=jon= Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 http://jalopnik.com/bollingers-200-mile-electric-truck-is-fantastically-rug-1797333580 Looks like they took many pages out of the series / defender book when they were designing this!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 been posted on some of the land rover pages on facebook to. claimed 200 mile range isn't much though & The car is expected to cost $60,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 I really like this although I'm a little sceptical that they will meet the claimed specs in such a short time.. but who knows. I wouldn't be keen to do 127MPH in it either.. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2hse Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Apart from it looking like a Nissan Safari and not Jeep, I wonder how you get on for parts with such a small team. Would like to see some video and flex, it's too shiny at the moment. Information about the drive train would be useful too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I really fancy that, but there is no way it will get through UK/EC safety regulations, (too many sharp corners). I'd guess it is bought in "oily" bits, the tech bit is the battery conditioning and invertor. My wife wants an EV convertible, her usual commute is under 50 miles, so a silent soft-top would be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 The law wouldn't give it a chance in New Zealand either, which is a shame because there is lots to like about aspects of the design. The range is limiting but there are plenty of scenarios where it would work out. It will be interesting to see if it goes anywhere (commercially speaking!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Electric vehicles get to bend plenty of safety regulations on account of being politically correct. Just look at the death trap that was the G-Whiz. I wouldn't be the slightest surprised to see them allowed. Besides, the safety regs that supposedly stopped EU and US sales of Defenders don't stop the Jeep Wrangler, which has near identical construction and safety, and the emissions that stopped Defender production don't affect the Ford Transit. It's pure politics and money, not legitimate safety that determines a vehicle's sale. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 ...And there was me thinking you couldn't get any more slab-sided than a Foers Ibex or a UMM Alter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Oh, I just noticed it has a winch. I'd love to see the batteries that will allow that to be used in anger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesBrooks Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, mickeyw said: Oh, I just noticed it has a winch. I'd love to see the batteries that will allow that to be used in anger Winches about 3kW? BMW i3 motor is 130kW. Edited August 3, 2017 by WesBrooks Remove pic from quote and correct motor rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesBrooks Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I'm looking forward to tearing apart a few of these current electric cars and seeing what I can do in a home build in a decade or so once the get cheap second hand. Torque curve of the electric motors would appear to have IC engines beat for off roading. Trouble is our usual builds are just too heavy for decent range. Other slight issue is many companies are leasing the batteries rather than selling them with the car. With a hilly 70-90 mile round trip to work, family 180 miles south, and an annual mileage of 20-25k miles electric just isn't cost effective for me yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I was thinking about this the other day with respect to converting our current vehicles. Couldn't someone develop an electric motor that sits where the current engine is and bolts to the gearbox and bellhousing? Is this too simplistic? I think the Tesla for example has a two speed box so perhaps the gearboxes are unnecessary with EV, but it could be a simple replacement if it were possible to bolt an electric motor up using a range of different back plates to mount to the LR gearbox range? This would then maintain the 4x4 system as it is? There would be loads of room for batteries as i would presume that the electric motor wouldn't need the space the current engines do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesBrooks Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) The combo of gearbox and clutch or gearbox and torque converter are to compensate a little for the 0 torque output of an IC engine from 0 rpm upto stall speed, and of course the peak torque being some where around 2k rpm. Straight onto the transfer box would probably be an option, but thanks to the brick like aerodynamics I'd forget about trying to get any decent range at motorway speeds. I think aiming to replace the transfer box with something a little more purpose built that allowed the complete disconnect of a small petrol engine so that it could run electric only would be ideal. That way you could do a long distance trip if needed but get the bonus of monster torque when needed while only running something diddy like a sub 1l toyota three pot. Do the same adaptive charging trick seen on modern alternators to get a little regenerative braking. The two speed on the tesla is probably to enable the electric motor to run a little more effectively at both the higher speeds and lower speeds. From my limited experience with RC electric models there is still an element of it can be wired for low torque or high speed. Perhaps the more recent electric vehicle motors are wired for both with multiple windings. Edited August 3, 2017 by WesBrooks Comment on two speed tesla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Reminds me of the electric car the trio made on top gear... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Of course Land Rover had electric Defenders running round not long ago, which seemed to work well and also promised a modest range. Faaaaarr more appealing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 9 hours ago, WesBrooks said: Perhaps the more recent electric vehicle motors are wired for both with multiple windings. I had a look at the motor in an E-UP! about 18 months ago, there were quite a few control and monitoring conductors but there were enough heavy current connections to convince me it was multi phase. It was also very small - in a few years these will start to be available and there are some exciting options on the horizon, if I decided to go that way I'd not use a transfer box as I'm convinced two of those motors would propel a 90 very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 17 hours ago, reb78 said: I was thinking about this the other day with respect to converting our current vehicles. Couldn't someone develop an electric motor that sits where the current engine is and bolts to the gearbox