skirky dave Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 High guys, Ok, this is driving me mad, my 2.5 n/a has developed an annoying ticking noise.It's a revolutionary sound so..the faster i go the faster it ticks.So i bought myself a mechanics stethoscope.After poking around for what seemed an age i decided to start at the top of the engine. The ticking can be heard coming from number 1 Injector and number 3. I then changed number 2 injector to number 1 as number 2 sounds ok and number 1 to number 2. But still the same sound, Ticking!!! At first i thought it might be an injector so, i took them to Sheaf Diesel specialist in Sheffield who tested them and they said," Perfect mate, nothing wrong with them at all, there spot on" So refitted them with new washers etc etc and still it ticks. Next thing to check was the Vacuum Pump, Nope, everything good there as well. Maybe diesel lift pump although a had just fitted a brand new one two weeks ago, Nope all good there also. No ticking sounds at all. Next thing to check was listening to the oil sump, nope all good there also. Engine block...nope no sound from there. So... i drove to Sheffield Engine Services and had a word with someone who said, "Well she sounds sweet enough,but the ticking to me sounds as though it's coming from the bottom end, but there again sound does travel you know. If it was me i would re/check the tappets and take it from there". I got home, took off the rocker cover and started checking the gaps,..some were a little off so re tightened. Started up the engine to check if everything was ok and it was. Apart from the ticking noise. Anyway..this got me thinking, if it's something on the bottom end,..what could be causing a ticking sound, Same applies to the top end,..... IT'S DRIVING ME MAD. Any ideas guys, your help / input would be most welcome. Many thanks Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Try running the engine with the fan belt off - that would eliminate fan belt, alternator or water pump. At first I would have said injectors, try slackening the feed to each injector in turn. Does it vary with engine load, try revving in neutral then driving in a gear higher than you normally would. Does it come and go if you press the clutch pedal - I had similar symptoms when a spring came off the thrust pad of a non-diaphragm clutch. Does it have a timing pointer on the crankshaft pulley? If so is it catching the pulley somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 rtbarton Hi, and thanks for your reply, Not tried running with fan belt off but when listening with scope both on and around the water pump,( which is brand new ex nato stock) not britpart, everything is quiet, Same applies to the alternator and surrounding areas, all quiet. Tried slackening each injector and same noise. If i leave the engine to idle, out of gear, the sound is still there but obviously quieter. As i drive the motor and going through the gears, the sound gets louder until up to 40 mph then it seems to all but disappear. If i depress the clutch the sound is still there No pointer on crankshaft pulley to catch anything. This was originally a Sherpa 2.5 n/a before the conversion with the 19j 2.5TD timing cover. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Not a tiny amount of piston slap happening? Or piston hitting head due to worn bearings? As you say it doesn't transfer when moving external parts, it is beginning to sound internal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I think a leaky head gasket can cause a ticking noise, are there any signs of leakage, sooty marks &c round the joint between the head and the block? Emulsion or bubbles in the coolant? Same goes for exhaust manifold joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 Bowie69 Hi mate hows it going? When the timing belt snapped last time, Sheffield Engine Services skimmed and pressure tested the head for me and whilst the head was off, we tried moving the pistons in all directions but there was no movement at all, Rock Solid. We also had a look at the bores and they seemed ok also. I agree, it does sound as though somethings amiss internally, But the problem is, once everything is shut down and quiet how do i know what to look for. I have no idea as to what dodgy Big End bearings sound like in an engine. Cheers mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 rtbarton Everything looks good there, no soot or any form of tracing anywhere. Coolant looks spot on also. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 I know this might sound a little strange so please bear with me, but the sound is a little, as though, someone is rattling a thin ripped off baked bean tin lid in a glass pint pot but higher pitched, sort of a ting ting ting ting ting sound. That's the best description i can offer, if you can call it that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 That descriptive sound is based upon using the stethoscope on the injectors 1and3 at idle. Obviously this can be heard more in the drivers seat once driving. ANNOYING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 timing belt snapped? you presumably had a collision - did you check the rockers and pushrods when you put it back together? you can adjust out a slightly bent pushrod at the tappet - clearances can be fine but not the right length and they can tick when bent. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 GW8IZR Hi, yes i replaced all new pushrods , Dayco belt, Idler then set tappets etc etc. Beginning to think that Bowie69 may be onto something here. Just don't know what to look for as i've never tackled this job before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 It's a light ish metalilc tapping sound, hard to explain. Not a heavy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Yes its frustrating when you change all the obvious bits and do everything right and it still has a problem, we've all been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 GW8IZR The timing belt issue was a few months ago and it's only in the last few weeks that this problem has occurred. Yes your right, it's very frustrating having to deal with yet a further problem, Love hate relationship at times. