Bollinger Electric 4x4

[elbekko]

25 minutes ago, lo-fi said:

servicing costs are also much less

I wouldn't bet on that with a Tesla, with all the issues that are floating around. You'd better have a dealership nearby, or it's going to cost you a whole lot of time. Grab an e-Golf for the same price and save yourself the trouble.

[lo-fi]

By the time I finally get my hands on one I'd hope that's all been put right  

Lots of new stuff coming up now, so might be something I'd rather buy by then. I definitely favour a designed-from-the-ground-up-to-be-electric something, though. The E Golf and suchlike smack of the tail (marketing department) wagging the dog (engineering) and I'd be loathed to support that kind of anti-innovation. I want new, exciting and shexshy if I'm going to buy my first ever "new" car

If I was in the market for a utility vehicle, that Bollinger would definitely catch my attention over an electric Defender (much as I love them). 

[Shackleton]

The world of DIY EV conversions is huge and burgeoning. EV's are the future and in DIY form more versatile than many production models. You can buy cherry picked kits for converting your own vehicle of choice. Max torque is instant and in terms of range; battery tech is on a massive upward curve. To be honest I was surprised reading this thread from the start that the LR4x4 project junkies hadn't already started on an EV or two. People are hacking crashed Teslas/BMW's/Japanese EVs for parts and to get to more power. California is full of shops [and Youtubers] turning out custom customer grade EV's. 

The Oslo taxi model is being watched internationally. They have both hydrogen stations and EV charge stations dedicated and the law there says a Taxi has to have a min range of 300km with four people and their luggage. By the way last I checked they were supposed to be rolling out 26 hydrogen stations in the UK, and there were already 60 in California. EV's will be hydrogen fuelled ultimately, at least that's what all the car companies are developing for. There's a lot of interesting intel out there, a pal never stops talking about it and he's waiting for the new Tesla too. There's a two door RRC converted somewhere on the net, It has two motors iirc. He was trying to use it to bash me into giving a damn. It's supposed to be great, I'll link it if I can find it.

Yep this is the RR, I was sure there was build stuff online but can't find it just now:

This is Damien Maguire, I'll pass no comment but my pal reckons he's a man to watch to learn the in depths, and hacks on EV's:

Here's Butler Henderson in an [out of date] EV Defender: 

 

            

 

 

[Bowie69]

I will admit to have been toying with the idea of EVing my Morris Traveller, but I have the 18,000 mile 1275 engine that is begging for a turbo!

Biggest issue is the price of batteries, I wanted a sporty little hack that would run on fresh air (compared to my audi quattro), and be a bit of rear wheel drive fun.... but to then sink £4K in lead acid batteries, or £12K in LION batteries, it makes the whole thing rather unaffordable. I would daily drive it whatever, just not ideal cost wise.

I've seen more photos on that RRC EV build... can't find it now.

[Shackleton]

Mate I got on to a pal in the UK who maintained his Morris woody himself to ask if he used any particular forums but he said there were none and he just used a manual and the mmoc.co.uk [morris minor owners club]. Sorry.

What's the 1275 from? If you have a choice use an A+ block from a later Metro, they're ribbed [for your pleasure] on the outside so they don't flex with big [turbo] power. I always fancied the supercharger kit you can buy for the A-series though.

Search for videos on making your own batteries using 18650 cells, yeah it's more work but it's much cheaper than the monies you're quoting and you can custom build to the output you need. I'll ask my pal about it, he's encyclopaedic on the whole EV thing.

Edit: in the meantime I realise I wasn't listening properly about the batteries, so take above with salt, and he's told me the guys who built the 2 door EV are a company so they haven't released any behind the scenes on the build. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Shackleton

[Shackleton]

Matey recommended this vid, and warns it's explained well but beyond boring:

And this guy... not sure if this is the best battery info vid, but in general he's one of the big DIY EV proponents:

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Shackleton

[elbekko]

2 hours ago, lo-fi said:

I definitely favour a designed-from-the-ground-up-to-be-electric something, though. The E Golf and suchlike smack of the tail (marketing department) wagging the dog (engineering) and I'd be loathed to support that kind of anti-innovation. I want new, exciting and shexshy if I'm going to buy my first ever "new" car

I'd rather have a normal looking car that happens to be electric, than some stupid thing with a billion angles that's trying too hard to look futuristic.

 

2 hours ago, lo-fi said:

By the time I finally get my hands on one I'd hope that's all been put right  

Look at the issues still plaguing the Model S... don't hold your hopes up.

