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Shackleton

New Series - RR Heavy

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good thinking, I didn't want to do anything until I was sure the connectors were redundant. I went back and had a look at the episode the doors come off in, but you can't quite see whether they're connected or not. It looks like its probably not connected to anything. Actually it looks like it's making its way out through the wrecked floor :rolleyes:

651712634_E.01Doorwiring.thumb.jpg.84a0519cc0b8075566696e198bc3b615.jpg

 

8 hours ago, Anderzander said:

...I remember my Dad saying there are times when you’re better just shutting the door and leaving it.

It's good advice, I walked away for about four months in '17 and nearly another four in '18, it's why it's taken so long. No accounting for the human element, I walked away in the summer but was all on for tackling it outdoors through winter? 

The average restoration takes three years they say, except this isn't a restoration, half the chassis and 3/4 of running gear hasn't been touched.

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Average 3 years, that's optimistic - I bumped into an old friend recently who has been building a Westfield kit-car for about 22 years now...:ph34r:

  • Haha 2

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A restoration/build is not necessarily about reconditioning or repairing everything. All the cars I've built (Yes I'm in double figures now) have been built on a shoe string therefore anything that is serviceable gets left alone. It does mean the end result is no better than a good second hand car. But hey I drive an ibex that cost me the same as the kit alone would of cost me if I bought it from the factory. I've also had several of my dream cars, yes I have to fix them from time to time that I wouldn't need to if everything was reconditioned but I can't afford that.

So yes you are doing a full restoration, don't sell yourself short your doing a better job than most on a tiny budget.

Mike

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I can imagine how deflating finding that must have been, George, but it's a tiny fraction of what you have already achieved and you'll sort it in no time.

I know what you mean about the Vogue SE thing, but I was too worried about so many of the known problem areas when I wanted to buy mine, so I spent two years looking for a plain Vogue - no EAS, no seat electrics (I added heaters using the already existing wiring loom and just had to add the switches), no sun roof and no leather to scratch or crack.  Unfortunately, it also meant no heated front screen (an easy addition as the wiring for that was also present) and no aircon, which I added with the correct factory parts.  So, I'll hopefully not have all those issues.  I find the sunroof also takes to much head room in a cabin that is already a little cramped - I'm only 6', but I need the seat all the way back and my hair sometimes brushes against the flat headlining; no way would I manage with the dipped lining and cassette.  It's as if Spen King had never met anyone over 5'9!

Keep going - you're nearly there!  Take a break if you need it - go and tinker with the Esprit to nurse your mojo if you need to, but you're doing a great job and giving a lot of people like me the confidence to tackle RRC shells. 

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Well I just cracked the heated front screen :i-m_so_happy:

Funny I can deal with the actual setbacks themselves. They knock the wind out of me though because I'm tired, but operating on excitement, which gets shot down and I'm left just wanting to sleep.

Anyone by any chance coming across to Ireland on the ferry soon? I can get my hands on a screen and as it happens I'll be foot passengering back to Ireland through Holyhead on Sunday but I'm not sure Stena will be happy about me carrying a pane of glass.

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just wrap it in lots of bubble wrap and cardboard :D they'll never know.

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I'll call them in the morning, if there's any chance of bringing it back on Sunday I'll be all over it

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It's laminated so it not like it will shatter into a million bits.

Mike

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15 hours ago, Shackleton said:

Well I just cracked the heated front screen :i-m_so_happy:

Funny I can deal with the actual setbacks themselves. They knock the wind out of me though because I'm tired, but operating on excitement, which gets shot down and I'm left just wanting to sleep.

Anyone by any chance coming across to Ireland on the ferry soon? I can get my hands on a screen and as it happens I'll be foot passengering back to Ireland through Holyhead on Sunday but I'm not sure Stena will be happy about me carrying a pane of glass.

The chances are that at its age, you'd have bands of failed elements that would leave vertical stripes of fogged up screen - it seems to happen to them after a few years if they are used much and always left to shut themselves off on the timer relay - they seem to overheat and break adjacent elements.  It's a good idea to switch the screen off manually as soon as it has cleared.  So, this could be regarded as an already required replacement!