and bellhousing? Is this too simplistic? I think the Tesla for example has a two speed box so perhaps the gearboxes are unnecessary with EV, but it could be a simple replacement if it were possible to bolt an electric motor up using a range of different back plates to mount to the LR gearbox range? This would then maintain the 4x4 system as it is? There would be loads of room for batteries as i would presume that the electric motor wouldn't need the space the current engines do? I've got an old LRO magazine featuring someone who converted a Range Rover, and this would be about 25 years ago, so yes, it should be perfectly possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Motors have moved on leaps and bounds. The manufacturing tolerances have increased which has reduced the air gap which has upped efficiency. The motors driving the hydraulic pumps on the moulding machines at work used to be so big you couldn't get your arms around them, now they're servo motors that you can carry in one arm and use a fraction of the electricity. The motor on an electric vehicle is far more energy efficient than a conventionally fuelled engine and the greater rpm range and power delivery band is more efficient than a conventional gearbox setup. The weak point in the vehicle at the moment is energy storage and the weak point in the UK is energy generation. Petrol stations are planning to put charging points in but from the user point of view what are you meant to do at a petrol station for a few hours whilst you top up and what do you do if you get there and people are using them? From an environmental point of view unless the petrol station are going to put enough renewable on site to power them then where is the electricity coming from? The hybrid is good for moving pollution from congested areas to free flowing areas which helps cities meet their targets but your generating electricity with the engine, doing extra conversions always has a loss of energy so its only going to improve emissions if you can use the electric bit to avoid idling the engine or crawling in cities. Then again I read plans by highways to cover motorways with tunnels to cut down emissions in built up areas. That could be interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Teslas take about eight to ten hours to fully charge off the portable charger, quicker from the driveway charger they'll fit at your home, and under 30 minutes from their "superchargers", according to their shop staff. Have those super chargers at petrol station equivalents and it'll work well enough. The trouble is electricity generation, as cynic-al said, and renewable sources aren't going to be close to enough or reliable enough. Those times were from US shop staff; they may be quicker on European 230-240v systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 I've sat watching the Tesla taxis in Oslo recharge at lunch time, in the time taken for me to eat burger, chips and a cup of dubious tea the taxi's were off on their way. Maybe not a full charge (guess) but the drivers obviously thought it worth a circa 15 minutes stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 IIRC Si R on here converted a Freelander to electric power a whole ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 The Eden Project has an electric 110 using a motor where the engine was. I think I read that Kew Gardens did something similar, and one of the mags recently featured a Swiss Series 1 with a big electric motor connected to an LT230, so it has been done successfully several times. I best like Ricardo's prototype from about 15 years ago with the drum motors on each hub, each wheel independently driven, so no transmission, diffs, props or half shafts. That gives the ultimate in traction, like constant difflock with electronic ratio control for cornering on tractive surfaces, the best ground clearance with no diff housings or props, and the greatest weight saving while keeping as much of the weight retained as low as possible, having all four motors at wheel level and all the batteries in the chassis voids so the load bay was completely unaffected. But if that never becomes commercially viable, a Tesla-like system of motors mounted on each axle, eliminating the engine, transmission and prop shafts, seems good. Again, it'd need some sort of modification to the electronic control to match front and rear axles on the different wheel base with bigger tyres than Teslas have, but I'm sure that would be easily done by kit provider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I tried to do something similar for a ride on land rover for my son but the motor and gearbox were just too big to have behind such a small wheel. I did think about running a chain up the "radius arm" and having the motor up in the body but a second hand commercially made one came up locally so I just bought that out of laziness. It would be great if they could get the drive down at the wheel, lose weight and the designers would love the freedom of not being restricted to the conventional layout. It would also be great for modular vehicles, a bit like how the camper companies buy a van cab with engine, drivetrain, seats etc installed and bolt their chassis / coachwork to the back of it. A manufacturer could supply the axles, drive etc and smaller companies could build the body. Utility, camper, multidrop delivery etc. I could cope stopping at a services for 30 minutes or an hour charge if I'd driven 300 or 400 miles, I used to have to do that for driving hours in the lorries anyway, but not every 100 miles which is all a lot of the cars can do at the moment. I'd even be nervous having one as a second car as although my wife only uses her car for commuting and shopping, long trips are always in my car, her commute is 90 miles. It's a bit on the edge. I think taxis are a special case as in cities they do shortish trips then park in a rank for a while so they can keep topping up. They were using compressed air in India at one point for taxis but I don't know how it got on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesBrooks Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Using compressed air is inefficient. Hub motors may be fine if you are crawling but increases unsprung weight and where gearing is needed exacerbates this further. They are also subjected to the highest levels of shock/impulse on the vehicle apart from the tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Have to agree, the unsprung weight of a mass of copper windings is something that will be exceedingly difficult to overcome. Having said that, I have failed to find a modern car that rides properly even with a normal engine in it, so maybe the public don't care... A motor per axle (not beam) seems a sensible compromise, and easy to switch from two to four wheel drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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