 

[Cynic-al]

The big problem people who have bought ev's are having at the moment, once they've found their way around the initial concerns of range and where to charge it, is when you want to change it. If you took your batteries on lease your trying to sell a 4 year old car where the buyer has to take on a £200 a month battery lease. In that situation the buyer might as well go new so effectively your electric car has no value. 

Batteries are improving but generally Nissan usually change their lease batteries at 7 years which they claim is 80% capacity remaining. I don't know how true that is as I've been in Prius cars that are less than 10 years old where the range in city traffic is less than 2 miles, less than 10% of the claimed range when new. Nissan have a project where used batteries are put on the grid for storage of renewable energy but I don't know how that's going.

I think they are ideal in a 2 car house where 1 person uses it to commute and the other uses the regular car which is available for long trips. Not a cheap prospect though as most people in this situation would buy a much cheaper second car. If you can charge them away from your home or you have a renewable source at home then that's better. A guy at work has got a plug in hybrid 3 series which he charges at home and can just make the 15 mile commute without starting the petrol engine. He has no charge facilities at work so has to go home on petrol. He thinks the BIK saving is more than enough to cover this. 

BMW claim their fastest car 0-30 is the i3!

It's something that's coming along but I think the car manufacturers need a bit of support from infrastructure to make it realistic. I don't want to stop for a 30 minute charge every 100 miles, it would take for ever, especially if I have to start worrying about finding an empty, working charge station when the range gets down to 30 miles. 

The best thing about them though is the pre-heat. Nice toasty defrosted car to get into would sell it to me!

Edited February 8, 2018 by Cynic-al

[Bowie69]

1 hour ago, Shackleton said:

Mate I got on to a pal in the UK who maintained his Morris woody himself to ask if he used any particular forums but he said there were none and he just used a manual and the mmoc.co.uk [morris minor owners club]. Sorry.

What's the 1275 from? If you have a choice use an A+ block from a later Metro, they're ribbed [for your pleasure] on the outside so they don't flex with big [turbo] power. I always fancied the supercharger kit you can buy for the A-series though.

Search for videos on making your own batteries using 18650 cells, yeah it's more work but it's much cheaper than the monies you're quoting and you can custom build to the output you need. I'll ask my pal about it, he's encyclopaedic on the whole EV thing.

Edit: in the meantime I realise I wasn't listening properly about the batteries, so take above with salt, and he's told me the guys who built the 2 door EV are a company so they haven't released any behind the scenes on the build. 

 

1275 is from a late model Morris Ital I picked up 20 years ago that had rusted itself to destruction! It is an A+ block, so as strong as the Metro Turbo stuff, has the improved timing chain tensioner etc. Converting a transverse block to inline is not all that straightforward I understand... I was lucky to get this when I did, paid £180 for the whole car and robbed it of it's entire suspension/axle setup as well

I don't think the supercharger kits are all they are cracked up to be to be brutally honest, and whilst having said turbo, I have actually looked at the AMR500 supercharger from Aisin, 500cc, compact and great for these smaller capacity engines, mounting and attaching pipework is also easy. Also EFI via Megasquirt.

For making up my own cells, yes, harvesting old laptop batteries would be great, just time(!), which I don't have a lot of either   The controllers are better value than I thought they would be.

Yeah the two-door RRC was a Welsh company I am sure, but can't find it now.

 

[deep]

I was daydreaming a little about the Bollinger yesterday (well, it was one of those days when everyone got up my nose, so I needed somewhere positive to take my mind!).

Wheelbase half way between a proper Range Rover and a 110.  53/33/56 approach/ramp-over/departure angles.  14" minimum ground clearance (some say 15.5") on standard 33" rubber.  10" suspension travel on self-levelling hydro-pneumatic suspension (which could also allow raising/lowering?).  Computer controlled drive distribution with electronic diff-locks.  Well under two tons dry weight.  50%/50% weight distribution.  Massive torque, available at essentially zero revs.  Fantastic visibility.  All electronics in sealed chambers.  Etc. etc.  I seriously wonder if this thing will absolutely embarrass any current or previous Land Rover off-road?  It's probably just the width that could be an issue, though rarely.

With a charging station at our office (90 miles from home), this could cover almost all my work vehicle requirements and be fun at the same time.  Can't see the boss paying for one but he liked the concept.

[Daan]

9 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

to then sink £4K in lead acid batteries, or £12K in LION batteries, it makes the whole thing rather unaffordable. I would daily drive it whatever, just not ideal cost wise.

