Jump to content
If you value this forum's future please support us
reb78

Another gearbox issue or clutch?

Recommended Posts

Thanks Mo. It made it home as well, so fingers crossed it's sorted!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Bollox! On the way to work this morning to pick up a colleague for a meeting in Hampshire and this happened again. Pulled out of a junction, got up to third, went to change to fourth and it was very stiff to pull out of gear and wouldnt go in any gears at all. I pulled over, turned off, could select all gears. In a hurry, I started in 3rd, clutch down, but could feel it grabbing so pulled away and drove home without stopping and used the overdrive to go 3rd to 3rd+OD.

Clutch hydraulics are all new. Clutch was a new Valeo back last October, HD clutch fork and release bearing (from Nige - HfH) fitted at that time. It must be an internal clutch plate issue. Neil (V8 Freak) and I have chatted and are going to change the clutch again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a fairly similar problem with a radial crack in the clutch cover - at high rpm it would open up and go out of shape, this would not allow the clutch to disengage untill the engine rpm dropped. From time to time it would basically jam the clutch in an engaged condition even though you could see and feel the release bearing work perfectly on the fingers.

It was a brand new cover and I fitted and re fitted it a few times before eventually admitting to myself it must be the fault.

Eventually I swapped the cover and it was fixed, I left the old cover outside in the rain at which point some rust identified the previously invisible crack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. Thanks. We think it must be something to do with that cover. I just can't beleive I'm dropping this box again! I wish I'd left the old clutch in when i last had the box off now!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, reb78 said:

Interesting. Thanks. We think it must be something to do with that cover. I just can't beleive I'm dropping this box again! I wish I'd left the old clutch in when i last had the box off now!!

To be honest when I realised what the fault was I felt pretty relieved it hadn't come apart and taken my legs off! I reckon the shrapnel might have come through the hosing and tinwork but that's just me being over dramatic I expect :-)

Anyway hopefully you will sort it out whatever the fault and if the box is out you may as well just bite the bullet and renew the lot.

I have a little creak from my spigot bush from time to time and I'll be living with that ;-)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had very similar intermittent problems with an identical setup. Most of the time fine then would become unusable at random points.....I put up with this for over a year , changing the hydraulics a couple of times, messing about with the height of the pedal etc etc.

 

I eventually gave in and dropped the box....I had put the clutch plate in the wrong way round!!

 

The springs in the plate were damaged where they had sometimes been fouling the flywheel bolts and sometimes not. I wonder if this is the same problem you are having and when it gets hot the springs expand a bit and hit the flywheel bolts?

 

I know this does not really hep you as the box still has to come out to find out the answer.

 

If it makes you feel any better though my clutch fork decided to split in half at the end (never seen one do that before) last Saturday just before we were taking the truck on holiday!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. It does help as it saves me changing hydraulics again. I think theres enough consensus that the problem is internal and clutch related to justify dropping the box again.

In the absence of any other decent mail order LR parts suppliers, I am buying everythign from LRDirect or Britcar now. Here is the list of available clutches, which would you guys buy? https://www.lrdirect.com/LR009366-Clutch-Kit/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Valeo or Borg and Beck

 

Britcar are in Ipswich near me and I have just started using them. They seem really decent and very helpful.

 

I used to swear by LRdirect but now I just swear at them! They have let me down twice in a row recently on urgent parts I paid extra for next day delivery and which never showed.

In contrast I recently requested a price on an order of around 350 individual parts for one vehicle at a value of around £1,500. LRdirect couldn't even be bothered to quote  - said it was too much work (I provided the part numbers!!!). Paddocks priced it all up, gave me discount, kept me in the loop with the order and when I had 1 very minor issue with a missing part they had it shipped next day direct from a supplier. They really were amazing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right - I need more advice. The clutch has arrived but I am still not sure about the diagnosis.

The 110 has been parked up for over a week. I tried it again this evening and couldn't get it in gear with the engine on. It will go in gear with the engine off and will also go in gear with it running and the transfer box in neutral.

If I start the car in gear with the clutch down, I can feel the clutch catching but can stop the vehicle moving if I have my foot on the brake. You literally cannot wrench it out of gear at all. There is absolutely no possibility of driving it without the clutch by matching the revs. 