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 8 hours ago, GW8IZR said: ... you can adjust out a slightly bent pushrod at the tappet - ... Trouble is once a pushrod is bent it will continue to bend further in use, you will have to keep adjusting the tappets. Because they're under compression they have to be dead straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 No No No your mis understanding me .. I'm saying you can adjust out the bend and not realise its bent! Later on it bends further and starts ticking etc.... same with a cracked / damaged rocker, it can look OK for a while then fail catastrophically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 3, 2017 Author Share Posted July 3, 2017 Ok,..If, as Bowie69 has suggested, that it could be piston hitting head due to worn bearings?, How's the best way to approach this. Do i require standard size bearings or slightly larger, and HOW do i know which size. Bearing in mind, that, i do not have a garage, and ALL the work must be undertaken on the driveway laid on my back. Has anyone made a video of this job, in this situation. Most video's are done in a fully equipped workshops, etc etc. I have also noticed that my engine is starting to breath a little heavy so....piston rings may need doing and possibly the bores de/glazing,..maybe. Again, another job i've never done. Problems problems. I should point out, that, the motor pulls like a train and goes very very well, Seems like a contradiction in terms but, it does go very well.. Anyone else that could possibly shine a light on this, LES, SNAGGER, ETC. Cheers by the way Bowie69. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 It sounds like it could be loose/cracked swirl inserts in the head , the only way to confirm this is to remove the head - not a hard job on the drive way . If the big/small end bearings were worn enough to allow piston contact I'm pretty sure you would hear the knocking when driving . Either way removing the head will show any problems and allow a basic inspection of the bores . cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Steve just beat me to it. The swirl chambers or "hot spots" in the head are directly below the injectors and have a strong tendency to come loose. That can lead to them breaking up and destroying the pistons and causing head and bore damage, so I'd pull the head sooner rather than later to check them. They are a replaceable part, but they have to be fitted by a workshop as they are supposed to be an interference fit and will need skimming flush with the head face. Bottom end bearings wear, but checking them is easy as you just need to drain and remove the sump for access for the big ends. The gudgeon pin bearings rarely wear significantly. The only other plausible source would be worn or sticking cam followers beneath the push rods. But my money is on the swirl chambers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 3, 2017 Author Share Posted July 3, 2017 steve b / Snagger Cheers for that guys, Looks like taking the head off is becoming a part time job for me. I seem to have had the the head off more times than Henry V111 lately. Snagger, nice to hear from you again Nick, hope your ok. If you remember my last post ( Expert Help Required ) you and Les helped me out massively, so cheers for that. Here's hoping that you and Steve b can nail this one on the head for me. The hot spots were fitted last year if you remember, part of having the head skimmed and pressure tested. Never done cam followers, what's that entail guys ?. Anyway..all in all, this sounds like fun. Cheers steve b / Nick. Appreciate your help. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Dave I haven't got the factory manual in front of me but from memory I'm sure they are seated proud of the head by a couple of thou ? I wasn't aware of your recent work , where did the chambers come from ? cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 3, 2017 Author Share Posted July 3, 2017 I bought them from a land rover parts dealer but i can't remember the name. If i think back, they were about £20-25. I was going to buy them from Turner Engineering but they were far more expensive. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 3, 2017 Author Share Posted July 3, 2017 That was £20=25 for 4 delivered free, do they sound like cheapo's. LR Direct sell them for £9.80 each inc vat plus delivery, and Turner's are £18 each inc vat plus delivery What the difference is , i don't know??. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 The difference would be metallurgy. The cheap ones would be some low grade Chinese or Indian rubbish, while the expensive ones will be more temperature tolerant and hold their dimensions better. Even so, they're a common problem on the 10J 2.25l and the 12, 14, 15 and 19J 2.5l diesels (NA and TD). If it's the cam followers, then you still need to remove the head, and then undo the row of 8 bolts along the right side of the block just above the head. Fish out the brass slides that the push rods sit into, then the rollers (need to make a stiff hook from wire, like a coat hanger) followed by the guide tubes. The rollers can develop flat spots, resembling a 50p piece, and that would cause noise as well as performance issues. It could damage the cam lobes too, so inspect them by turning the engine over by hand. Before you go to all that trouble, though, do make sure it's not the fuel lift pump making the noise - that's far easier to change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 Hi Nick, cheers for getting back to me. I'm trying to upload some images for you but Mcaffe won't let me. Got my son involved in this, so... The lift pump was replaced only a few weeks ago to be honest and i did listen around that part with no dodgy noises coming from round there. However.......As soon as i lifted the cylinder head by two inches,..plop. Hot spot fell out. Is this the cause of the ticking noise??. Need another one and then back to the engineers. More images to follow. Seems you and Steveb was right on the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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