Peaklander Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I'm posting this again in the correct thread in the hope that someone can help. I've completed the change of timing belt and tensioner etc on my 300TDi. Everything has gone well, I've followed the thread in the tech archive and I am right at the end but don't know how to tighten the crank bolt to 80Nm plus 90degs. I don't have the locking tool and it had undone very easily using the bar under the chassis. I'm using a clicky torque wrench - can't confirm its provenance but I can get to 80 but when I try harder to turn it through 90degs I'm just fighting the engine and gearbox (in 4th). So, firstly, should I put threadlock on the bolt (can't see definitive answers when I search) and secondly, how to I ensure it's tight enough? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Yes to threadlock I believe, I've always put some on. I used a locking tool to hold the engine still - doing it against the transmission seemed a bit off to me, there's a lot of 'spring' in it all which would make it hard to get the required torque. My method for tightening the bolt fully was a 5' pole and a 50lb fishing scale, which gave me the 250ft-lbs required on the 200Tdi. Though the second time I did borrow a proper big boy's torque wrench which went up to the required figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share Posted April 16, 2017 That 200 TDi torque is just huge. I'm going for 80 Nm which is 59 foot pounds so more achievable but still needs a longer bar than my 300mm I think. The trouble is I'm squashing the tyres against chocks so just don't have a hard stop to work against. As for a locking tool, I just don't know what to do as I don't have the workshop skills or material to make one Ok about some threadlock - I'll put some across three threads when I do refit. The other thing is that I used my clicky torque wrench to set the belt tension to 11Nm and I'm wondering if I should be more accurate and use a spring balance pulling my bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I use my clicky torque wrench when doing my 200tdi's timing belt, not had a belt snap yet in 24 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 It's relatively easy to calibrate your torque wrench if you have a spring balance. It is probably easiest to do it on a wheel nut using the spring balance with a lever of known length. Since most torque wrenches operate against a spring, provided it is in good condition, and since springs have a constant length change per unit of force (Hooke's Law, I believe), accuracy at one load should indicate accuracy at other loads. If your 11Nm for the belt tension is repeated on a wheel nut you can be confident that you've done it correctly. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share Posted April 16, 2017 Cheers guys that gives me more confidence and yes I can calibrate my wrench. I didn't think of that! So what about holding the crank? Have you achieved the torque just working against the engine/transmission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Sean f on here makes holding tools to stop the crank rotating whilst you tighten the bolt. Worth a pm. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share Posted April 16, 2017 Thanks Mo I'll give him a go. I can always try my local village garage - they've lent me bits and bobs in the past and maybe they have a locking tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Sorry, I meant to address that as well. I managed by inserting a suitable flat bar, about 2ft long, into one of the UJs, I forget which, and this locked the engine when it came against the concrete floor of my garage and I think I put it in reverse gear. Hope this helps. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I just press the brake pedal with the trans in fifth high. Use a suitable long lever with a gentle pull the springiness is not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share Posted April 16, 2017 OK this is getting better Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 If you can get a mate to stuff a thick flat blade screwdriver through the timing hole in the flywheel casing & into a tooth on the flywheel while you tighten the bolt it's much easier - same goes for undoing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share Posted April 16, 2017 Yes I've read about using the ring gear but isn't there a risk of breaking it or am I getting mixed up and the risk is breaking the thing that's being pushed in? I suppose that the ring gear is about as tough as it gets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I don't know what the crank pulley on the 300 tdi is like, but the tool I made for my 200tdi is pretty simple and easy to make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share Posted April 16, 2017 There are four bolt holes in the pulley but they are recessed so the tool needs to be quite deep at the end. Like having a piece of tube at the end to carry the bolts. That's why it's a bit more complex to make for a lightweight such as me ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 As far as I know the 300 doesn't officially use threadlock, though obviously you could (good luck undoing it next time). It is really hard to get it properly tight, even with the tool, the last time I did one I snapped an extension. I always mark the socket with a splash of paint so I know when it has done the 90 deg. I would suggest lubricate the bolt esp under the head and use a large pole and start turning as far anticlockwise as possible - without the tool you have to compress all the hub springs in the clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted April 17, 2017 Author Share Posted April 17, 2017 Yes that lubricant under the head sounds like a good tip, best not to have any friction. As for holding the crank, I guess I can try and see what torque I do manage to achieve. @muddy says using the brake / gearbox works. If it can't be taken up to spec and then the extra 90 deg then I'll have to find a tool. I sent the pm to @sean f too. Thanks for that@Mo Murphy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 I think another alternative would be to remove the sump and jam they crank with a block of wood, assuming you have something strong enough to tighten it. Ok, it would cost some time and rtv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted April 17, 2017 Author Share Posted April 17, 2017 Well I seem to have done it with the handbrake. I first of all checked my torque wrench with a spring balance. 80 Nm is 8.2 Kg force over a metre. My wrench is 0.41metres so I set the handle, put it on a wheelnut as suggested by Troll Hunter and pulled to 20Kg (8.2 div 0.41) on the spring balance which is a reasonable pull with your fingers. It clicked there or thereabouts. Then I got the box into 4th with difflock and handbrake on to the limit. Put some light oil behind the bolt head and on the washer and it clicked just as the crank turned so that must be the clutch slipping. Oddly there wasn't much rotation before it did reach torque which I put down to the low friction. So thanks Cackshifter for that tip. I think I'm done and it's on with the rest of the jobs. Does the experience seem correct, bearing in mind it's a 300 not a 200 I was trying to torque-up thank goodness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Hang on, you tighten to 80Nm, then turn another 90 deg. The 80Nm isn't the problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 1 hour ago, cackshifter said: Hang on, you tighten to 80Nm, then turn another 90 deg. The 80Nm isn't the problem! Yes I agree that it needs clarifying, I wasn't sure the first time I read @Peaklander s post that he'd understood the process, tighten to the torque setting THEN add a further 90' turn. Hopefully thats what he's done but the post could be read either way. HTH (EDIT) Then I read a previous post where he describes tighten + 90 so 'now' I think he has it ok :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litch Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Everytime I read this sort of thread I wonder why people just don't buy the correct tool? The aren't expensive, make carrying out the job a breeze and if you intend keeping this (or another) LR then you will probably use it again anyway. Also there is the chance to rent it out to another soul who would appreciate how much easier it makes the job and be willing to pay the price of a couple of beers to use it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted April 17, 2017 Author Share Posted April 17, 2017 Hi again, well you are correct in that I did know about the 90 deg but then I forgot as I was actually doing it. What a muppet. No excuses and thank you for checking and following up. Really - it's great. Litch yes I agree that the tool would be better - the point was that when I researched the whole job, I'd never seen anything that suggested that tightening would be harder to achieve than undoing. All my focus was on the latter. When I did realise that I have a problem, an internet search throws up several solutions - even just on this forum and hence the question. A crank tool is currently on eBay at £60 and it's not far away. I have exchanged messages with Sean F but he can't currently help. I'll take a fresh look tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 23 hours ago, Peaklander said: Yes I've read about using the ring gear but isn't there a risk of breaking it or am I getting mixed up and the risk is breaking the thing that's being pushed in? I suppose that the ring gear is about as tough as it gets... No, you won't break the ring gear, for one its very strong, second the leverage is much less at the ring gear than on the bolt. Locking the crank through the transmission does work but the tyres ultimately absorb a good bit of the torque. Locking the flywheel makes a much easier job of it, last resort for a hard to undo bolt if you're on your own is take starter off and pop something through the hole to lock the teeth- scaffold pole on a breaker bar and job done. Makes light work of torqueing back up too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 I can lend you the proper tool for the job if you want it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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