e-minor Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 I have range rover classic on standard air , and I have been through the mill like everyone else but I really like the self leveling suspension, after allot of issues with eas going up and down in traffic and spending allot of time and effort trying to sort the electronics I finally gave up, but I refuse to fit springs, so I have retro fitted mechanical lorry valves in the place of the height sensors and redone the air lines with ebay parts (6mm push fit air fittings and 6mm nylon tube) and the results are really good, the original sustem must have been based on these dimensions as the mechanical valves fell into place really See link to the picutres of the install I will add utube videos of it in action later the febi valve part number is 23563http://www.e-minor.co.uk/motor/RR/eas-remove/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Well done for persevering. I have yet to drive an air sprung RRC, but one day......maybe on the one-ten even Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-minor Posted May 14, 2017 Author Share Posted May 14, 2017 On 13/05/2017 at 3:27 PM, e-minor said: I have range rover classic on standard air , and I have been through the mill like everyone else but I really like the self leveling suspension, after allot of issues with eas going up and down in traffic and spending allot of time and effort trying to sort the electronics I finally gave up, but I refuse to fit springs, so I have retro fitted mechanical lorry valves in the place of the height sensors and redone the air lines with ebay parts (6mm push fit air fittings and 6mm nylon tube) and the results are really good, the original sustem must have been based on these dimensions as the mechanical valves fell into place really See link to the picutres of the install I will add utube videos of it in action later the febi valve part number is 23563http://www.e-minor.co.uk/motor/RR/eas-remove/ update - See videos the meter is pointing at the garage roof just gives an indication of movement All seems to be working well on testing, it is failry air hungry as the when driving the valves are fidgeting and releasing and adding air over every bump, obviously the valves are unintelligent and react straight away, its almost like active suspension it actually feels slight tighter on the road, as the vehicle leans the valves try and correct straight away Any questions ask (in@e-minor.co.uk) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 On 2017-5-13 at 4:04 PM, mickeyw said: Well done for persevering. I have yet to drive an air sprung RRC, but one day......maybe on the one-ten even I have done, and found it fidgety and jittery , but then it may have been a bad example of one I've also driven a P38 on coil conversion, ugh, couldn't get out of it quick enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Not that I have one of these things . . . but you never know. Thanks for figuring that out and putting up the part number and information. Are the new air valves just an on/off thing? Where does the extra air go to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Great it is nice to know there is a fall back position,..... like you, I like the air too much to get rid and at the moment I am committed to fixing the existing system which I am slowly getting my head round; Can you give us some idea what the ballpark spend on these valves is?? I fancy doing air on the back of the 130. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 OP gives the Febi part number as 23563. Currently on ebay for around £40ish each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-minor Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 10 hours ago, Davo said: Not that I have one of these things . . . but you never know. Thanks for figuring that out and putting up the part number and information. Are the new air valves just an on/off thing? Where does the extra air go to? this could be done on a disco2 or anything like that probably a p38 too, the released air gets shed from the valve itself, there is a permanent air supply, (connection 1) bag feed (connection2) the valves add or subtract air faster the further away from the center it goes they are very satisfying in the way they work honestly!! then once its at the limit, there is a mechanical over run with a big spring (needed for when jacking up etc... ) cost wise as said 40 ish each, probably 50 quids worth of pushfit fittings - a pressure switch 150-120psi is availiable for about 5£ reuse the existing air tank, the compressor can either be used from the original air suspension mine was shot so at the moment ive got a ring 900 tyre inflator but thats on its limit dont think it will last long, (they cost 79£) I am eyeing up a "VIAIR 444C BLACK AIR RIDE 12v VOLT 200PSI " at 200£ PS lookup on ebay the following "QUALITY GO KART KARTING TRACK ROD ENDS ROSE JOINT BEARINGS M5" about 3£ each, I bought 8x of these and some m5 stailess rod so I could make some connecting rods levers, but would you beleive the standard rubber rods are the correct length near enough to make it sit at the right height, but if you want to you can then play with the height that it controls to. on my air supply ive used a 1/8 npt air valve (look up DC 12V Electric Solenoid Water Air Valve Diesel Gas Boiler 1/8") and a delay on timer so when the compressor starts is releases air from the line to atmosphere for about 2 seconds so the compressor is not starting against tank pressure, ive had compressors stall in the past and burn out. oh and finally mine seems to be acting like a Citroen now so overnight the whole lot goes flat, I dont know where the air is leaking from but be warned that the valves my seep so if you dont like the flat look or are worried about longterm sitting on bumpstops this may not be for you, or fit 4x solenoid valves to each airbag, if you have a mind for it you can design the system to work how you want, you could even put more solenoids in and make an access mode, I couldnt be bothered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-minor Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, Bowie69 said: I have done, and found it fidgety and jittery , but then it may have been a bad example of one I've also driven a P38 on coil conversion, ugh, couldn't get out of it quick enough! this is true to be fair, ive got one on standard springs and one on air suspension, I love the air suspension leveling, and sitting at he right height, (nothing worse than a rrc thats not sitting straight), but the air does ride like carp, (yes ive changed shocks), when I drive my spring one its so much more comfortable Edited May 15, 2017 by e-minor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Oh, quite glad it is not just me then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Do you find the modified one is now better than when it was on its original system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 The classic is definitely firmer on EAS - it doesn't have that famous "magic carpet" ride - but it shouldn't be jittery. Mine was when I first got it, but that turned out to be because the air springs had gone hard with age. After I replaced the bladders it was much improved. Kind