This is the big problem with EV's. and it is not just the battery cells, it is the battery management system,  the controller, the motors, and all the things you haven't thought about yet that makes this very expensive. Most of the home grown EV's use less than ideal battery packs and industrial motors, which will result in very limited use able range. A proper EV motor, like the Yasa pancake motor is about 5k and you need at least two, unless you use some kind of gearbox. Also, any EV based on a petrol or diesel car is always going to be heavier than a designed from scratch EV, due to the compromises you make, again making range worse.

Also, to make the systems efficient, generally EV's go up to 800 V system voltage, making this potentially lethal unless you have all the safety precautions in your garage.

So all of that put together make a home grown EV a non starter for me personally. That said, if my Polo needs replacing, I will be looking at an EV.

Daan

[Bowie69]

Yeah I think you may be right Daan.... Back to the supercharged 1275 I reckon

[Naks]

 

[Naks]

 

[Maverik]

Interesting design especially transmission, but its so butt ugly it will just never catch on, and it will be mega expensive so military's wont touch it.

[Snagger]

I disagree, Daan.  Some people doing stuff on the cheap are using second hand industrial motors and lead acid batteries, but that is becoming rare.  More are using purpose made equipment, and the three seemingly most popular routes are Tesla motors, Nissan Leaf (usually the entire system, pared back) or the Netgain Hyper9 AC motor with off the shelf controllers and BMS, typically with new prismatic (like Leaf) batteries that don’t use thermal management.  They’re surprisingly capable and reliable, with a conversion done at home usually coming in at about £15k.  Not cheap, and still range limited, but there are a lot of new avenues opening up in battery chemistries and construction that should dramatically improve range, charge times, longevity and cost in the next few years.  Of course, improvements will continue to come, so whenever you chose to bite the bullet, you will always be just too son for the next big thing, but you can’t defer forever.  I think within the next three years, it’ll be more viable to do one of these EV conversions than to carry out a petrol or diesel conversion, or even to do a full engine rebuild for a car to be kept for over five years.

Don Incol has done a very good Lightweight conversion near Adelaide.  London Electric Cars have done a SIIA 88 and a 90 amongst others, and plan to sell a kit for Series and Defender conversions, as do Jaunt in Australia.  They don’t have Bollinger capabilities, but they have better performance than Tdis or V8s, are easier to drive, cause less shock to the transmission and use the brakes less.  They’re range limited at the moment, but with all these new battery designs on the horizon, that won’t be an issue for long.  And I think you can forget hydrogen, with all the inherent problems that’ll bring.

[lo-fi]

Also new motor tech on the horizon:

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/19/08/11/2327244/new-electric-motor-design-massively-boosts-power-torque-and-efficiency

 

[FridgeFreezer]

3 hours ago, Maverik said:

Interesting design especially transmission, but its so butt ugly it will just never catch on, and it will be mega expensive so military's wont touch it.

I'm quite surprised they're making those portals from aluminium and using helical gears. They really don't look strong enough for heavy use at supposed rating & power of the vehicle, given that it's entirely possible to burst a Unimog portal box and those are hewn from huge lumps of very German steel.

Then again, the whole thing looks like it's going to be an expensive low-volume niche kinda thing only a step up from the average kit car. sounds like they're using the American laws on large trucks to skirt round a lot of awkward safety regs too so it's not going to turn up on European roads in any numbers.

TBH I don't really mind the thing that much - it's not a million miles off an Ibex although it makes the Ibex look like a Bugatti in terms of "styling" but at least it's about 500% less ridiculous than most of the current American pickup offerings.

[Bowie69]

Yeehaw?

 

 

 

 

But you know, they only sell by the millions and millions. 

 

[reb78]

2 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

Yeehaw?

 

 

 

 

But you know, they only sell by the millions and millions. 

 

Personally i think they are great looking trucks and having driven a few of them, they drive really well too. Completely effortless, comfortable, and suprisingly economical compared to what we on here drive! The F150 i used in the US returned nearly 30mpg (uk gallons).  

[Bowie69]

Doubtless they are a huge improvement over their predecessors, however:

[FridgeFreezer]

Jeebus Bowie, you've gotta warn us before posting graphic violence against common decency like that! I threw up in my mouth a bit before I managed to scroll past the horror

[Bowie69]

Sorry Fridge, I suspect you would prefer that I didn't post any more like this then?

 

.... and to finish with another 'meme', whatever they are:

 

[Bowie69]

The Jeep Gladiator, by contrast,is quite subtle:

 

Appreciate it isn't in the same class as the near-big-rigs above, but still, it *can* be done.

[Anderzander]

If you cover the front of that jeep up - everything to the left of the indicator...... it’s just how you imagine a new double cab defender might look.