I started stripping down and thought I would check the gear selector, bush and grub screw as others have mentioned earlier in the thread. It was all normal. I changed the bush anyway, the grub screw was nice and tight. I out the turret back on, started up and it was working. Weird. Seemed ok for a bit, then started playing up again. No gears available. Its been a bit intermittent since doing it on and off. I think the turret fiddling and it working was a coincidence.

Does anyone have any other thoughts. Is this still likely to be the clutch?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It has to be in the clutch area if you can select gears with the engine shut down.  It could be that the clutch is dragging because the plate is in the wrong way around (no insult intended; it's an easy mistake), an uneven flywheel or pressure plate surface, a faulty clutch plate or a problem with the spigot bush or the end of the input pinion where it sits in the bush.  

The clutch hydraulics are working properly, aren't they, and the fork in good order and the release bearing sitting correctly on the end of the fork, not rotated so the sleeve shoulders are off the fork prongs?  I seem to recall a discussion about different release bearings on different Tdis or the LT77 vs R380, and that would be hard to spot by eye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. Thats helpful. Box off to check all of that.

Pretty sure the hydraulics are good. They are all new, branded (TRW or Dephi cant remember which) components, all bled etc.

The release arm and bearing are the HD versions from HfH on here as they seemed sensible upgrades, so I hope there isn't a problem there.

The spigot bush was the only thing I didn't change when i did the clutch - this was because the one i was sent was an incorrect size and everywhere was shut on the Sunday when I was refitting the box.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Release bearings 

 

LT 77 = FTC5200

'Stumpy' R380 = UTJ100210 this one is approx 10mm shorter than the LT77 bearing. but doubt this is the problem on your 110, 

is the clutch pedal pushrod set up correct.?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thansk Ralph. Pretty sure it is. I changed the pedal in between all of this as well so it has done it on the old and new (TD5 pedal) so fairly sure the pedal is ok.

Nige sent me the release bearing for the LT77 (FTC5200 equivalent), but i will measure it when it is out tomorrow to check.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We think we found the problem. 

IMG_8579.thumb.JPG.0f56352e5301419195835ef8969c8774.JPG

IMG_8580.thumb.JPG.5cc0b8893d2f541515c809a769e61273.JPG

IMG_8581.thumb.JPG.9822270ba70faf1aeb3486e015a2279d.JPG

IMG_8582.thumb.JPG.fa5970dc192eb28b244afdd71f453a6a.JPG

Pressure plate, clutch material and spigot bush all replaced. 

Reports from Rich last night suggest he got home without issue and the use of all gears!!!

I'll leave a space now for him to fill in any gaps for you...

Neil

(Anyone else need a clutch / gearbox change? Getting quite good at this lark!)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that good news, :i-m_so_happy:

not much friction material left either.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad it sorted, hope the gearbox fault doesn't mean removing it again, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to see you have found the problem , am I right that the clutch was 10 months old ?

 

cheers

 

Steve  b

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, steve b said:

Good to see you have found the problem , am I right that the clutch was 10 months old ?

 

cheers

 

Steve  b

Yep. I bought and fitted it in October 2016. Pretty poor! It was a Borg and Beck unit with 6 centre springs. 

What we found explains the rattle at idle!! It's much quieter now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a conversation with Dirtydiesel a few years ago about premature clutch failure and he mentioned high gearing as a factor - I have a 1.222:1 TB in a heavy 109 SW and sometimes run 255/85 - 16 . My previous clutch failed at around 60k miles in the same way - about 5 years ago and I now need to replace the gearbox and TB so will be fitting a 1.41:1  and replacing the clutch too while I can see it .

  What I'm getting around to asking is how do you use the overdrive ?

 

cheers

 

Steve  b

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only really use it above 50mph. So cruising on faster roads. It's got a speed sensor to stop you engaging it in lower rpm high torque situations. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But do you use the clutch when you operate the overdrive?  As I understand it, the GKN behaves much like an autobox and technically doesn't need clutch disengagement to switch back and forth between disengaged and engaged.  That's fine for the overdrive, presumably, but still results in a shock load to the rest of the system that an automatic would not suffer because of the torque converter.  If you use the clutch for overdrive operation, you should prevent the shock loads, protecting all of the system, including the clutch plate itself.

It'd be interesting to know the clutch failure rates of GKN equipped vehicles vs Roverdrive equipped, as the Roverdrive does require clutch disengagement for its operation.  The trouble is in getting useful information, as vehicle weight, driving style, region and maintenance would all have a bigger influence than this alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now




×