of the opposite of coils - they get firmer with age rather than softer, to the point of being downright unpleasant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Unfortunately with the demise of so many Boge levelling units, and owners fitting heavier springs to compensate, I doubt there are too many RRCs that still have their magic carpets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Do you have AC? If you haven't you could fit up a Sanden engine driven AC compressor to supply your air, if you have got AC but aren't bothered by it, you could re-use what you have They are VERY efficient, and you'd be able to switch it in an out easily with the pressure switch you currently have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-minor Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 I did wonder about engine driven but my ac is working (soft dash) thanks for the name I will look it up, I have driven it on an A road today and the compressor doesn't cut in too many times about 5 times on a 13 mile journey, its worse in town where the weight is shifting more causing the valves to react more, it will be a while before it sees a motorway because I am away, but in contrast 3 miles in town will see the compressor start about 5 times too. when I was designing it in my mind, there ware two problems I thought would kill the idea, 1) 4 valves all trying to level on an uneven surface... I thought they would fight and oscillate, but they dont 2) when axle articulating the valve that is compressed will just give the bag full line pressure until its level - the eas was a bit more clever than this. Consider mounting a pavement with one wheel, the valve will push that wheel down as hard as it can - and the opposite extended side will release pressure down to a minimum. (ps the valves never let all the air out, so bags wont deform), where-as the eas allowed the wheel to rise. I do still like the results of what I have done but I generally swan about in mine and do simple load lifting trailer work and people in the back, I dont go serious offroading. I also dont know what it would do to my insurance validation...! disclaimer for anyone wanting to try this, do so at your own risk. I also got reminded to never get under an air spring vehicle when a bag bust off because I had allowed it to crease over. I really like how it acts on the road but unfortunately I changed the rear air bags at the same time so I cant really confirm whats made mine stiffer, the ride is harder, and allows you to go faster, I am driving about 10mph faster than I did before but bear in mind my old eas had got in a bit of a mess. see 2x photos showing the difference when articulating - I have labeled the image itself, the photo with the wheel in the arch further is the EAS Oh and I am working on a project to replace the boge on my hard dash with a cab air bag, ive started another post about it, (generally the same thing but simpler, just one valve and an air bag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 7 hours ago, Bowie69 said: Do you have AC? If you haven't you could fit up a Sanden engine driven AC compressor to supply your air, if you have got AC but aren't bothered by it, you could re-use what you have They are VERY efficient, and you'd be able to switch it in an out easily with the pressure switch you currently have. I did that on my P38, it works very well indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Sander SD07 is the one, fitted to RRCs as it happens.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-minor Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 just realized i made a mistake with the photo comparisons, the ignition was off and the EAS lowers itself 'trying to put a leg down' when you stop the engine, thats why its so much lower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 The big thing with using an aircon compressor for air is lubrication. As per usual, there are a million Google results for this. Generally Sandens are converted to grease, or an inline oiler is used. I used the old York compressor on mine for compressed air, and added a Sanden for the aircon. Great thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 18 hours ago, e-minor said: Oh and I am working on a project to replace the boge on my hard dash with a cab air bag, ive started another post about it, (generally the same thing but simpler, just one valve and an air bag Couldn't see your other post, but that's a genius idea. Not heard of anyone trying that before. P.S. Nice Range Rover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) The Boge substitute thread is in the Defender forum. Edited May 17, 2017 by paintman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 I've heard of someone trying it or at least planning it - somewhere on the internet, which is the best I can remember! It's worth a try if you can make it work. Over here we can get the self-levellers rebuilt, (at least, I hope the company is still doing it), so I had that done. Though the thing then failed only a few years later and I was able to put on a good used one, which has made me think of alternatives. Someone used a Mazda 323 spring, but really any substitute has to have the same adjustability as the Boge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-minor Posted May 18, 2017 Author Share Posted May 18, 2017 Yes that me... This soft dash keeps que jumping over my hard dash But the job is getting close now, see photo But that's for the other thread really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 It was a few years ago, and just an idea someone was throwing around. In your case, it looks like you are actually doing it! Good on you, I'd love to see how it all goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-minor Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 right quick update after driving it for a few weeks and finalizing things, I made some new rods out of m4 go-cart track rod ends (or throttle body links) because I saw the front was sitting slightly high on the standard rubber rods, this has returned the ride harshness to the same as when it was on eas, its supprising how that 10 or 15 mm with of height at the front (and associated added air pressure) made the ride so much harder. I took out the ecu and reused the original relay wiring and made the light go out, I also managed to use the original height switches to do something, the lights tell me when the compressor is running, the the center inhibit switch turns the whole lot off if I ever need, I used the space under the seat where the eas was to do my own wiring and even put the pressure switch and a valve in there. I think the only disappointing thing is the air use is very high, I have now ordered a viair 444c compressor to keep up with the demand as my 'ring900' will fail if I keep pushing it to 150psi, and I am not keen on the system going flat over night but it does it equally and with 'some' grace, it just looks like its got broken suspension when its left for more than a few hours oh and the compressor is rubber isolated and that is an old server fan attached to the head for cooling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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