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It had three stone chips in it too, part of the reason I wasn't too scared of giving it a go myself. I hadn't really considered the full implications though.

Well a patron is picking up the ebay one for me tomorrow and I'm buying him a drink on Sat eve before carrying it on the ferry [foot passenger] on Sunday. The seller says the screen was tested before removal and was working fine. They don't have perfect feedback but it was the only one and I don't have €530 for a new one. I've also found a brilliant glass guy who's going to come to have a sit down chat about the whole subject, and bring his best guy to fit the screen. I'm covering the fitters hours and the [2nd] new seal, which is a bit pricey but he tells me it's made by the company LR had them supplied by so it's genuine.

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Good job your not hand carrying it in the storm on Saturday!, wind should die down a bit on Sunday,....  lightweight folding sack barrow might be the thing just to make life easier,  they were in Aldi recently, somebody might have one you can borrow for the weekend? Good luck with the whole scheme anyway:) 

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Well Michael the patron was given the wrong screen, I found out when I called to complain about the condition of it. It was delaminating and one of the connectors had been knocked off the glass, and just shrugged off. I'm getting a refund. Came home empty handed.

Luckily found another in Ireland and I'm off to get it tomorrow. At this stage it'll be a massive bonus if it actually works but I just need to get glass back in the car and get it done. Can only tax it until August anyway so I'll hardly need a heated screen. Won't stop me being up at stupid o'clock like some sort of sex pest heavy breathing inside the car to get it steamy :rolleyes:

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we were wondering how it went,.... must be able to test the resistance of the element as a check at least?? I don't know what it should be but someone will have some idea

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As long as it has *some* and it isn't infinite it should be OK.

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Posted (edited)

There are four connectors on it. So are there two sides/elements in it? The connectors are one on either side, and on the top edge on either side of the rear view. 

I'm not well up on proper testing with a multimeter. I've only every tested for continuity with a beep or a light. If I can coax my multimeter into actually working, what should I be turning the dial to, and am I right in saying you mean so long as it doesn't read zero, there's some life in the screen?

Latest episode just went up. There's plenty I didn't do well in this one but I'm chuffed with the new windscreen frame. 

 

Edited by Shackleton

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6 hours ago, Shackleton said:

There are four connectors on it. So are there two sides/elements in it? The connectors are one on either side, and on the top edge on either side of the rear view. 

I'm not well up on proper testing with a multimeter. I've only every tested for continuity with a beep or a light. If I can coax my multimeter into actually working, what should I be turning the dial to, and am I right in saying you mean so long as it doesn't read zero, there's some life in the screen?

OK, a quick look at the diagram shows the screen is fused at 25 or 30A depending on who you believe. SO.... quick bit of Ohms law gives you 

R = V/I

Car voltage is actually 14, and not 12, so use that as more current will flow at 14V than at 12V:

R = 14/30 = 0.4667 Ohms

Or about half an Ohm.

So, set your multimeter to the lowest Ohms range, often 200 and take a measurement by touching the leads together. This is important, as your leads will show some resistance, and you will need to know that to assess whether your screen is about right. Cheap leads are often 0.2-0.4 Ohms, so you can see how this will affect things. Make a mental note of the figure.

Then measure the resistance of each half of the screen.

  • If you get the same reading as your leads, then you know there is a dead short (actually very, very unlikely I would say)
  • If you get a '1' shown on the screen, this means the meter is out of range, i.e. the resistance is more than 20 Ohms. You can try switching up the range to see what's going on, but more than likely there is a break somewhere.
  • If you get a reading close to your lead resistance + 0.5 Ohms, then you are golden :)
  • If you get a reading of somewhere between your lead resistance + 0.5 Ohms and ~2 Ohms, it is likely that some of the elements have failed in the screen and you will have a couple of stripes that won't demist when you switch it on as fast as the others. This is not uncommon, at all. Especially on a 30 year old screen, in practice though, it is not a real problem compared to having to wipe a non-heated version ;) 

Hope that helps :)

 

 

Peter.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Shackleton said:

Latest episode just went up. There's plenty I didn't do well in this one but I'm chuffed with the new windscreen frame. 

