could be a show area for what can be done... .. And then there's what the people are going to do for a living in this area but I'll leave that for a subject to use to ruin someone elses post... http://www.s****horpetelegraph.co.uk/6-000-new-homes-look-plans-s****horpe-lakes/story-18608794-detail/story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 We have a 'new town' going in on the edge of Taunton (why is it not simply part of Taunton); oddly enough it's not on a flood plain. But the drainage run off is already causing huge problems - it was part of the issue behind the 2014 flooding on Sedgemoor. There are no 'eco' homes, no solar, no nothing really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 22 hours ago, Cynic-al said: They're planning to build a number of new villages where I live, these are to be planned and include recreation areas like parks, lakes, pubs, shops, cycleways etc. The M181 (possibly the shortest motorway in the world) will become a dual carriageway to allow access to be taken off it. It's mostly a flood plain for the river Trent that is currently farmed for crops. It last flooded only a few years ago, afterwards the council provided skips on every road for residents of the area to throw their carpets and other damaged belongings in. Let's wait and see how eco the 6,500 homes will be, seeing as they're starting with a blank canvas it could be a show area for what can be done... Any house that needs rebuilding, refitting, refurnishing and redecorating every few years can't be ecofriendly, regardless of how energy efficient it is when in good order! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 21 hours ago, honitonhobbit said: We have a 'new town' going in on the edge of Taunton (why is it not simply part of Taunton); oddly enough it's not on a flood plain. But the drainage run off is already causing huge problems - it was part of the issue behind the 2014 flooding on Sedgemoor. There are no 'eco' homes, no solar, no nothing really New estates on flood plains caused their own problems. Now, new developments are causing established communities' problems as they push the water elsewhere. A few small ponds in the estate don't counteract the water runoff from a whole estate; they need much more use of porous road and paving, rather than just adding drainage to shift the water elsewhere. But, of course, that costs money, so they won't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 They blocked 100 houses and a shopping parade as the plans for water run off and suds were insufficient. The area is low lying, it used to be a Marsh until the Dutch came and drained it many years ago. It relies on pumps to drain the land into the river. Permeable paving, flooding car parks, hydraulic brakes etc help stop flooding from tropical rain storms, the problems come when the river floods as there's nowhere to pump it too. No idea what you do about that, a Thames barrier type thing or up stream flood areas? If you follow the river out towards gainsborough there are high concrete walls with steel gates around the flood plane, the farmers drive through the gates to farm the land but they can be shut to contain the river water in that rare event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 (edited) We also have a new estate in Bridgwater of '30 year' houses - put up for the workers at Hinkley Point... They gave it a fancy name - but we always called that area 'The Marsh Fields' Edited March 15, 2017 by honitonhobbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 On 3/14/2017 at 4:34 AM, simonr said: The latter is certainly going to help you with the former! Si . . . it's an endless loop . . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 11 hours ago, Cynic-al said: used to be a Marsh until the Dutch came and drained it many years ago. Bloody dutch.... So where did we start, oh yes petrol engines! Daan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Flood Plains are just that, the areas that get flooded in extreme weather conditions. Development on flood plains has too often been allowed because of councilors' vested interests, and to the eventual grief of the poor people who buy houses there. Perhaps the council should provide flood insurance for properties built on flood plains. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Not the council, as that budget comes from taxes. The councilLORS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Yes!!! Much more appropriate, and the developers. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Oddly enough the Dutch didn't drain our part of the world - they came over to fight for the crown. We have a couple buried in the church. Allowing for what a massive farce The Battle of Sedgemoor was, you get the feeling they were standing in the wrong place. Mind, every year on the anniversary of the battle, kids form the school put flowers on the tombs... Then we go and light the wicker man, dance naked and drink cider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exmoor Beast Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 On 3/16/2017 at 10:00 AM, honitonhobbit said: Then we go and light the wicker man, dance naked and drink cider Any excuse, you'll be sacrificing virgins to appease the God that created the 200tdi engine before long in the hope he restarts production. Anyway, back on track, I've just looked at the torque curve for my 1.5Mini Cooper....ummm, I wonder what a tuned Cooper S Works engine would sound like in my 110?... :-) Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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