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Yes I am a woman so my knowledge of engines etc is limited. So i need some help.

I have recently bought a Freelander td4 hse model, 2004 . On taking it to my local garage with some minor issues after purchase I have discovered that the propshaft has been removed and it is in fact a 2WD not a four! Yes I am wrangling over the garage about this and they are willing to send the prop up to my local garage to be refitted. They havent really given me a reasonable explanation as to why they removed it in the first place. However, i took the car into the garage yesterday as it had a vibration on it (i thought it might be a bulge in the tyre) howvere they have now advised its the transfer box. 

My question is: Has the removal of the prop shaft put more wear on the transfer box. Is it advisable to even remove it and is it safe to drive while there are issues with it and what is likely to happen if i continue to drive it in the meantime of hassling with the garage?

Your answers will be much appreciated.

 

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Hi Sally,

Don't tell some of the women round here that :ph34r:

The transfer box has already seized (that will be why the prop shaft had been removed). You won't make it any worse by driving it as it is, and you shouldn't refit the propshaft until the transfer box has been fixed.

The transfer box includes the centre differential which allows the front and rear wheels to turn at different speeds, which happens when you are turning a corner. On a freelander this differential has a viscous coupling which allows a certain amount of difference in the speed, but locks when there's a lot of difference. This is important off road - it means if you have a wheel in the air or on slippery ground other wheels will keep turning and keep you moving - without the viscous coupling (and the traction control) all the power would go to the wheel in the air which would spin like mad while the other wheels stopped and you went nowhere.

The viscous couplings fail with age, and when they do they fail locked - if you drive a Freelander with a failed viscous coupling (and both it's prop shafts on) you'll feel and hear the tyres "scrubbing" (dragging across the ground) when you turn tight slow corners - parking, for instance. They can, of course, be replaced.

A seized visous coupling puts a lot of strain on the drivetrain when driving on grippy surface like tarmac, so it's common practice to remove on of the propshafts until the viscous coupling can be repaired properly (this allows the wheels to turn at different speeds - but limits you to two wheel drive.

The fact that the garage have the missing propshaft strongly suggests that they removed it because they knew the viscous coupling had failed, in order to hide this from prospective buyers.

Did the car come with any kind of warranty you can claim against? If not, and the selling garage won't pay for sorting the transfer box, there may some mileage in contacting trading standards? I'm not sure where you'd stand legally if the car was "sold as seen" - but I'm guessing that a four wheel drive vehicle with parts of it's drive train removed to mask faults might not count as fully roadworthy? Anyone with better knowledge of the law round this able to weigh in?

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Hi Geoff

Thanks for your reply.

I have argued with them that they removed the prop shaft for a reason to which he has tried to fob me off by saying it was to make it more fuel efficient. However I wasnt informed that it was only a 2wd vehicle as I wouldnt have bought it.

I have bought the car with 6 months warranty supposedly but again, because I was buying from a garage a distance away (someone went and looked at it on my behalf) and had it delivered the warranty paperwork was missing and is something else I have been trying to get out of him from the start. Speaking to him yesterday though he is saying that if the transfer box has gone through wear and tear then the warranty wont cover it.

Edited by Sally S
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Thank you Geoff for quoting the basic Freelander mechanics, as I had a much vaguer understanding.

Regarding " Anyone with better knowledge of the law round this able to weigh in? "; I don't have that, but I know a man (web site) that does - cue Honest John.
The HJ FAQ list.

In that is item 5 - CONSUMER RIGHTS. How do I reject a duff car or get compensation for problems with a car I have bought from a dealer?

It is a long page, and starts with new vehicles, but less than a quarter of the way down you get to the section:

WHAT CAN YOU DO IF YOUR NEW CAR OR YOUR RECENTLY PURCHASED USED CAR DEVELOPS MAJOR FAULTS? 

The FAQ now gets into the much more complex aspects of the various pieces of legislation and case law.
While this gives you your legal rights based on statutory regulations and case law, it's obviously always best to attempt to negotiate first. 

A dealer might try to use a lot of flannel to try to wriggle out of a claim, but as soon as you start asserting your rights by quoting the appropriate case law, in particular Clegg v Olle Andersson, he may capitulate.
The limit for claims in the Small Claims Track of the County Court was raised from £5,000 to £10,000, as from April 2013, making this service much more useful in disputes over purchases of cars.
Small Claims cases should be commenced via moneyclaim.gov.uk , which is cheaper than the Small Claims Track of the County Court.

After that you get into the meat of the matter; time to polish your screen, your specs, draw up a notepad with pen, read and make notes, or print !!

Having admitted to removing the propshaft, ('admitted' because they have agreed to send it to you), they have effectively given you a loaded pistol, all you have to do is point it at any point of their anatomy you choose, and issue instructions.

Regards.

 

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Thank you for this, I never knew a forum like this would be so helpful...being of the female gender I had visions of men rolling eyes and comments as such. But this has been very helpful and yes I have just pointed said gun and pulled the trigger...just waiting a response.

Many thanks again

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Hmm - there are plenty of us on here, regardless of gender, who have been caught out by dodgy car traders.

I still think a call to trading standards would be worthwhile.

Interestingly, if he's saying that he removed the prop shaft to make the car more fuel efficient then you can argue that his actions have resulted in the failure of the viscous coupling (ie. It's incompetent work rather than wear and tear, which may bring the warranty into play). It's also going to look very dodgy if you take them to court, provided you can prove they said it or get them to repeat it...

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If you like the car & want to keep it then you might make an argument that you'll be needing a new viscous coupling unit (VCU - the vital part of the propshaft that causes the problems) and most likely a replacement IRD (the transfer box) which has by the sound of it suffered damage (as is very common) due to a seized VCU.

VCU's can be had for about £250 from Bell Engineering, DO NOT accept a 2nd hand one from anywhere. Fitting is a fairly easy job if you have the old propshaft complete, couple of hours at absolute most.

IRD's are about £1000 (or £1500 ish from Land Rover), fitting varies, I think the TD4 is a bit of a pain but mine was swapped in less than a day by a 1-man mobile mechanic.

 

If you'd rather not bother I'd suggest you've got strong grounds to throw the car back at them, get a full refund and buy something else from someone else.

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I THINK Bell Engineering will do the recon IRD's for ~£700 too.

I'm trying to decide whether to preemptively replace the VCU on mine, as it's a 100k Auto and I don't think it's ever been replaced - all the research I've done seems to suggest that Bell are the people to talk to.

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Hi Sally

It sounds to me like you've got them bang to rights. I would use the threat of court action and if they try wriggle off the hook I'd start court proceedings (about £100 I believe) and watch them have a nasty accident in their pants. Worst case scenario is it would get to court and on the day their solicitor decides to settle out of court a few minutes before the hearing (very common) but again that gives you even more ammunition for compensation. 

Let us know how you get on. Idiots like that need to be stopped from ripping people off. 

Good on you for standing your ground

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