 

That reminds me of the P38 camera car Land Rover used to (maybe still do) have. It wasn't quite like that - there wasn't much bodywork above door level, just a windscreen and rudimentary cage - with an even more rudimentary hood to keep the rain out when it wasn't in use. And a high 'shooters' seat in the middle of the back for the cameraman.

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That's deadly Peter thanks. So Resistance is Voltage divided by I. I know 'I' is the fuse rating but what does it stand for? The screen has been taken out of an LSE for me so it's '92 or newer and hopefully is at least partially working. I've no idea whether the old screen worked well or not. Will report back once I've got the glass and have done a few tests.

16 minutes ago, geoffbeaumont said:

... a high 'shooters' seat in the middle of the back for the cameraman.

I've been kicking around the idea of putting a webasto, or custom hard top over the load area of my two door. They're a fantastic camera car and I've long wanted to be able to shoot from it standing up.

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1 hour ago, Shackleton said:

I know 'I' is the fuse rating but what does it stand for?

I = current = amps.

Yes I know it is stupid, but that is what we use ;) 

From Wiki:

Quote

The conventional symbol for current is I, which originates from the French phrase intensité du courant, (current intensity).[6][7] Current intensity is often referred to simply as current.[8] The I symbol was used by André-Marie Ampère, after whom the unit of electric current is named, in formulating Ampère's force law (1820).[9] The notation travelled from France to Great Britain, where it became standard, although at least one journal did not change from using C to I until 1896.[10]

So it seems we can blame the French for something else ;)

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Ohm's law; Volts, Amps, Ohms

If you have a resistance of 1 Ohm, and put 1 volt across it, 1 amp will flow through it.

Put 10 volts across it and 10 amps will flow. Put 10 volts across 2 ohms and only 5 amps will flow.

The VIR triangle is one of the most important concepts to grasp in electronics - and it's pretty easy once you've got the idea.

Likewise, the Volts / Amps / Watts (PVI) relationship is similarly important and useful.

Power (Watts) is volts x amps, so you can do the maths on your 100W spotlight at 14v to work out what size fuse you might need: 100W / 14v = 7 amps ish so you'd probably pick a 10A fuse to account for the current spike at switch-on.

And that's basically enough electrical knowledge to get you burned as a witch on Land Rover forums :SVAgoaway:

Or you can be lazy and use my cable & fuse sizing calculator: http://fuddymuckers.co.uk/tools/cablecalc.html

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@FridgeFreezer
 For calculating fuse value from power I tend to use 12V as it gives you the worst case, in other words 100/12 = 8A. I think most stuff is power rated at 12V, so makes sense to me.

In this case you'd pick 10A anyways, but someone may have been tempted to pick a 7.5A fuse.

Becomes more important when dealing with 400W, at 12V that is 32A, at 14V that is ~28.5A.

Perhaps splitting hairs a bit but hey :)

 

Well that is two of us ready for burning.

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2 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

The conventional symbol for current is I, which originates from the French phrase intensité du courant,

Wow,.... all those physics lessons,..... I just know that it would have stuck instantly in my brain if someone had only told me the origin of the symbol. Something else learned today thank you.:)

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Indeed, I had to look it up, and I have a degree in electrical/electronic engineering!

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Posted (edited)

:lol: glad I asked. 

Well first phase of operation windscreen is complete. 8hr round trip and the second half with a screen standing in the boot of a Volvo shored up by two old tyres donated by the seller. Home safe. 

The screen is great save for one of the little connector plugs having torn from the metal ribbon. Tore at the base of the plug though so plenty of leader and all I hopefully have to do is open up the plastic grip on the plug, little solder and maybe some heat shrink to seal again. Otherwise it's in great nick and came out of the LSE especially for me. Will try and get a continuous signal from my multimeter in the morning, both leads are dodgy on it you see ;)

Edit; lest it seems I skimmed over it, very interested in all the physics above and will be digging into it and consigning to memory once understood. Thanks a mill

Edited by Shackleton

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Can't believe anyone breaks LSE's these days!! Anyway sounds like progress. Btw I only started the question of testing it to save hard earned cash at the point of outlay, I didn't mean to present extra difficulty!! ..............Waiting now for an update asap:)

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